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Serious warning about the 2.7 diesel engine.
This will apply to only a few here as there aren't many diesel owners on this site.
If you find when checking the engine oil regularly as you should, that the level on the dipstick seems to be RISING contrary to logic, be very cautious about driving it until you've made some checks. The DPF/diesel particulate filter sytem together with the EGR/exhaust gas recycling system can be operating in a dangerous mode. Very short journeys where the automatic DPF regeneration system is never allowed to fully regenerate and get the exhaust to 600*C (and therefore repetitive attempts by the ECU to do so) may produce pooling of diesel fuel in the inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos. Far too much diesel is injected under these conditions which washes down the cylinder walls in to the engine sump, hence the rising level of oil on the dipstick. There will be stored ercos in the ECU memory. Under conditions like this, a high speed run may result in the car accelerating uncontrollably, which cannot be stopped even by switching off the engine. The engine starts to consume its own engine oil as a kind of fuel. It continues to rev. at the valvebounce limit until it destroys itself, and uses all the engine oil. The only way to stop a manual box version is to stall the engine in top gear plus force braking. The automatic version cannot be stopped at all. These circumstances have been known in the Renault megane 1.5dCi and other models using that engine. It was caused by a faulty EGR valve. This also caused turbo bearing failure in some cases, and if the valve wasn't replaced, the new turbo would also fail after a few miles. So if you have a diesel Jag., check the engine oil level on the dipstick frequently, especially if you do many short runs. Leedsman. |
I have read about this syndrome, which is found in Europe where there are now so many diesel cars running around. Indeed it was in the Honest John column in motoring section of the the Saturday Daily Telegraph newspaper I read it.
Only thing I am not clear about is this; how does the oil get into the combustion chamber ? I thought there had to be a worn-out oil seal in the turbocharger as well to allow the diesel-diluted oil into the inlet manifold. |
The DPF won't even attempt to regen unless the engine is up to temp and numerous others parameters are met.When servicing simply don't fill the oil beyond half way between the min and max to allow for oil dilution.Oil dilution and DPF regen is covered in Jags mechanics manual and quoted on the UK forum many times.If the engine doesn't do long enough journeys eventually the DPF will fill to around 70% of capacity at which point an amber warning'DPF Full--see handbook' alert will appear on the dash. All that is then required is a short run at at least 48kmh for up to 20 mins to clear the alert. If the run isn't carried out eventually the alert will turn from amber to red which will then require a forced regen either with Mongoose software (dealer level software costs £50 from uobdii.com) or at a dealer/specialist).
I do very short journeys daily and in nearly 4 yrs of ownership have had the amber alert once which cleared within 5 mins once at 48kmh. |
Hi, 2.7 diesel, has anybody got the details for head gasket thickness on these engines, I have seen the detail using DTI, but cannot remember where, not in the manual.
it gives the thickness of the gasket against the protrusion of the piston out of the block. Many thanks |
Originally Posted by Leedsman
(Post 299673)
may produce pooling of diesel fuel in the inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos.
Leedsman. |
After an engine scare he sold his car and left the site years ago...
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Mine is an early diesel, so I do not think it has the DPF. My understanding is that if the exhaust tips point down there is not DPF.
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Particulate filter
I have a 2007 diesel S-type but had the particulate filter removed immediately after buying in 2007 as it affects economy. I also had the car chipped for more bhp. Yes know its illegal but no MOT garage is going to cut open your exhaust to check. My emissions are low as I use top grade diesel and my mpg never drops under 30 mpg. For me this car is one of the best cars I have owned.
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They won't be low: your PM and NOx will be bad.
Just the CO2 will be fairly low but then it would be as good or better if you had not broken the law. The PM and NOx from diesels are why our cities have terrible air pollution, in many cases beyond the limits set. It can only be a matter of time before PM and NOx tests are added to the MoT and you can expect your car will then fail. |
Jaguar XJ 2.7 Diesel TVi 2007
Originally Posted by Ricky302
(Post 1226021)
Really? since diesel is injected directly into the cylinders how does it get into the 'inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos'
enlighten me ? Could be as simple as I`ve pressed a wrong button !! ie Cruise control ! Delighted with this car only 22,000 on the clock. One owner from new ! |
Not going to be a button press. It's got a fault. No US/Canada owners as diesel not sold there - try UK forum.
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aron
hi i got jaguar XF LUXURY V6 2.7d i was driving at motorway and i heard a noise from the engine and lost half of the power the car drive but noise come from engine i stopt and got little lake oile and smoke i ask some one and told me engine is broke . on dashboard not showing nothing wrong with engine .do u think is the tube of the turbo?
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engine swapping,
Originally Posted by Leedsman
(Post 299673)
This will apply to only a few here as there aren't many diesel owners on this site.
If you find when checking the engine oil regularly as you should, that the level on the dipstick seems to be RISING contrary to logic, be very cautious about driving it until you've made some checks. The DPF/diesel particulate filter sytem together with the EGR/exhaust gas recycling system can be operating in a dangerous mode. Very short journeys where the automatic DPF regeneration system is never allowed to fully regenerate and get the exhaust to 600*C (and therefore repetitive attempts by the ECU to do so) may produce pooling of diesel fuel in the inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos. Far too much diesel is injected under these conditions which washes down the cylinder walls in to the engine sump, hence the rising level of oil on the dipstick. There will be stored ercos in the ECU memory. Under conditions like this, a high speed run may result in the car accelerating uncontrollably, which cannot be stopped even by switching off the engine. The engine starts to consume its own engine oil as a kind of fuel. It continues to rev. at the valvebounce limit until it destroys itself, and uses all the engine oil. The only way to stop a manual box version is to stall the engine in top gear plus force braking. The automatic version cannot be stopped at all. These circumstances have been known in the Renault megane 1.5dCi and other models using that engine. It was caused by a faulty EGR valve. This also caused turbo bearing failure in some cases, and if the valve wasn't replaced, the new turbo would also fail after a few miles. So if you have a diesel Jag., check the engine oil level on the dipstick frequently, especially if you do many short runs. Leedsman. |
Originally Posted by Leedsman
(Post 299673)
This will apply to only a few here as there aren't many diesel owners on this site.
If you find when checking the engine oil regularly as you should, that the level on the dipstick seems to be RISING contrary to logic, be very cautious about driving it until you've made some checks. The DPF/diesel particulate filter sytem together with the EGR/exhaust gas recycling system can be operating in a dangerous mode. Very short journeys where the automatic DPF regeneration system is never allowed to fully regenerate and get the exhaust to 600*C (and therefore repetitive attempts by the ECU to do so) may produce pooling of diesel fuel in the inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos. Far too much diesel is injected under these conditions which washes down the cylinder walls in to the engine sump, hence the rising level of oil on the dipstick. There will be stored ercos in the ECU memory. Under conditions like this, a high speed run may result in the car accelerating uncontrollably, which cannot be stopped even by switching off the engine. The engine starts to consume its own engine oil as a kind of fuel. It continues to rev. at the valvebounce limit until it destroys itself, and uses all the engine oil. The only way to stop a manual box version is to stall the engine in top gear plus force braking. The automatic version cannot be stopped at all. These circumstances have been known in the Renault megane 1.5dCi and other models using that engine. It was caused by a faulty EGR valve. This also caused turbo bearing failure in some cases, and if the valve wasn't replaced, the new turbo would also fail after a few miles. So if you have a diesel Jag., check the engine oil level on the dipstick frequently, especially if you do many short runs. Leedsman. |
Had a chiptuned golf 3 tdi and when the when the hot oil from the oilpan is beeing sucked in through the broken turbo to the pistons the car suddenly has mo more 110hp or after chip 140hp but a rather frightening 200 hp wich wont stop pulling and reving
I was on a rather narrow road with ditches left and right and patches of ice so stalling the engine with the brakes in 3 gear was very tricky. imagine a 2,7 with already 205 hp and around 500nm of torque becoming a rocket in an automatic going into kickdown . |
A good question - where does the oil/diesel come from since when this happens - the engine revs continue rising out of conroll and continues to feed on something till it destroys itself.
I came across this instance on a early first generation Golf 1.5 diesel. No turbo. Many yeas ago. Once you dilute the engine oil with diesel - the viscosity especially when the engine oil reaches operaing high temperature, goes down signicicantly! Try diluting half a glass of 5/40 hot oil with 1/4 glass fiesel - and you will see for yoursleves. Viscosity is the liquid resistance to move and pass through whatever, under an upplied force. The viscosity becomes closer to viscosity of water - it can move much easier through much smaller tiny crevice. So what happens is - initially yes, the engine feeds off and goes to high revs on the extra diesel that was injected and not burned out. But as soon as it reaches high reves, the piston that is on suction stroke would have enough suction power to starts sucking the low viscosity dilued diesel via the piston rings - and would not stop untill the diluted diese/engine oil mixture finishes! In the case of early first gen golf diesel cars, the ring used to wear out much faster than is normally expected. And so the engine would suck oil via the rings and rev out of control. All of these cars eventually had their rings replaced with the once recommended. You have two options: the first is illegal. 1. Leave the DPF in its place but remove its contents without leaving any fingerprintes and keep your mouth shut. I know of no car that failed the MOT when a DPF is removes professionally enough leaving no trace. OR - 2. Install an air shut off valve between the ait cleaner and the air inlet to provide emergency overspeed shutdown protection, the most effective way of preventing a runaway situation ON ANY DIESEL ENGINE. The valves completely block the engine air intake system, cutting off an uncontrolled external fuel source by shutting the air required to keep the engine running. These engines are very good and reliable engines. Mine has over 161,000 miles - I replace the water every 3 years - oil (long life only and make sure it is since some oil viscosity breacks down much earlier than 5000 miles) every 5000 - cam belt, waterpump, all ensioners and all auxiliary belts including the one a the reat at 100K. And it still runs like a bullet. THERE ARE SOME THINGS YOU CAN DO TODAY TOO TO HELP THE DPF. 1. Use only the oil which is recommended by Jaguar to day! These oils were not available 1995 to 2006 which is a low SAP oil which is specifically designed to be low in Sulphated Ash. This is a by-product of diesel combustion that causes the DPF mesh” to become be blocked. 2. Over time EGR valves can become blocked with the soot and carbon which they are designed to recirculate. This in turn can cause the device to stick open (you should get a awrning light) but it often keeps open for longer than it should(with may no trigger a warnin) and this increases particulates, soot and carbon to to be fed back into the engine. And that poor DPF would need to block loads more. So before you replace any DPF - you have to make sure the EGR is not partially clogged or sticking sometimes. |
Where does the diesel cme from when an engine runs off out of control
A good question which one has asked is - where does the oil/diesel come from since when this happens - the engine revs continue rising out of conroll and continues to feed on something till it destroys itself.
I came across this instance on a early first generation Golf 1.5 diesel. No turbo. Many yeas ago. Once you dilute the engine oil with diesel - the viscosity especially when the engine oil reaches operaing high temperature, goes down signicicantly! Try diluting half a glass of 5/40 hot oil with 1/4 glass fiesel - and you will see for yoursleves. Viscosity is the liquid resistance to move and pass through whatever, under an upplied force. The viscosity becomes closer to viscosity of water - it can move much easier through much smaller tiny crevice. So what happens is - initially yes, the engine feeds off and goes to high revs on the extra diesel that was injected and not burned out. But as soon as it reaches high reves, the piston that is on suction stroke would have enough suction power to starts sucking the low viscosity dilued diesel via the piston rings - and would not stop untill the diluted diese/engine oil mixture finishes! In the case of early first gen golf diesel cars, the ring used to wear out much faster than is normally expected. And so the engine would suck oil via the rings and rev out of control. All of these cars eventually had their rings replaced with the once recommended. You have two options: The first is illegal even though to date - you will not fail your MOT - we all know it - remove the DPF professionally enough leaving no trace. OR - 2. Install an air shut off valve between the ait cleaner and the air inlet to provide emergency overspeed shutdown protection, the most effective way of preventing a runaway situation ON ANY DIESEL ENGINE. The valves completely block the engine air intake system, cutting off an uncontrolled external fuel source by shutting the air required to keep the engine running. These engines are very good and reliable engines. Mine has over 160,000 miles. THERE ARE SOME THINGS YOU CAN DO TODAY TOO TO HELP THE DPF. 1. Use only the oil which is recommended by Jaguar to day, not the one on 1990 /2006! These oils were not available 1995 to 2006 which is a low SAP oil which is specifically designed to be low in Sulphated Ash. This is a by-product of diesel combustion that causes the DPF mesh to become blocked. 2. Over time EGR valves can become blocked with the soot and carbon which they are designed to recirculate. This in turn can cause the device to stick open (you should get a awrning light) but it often keeps open for longer than it should(with may no trigger a warnin) and this increases particulates, soot and carbon to to be fed back into the engine. And that poor DPF would need to block loads more. Note: So before you replace any DPF - you have to make sure the EGR is not partially clogged or sticking. |
Originally Posted by Ricky302
(Post 1226021)
Really? since diesel is injected directly into the cylinders how does it get into the 'inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos'
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Originally Posted by Ricky302
(Post 1226021)
Really? since diesel is injected directly into the cylinders how does it get into the 'inlet areas, esp the intercooler and around the turbos'
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