2004 XJ8 Issues
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2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 12:30:38 PM
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Major Problems
Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2008
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My story is so long and painful that I am reluctant to post it. Non the less, the basic story is that I purchased an 04' XJ8 and it has had major issues since day one. I am including segments of email that has been exchanged between myself and various others to provide the background. Ultimately, Jag corporate has washed their hands of the problem, and the Jag dealer I bought the car from changed hands at the first of the year and the new owners say its not their problem either. Just don't know what to do now.. Some of the chronology below..
I am blanking specific name and other info for obvious reasons.
Dear Ms. xxxxxxx,
Thank you for your concern.
I live in the U.S. - the car in question is a 2004 Jaguar XJ8 - VIN SAJWAxxxxxxxxxxx which I purchased from Jaguar of Novi, (Michigan) on September 4, 2007 with 30,914 miles on the clock. Since then, I have been dealing with Jaguar of Novi and Jaguar of Troy respectively, both in Michigan. I have done my best to attempt to escalate the importance of my problems by utilizing the appropriate channels, and to that end, have filed a complaint with Jaguar customer relations. They have provided a case number to me (703xxxx), and a gentleman named xxxx (800) 452-4827 option 9 ext xxxx) has followed along during the latter part of this process.
After I received the car from its most recent 2 week visit to Jaguar of Troy, 4 of the 5 items listed on the service order remain unresolved. I limited my communication with GKN to the drive line issue, as had hoped that I would gain instruction to share with my dealer that they appear unable to collect for themselves. Another of the chronic ailments with the car is of a more critical nature, the front passenger airbag, which continues to malfunction. It is quite distressing to know that my wife is not protected by this key safety feature whenever she travels with me in this car.
However, the single most upsetting issue for me as an owner is the way that the vibration issue is being dealt with, which is to say poorly and at times, un-ethically. On my first visit to Jaguar of Novi (September 14-21), it took a fair amount of prodding to get the technician to even admit that there was a vibration, and then he gave indication that he was unsure of how to properly address the issue. This prompted me to phone the Service Manager, and ask him to follow the car through the process to insure a proper outcome the first time. Then, based on the service write up, the vibration was clearly evident and that a number of remedies were sought to eliminate the issue. They did largely relieve the vibration at 70-80 mph, but caused it to migrate to the 45-55 mph range.
My second visit (October 9-16) prompted a road test with Jaguar of Novi's lead technician (xxxx) who seemed very astute, and easily identified the new vibration issue, agreeing that it felt like drive train and not tires. He even stated that it "starts in the mid 40's and ends just about at 58 mph". He assured me that he would "work on this one himself" and that he would have no problem resolving the issue. After waiting for 3 days, I phoned in to learn of the progress. I found that - they had written it up as a noise, not a vibration, and therefore were looking for the wrong problem - and that Tony had not been working on the car himself. I transferred to xxxx to remind him that he had ridden with me and identified the issue and promised to resolve it himself, and that an improper write up should not have been a deterrent, as he already knew what the problem was. He promised to phone back after looking further into it, and when he did, said that the vibration analyzer "pointed at tires" and that he had road force balanced the tires.
I said that I thought it odd that with the same tires on the car, that the vibration had been successfully moved from a higher to lower speed range simply by manipulating the drive shaft.
We argued a bit, and finally after another couple of days, I learned that they had installed a new drive shaft and that Tony had signed off on the car as being vibration free.
I picked up the vehicle to find that it was much worse in the lower speed range, and had resumed vibrating at the higher speed.
In the interim, I contacted the service manager at Jaguar of Troy to tell them of my troubles and he encouraged me to bring in the vehicle, and that the Jaguar regional manager (Mario?) would be there to aid him in resolving the issue. He contacted me after taking a drive with (Mario?) and initially said that they "really did not feel anything" but then said that they had put the car on the vibration analyzer and found the tires to be "substantially out of balance" and that they had Road Force Balanced the tires.
So firstly, it would be difficult to "really not feel anything" with the "tires substantially out of balance" and secondly, the tires had just been balanced 2 weeks prior. For the record, the Michelin Pilots at roughly 36,000 miles are admittedly ¾ of the way through their life, but as with most Michelin tires I have had the pleasure of owning, they stay remarkably true through their entire life and are so on this vehicle. I also suggested that they temporarily swap tires with those known to be good as a means of proving the theory, and got more babble intended to side step the issue.
At the end of week one (November 5-9) I was invited to come and drive the car to demonstrate the improvement, to which there was - none.
At the end of the second week November 9-16), there appears to be a slight reduction in vibration in the upper speed range, albeit with a persistent harmonic thrumming, but the lower speed range vibration remains unchanged. In addition, I received information that they had finally uncovered the passenger airbag culprit in the form of a failed wiring harness and that all was well on that front, to which the light on the dash glows resolutely with my wife planted in her seat, assuring us that she remains, unprotected.
On a parallel path while all this has been going on, I have had communication with the general manager of Jaguar of Novi (Pete Conyers) to indicate that if all fails, I want to initiate the buy back process.
As of this week, xxxx of Jaguar customer relations assures me that either more dealer repair attempts or the buy-back process are my only courses of action, and that in either case, I am on my own to fight these battles.
As of my last discussion with xxxx xxxxxxx, I said that all I really wanted was
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 12:49:50 PM
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rscultho
Posts: 96
Joined: 12/3/2007
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Sounds like you need an attorney, a list of local newspapers and television stations, and a condensed transcript that can be sent to the newspapers and television stations. Most are just chomping at the bit to get at stories like this. I don't think Jag or those dealers want the negative publicity.
Jaguar should be CC'd on what you submit.
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 1:55:20 PM
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FactoryJaguarTech
Posts: 2972
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From reading and the billable hours comment, he/she is an attorney.
From my understanding, the lemonlaw does not cover a used vehicle. The difference in value you are stating is irrelevant as you are not purchasing a vehicle from an auction. You are geting from the dealer.
If all they are asking for is $2200 for you to get into a newer vehicle you should take it. They are not required to assist you, but they are making an attempt at getting you out of the vehicleninto another, newer one.
The money it would cost you to go to court would far surpass the $2200 that you can get out of the car and into a newer one for. It is a year newer and will have select. The select edition warranty cost $3000 so it sounds like a good deal to me.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 4:27:08 PM
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jag_genius
Posts: 1698
Joined: 6/30/2007
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sounds like the dealer is run properly.. to let a problem that isn't that difficult to fix keep going ang going.. without a engineer getting involved to actually fix it himself..
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 5:13:25 PM
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FactoryJaguarTech
Posts: 2972
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I would have swapped tires first thing from known good car. Driveshaft balancer would have been next. It has hard to even begin to think about what it is without driving it. However like you said Genius....well run place....lol
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 6:37:11 PM
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Major Problems
Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2008
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I (he) am not an attorney, and the $2,200 may seem like a good deal except that at one point they made the offer to replace the car and then retracted it, and the vehicle they were planning to swap me into did not have the select warranty and also has 41k miles on it.
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 6:46:17 PM
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Major Problems
Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2008
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The car has brand new Michelin Pilots on it, and the driveshaft balancer has been on the car at least 3 different times - an engineer did come from Jag New Jersey to work on the car the last time it was in and as I stated earlier, the vibration is now worse. How can this be that difficult of an issue? The drive is really ruined by this problem. And the airbag issue is a problem as well.
More importantly, why with any other purchase can you take the item back without any questions for minor complaints, and yet with this (premium) product after the serious run around and damn near begging them to do somthing that they end up telling me that the problem is fixed and to go away?
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 7:01:52 PM
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FactoryJaguarTech
Posts: 2972
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Do you have a question that we can help you with? I know you are frustrated, but you are venting. I need to know what you need help with precisley.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/25/2008 10:26:46 PM
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h20boy
Posts: 1009
Joined: 3/29/2007
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If I were you, I would hire an attorney to submit a counter-offer (maybe $1500, and add Select to the replacement vehicle, give other color options and a 'range' of acceptable mileage...as a compromise) back to your dealer, or the most influencial person you have had correspondence with. That may cost you a few hundred dollars, but will also give the impression that you are very serious about
a) getting out of your vehicle based on safety related issues and being under warranty...should be the respnsibility of the dealer.
b) the impression of taking the case to court (civil I believe, though I am no attorney, but happily have a high billable rate)
You have been very courteous, respectful, and polite in your written correspondence (albeit not-so-much on the phone, but you have apologized, which is admirable), and all I can hope for is that you have taken good notes, names, dates, etc, which will help support your timeline of facts. It seems you have, and that is good.
One other option is to drive the vehicle to another Jag dealer for a fresh perspective (don't tell them it is in dispute at Troy and other dealer, but most likely, it's been redflagged in the database anyway (any truth to that one FJT?)...perhaps the third one will give you a different outcome, as we have seen numerous times from member experiences, that each dealer and service department can provide customer service that is literally night-and-day in comparison.
Man, I wish you luck...and keep us updated on the soap opera you like to call your life.
It also seems that this is now become a matter of principle now as opposed to a final resolution, even if it costs you just a bit more to start fresh... clean slate so to speak. I dont' know if this is the time to 'swallow your pride' and simply make a deal. Taking a car back into inventory, issuing a refund, etc IS a big deal to a dealer.
< Message edited by h20boy -- 2/25/2008 10:32:48 PM >
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RE: 2004 XJ8 Issues - 2/26/2008 2:45:49 AM
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FactoryJaguarTech
Posts: 2972
Joined: 1/6/2008
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That is why it is harder to get a car taken back than say a cd. The dollar values are huge and would put dealers and some nanufacturers out of business. Hence the lemon law.
It will be easy enough to have another dealer look at the car, but for someone dead set in getting out of it, why bother.
Take the deal on the condition that they add select edition to the vehicle at no cost to you. If the car is at the dealer it can be done.
H2oboy, they don't flag the cars as you implied. The dealers are not linked, but they are all linked to jag. No flagging a vehicle.
As I said, no one is required to take thisvehicle back, so if you want out of it so bad, take the deal before it is withdrawn completley. Just ask for the select.
< Message edited by FactoryJaguarTech -- 2/26/2008 2:54:07 AM >
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!
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