Are F-Types Illegal in California?
#21
01-28-2019, 04:03 AM
Ladies,
Just use a bit of discretion. Avoid downshifting to 2nd gear at 60 mph in front of a hospital. Here in the People’s County of Montgomery Maryland, the noise is limited to 55 dB at night as observed at the property line in residential areas (65 commercial). State law specifies 90 dB anywhere. When you see the gendarmes out there with the boom mike, don’t be gettin’ into the throttle. This is not an issue, Chicken Little
Just use a bit of discretion. Avoid downshifting to 2nd gear at 60 mph in front of a hospital. Here in the People’s County of Montgomery Maryland, the noise is limited to 55 dB at night as observed at the property line in residential areas (65 commercial). State law specifies 90 dB anywhere. When you see the gendarmes out there with the boom mike, don’t be gettin’ into the throttle. This is not an issue, Chicken Little
From the official CA Exaust Noise Referee website (referee centers are located "within state certified community colleges, " so good luck with that):
....
What happens if I get ticket for too loud exhaust?
If your vehicle exhaust is too loud, you will be ordered to take it to an official Referee Center – Bureau of Automotive Repair Smog Check Referee Program.- First step of this process is to make your vehicle’s exhaust compliant with laws.
- Next, schedule an appointment with California Referee Center. You will need your traffic ticket, and vehicle registration information for this.
- At this point the Referee Center will conduct an exhaust noise test:
- If Referee Center’s test determines your vehicle is still not within legal noise limits, you will be required to repair it before attempting another test.
- If your vehicle is under 95 dB, you will be issued a “Certificate of Compliance”. This certificate must be presented in traffic court.
There will be financial costs incurred even if your vehicle is compliant. It’s best to avoid getting a traffic ticket altogether. In case the Referee Center determines your vehicle’s exhaust noise is not over the legal limit, the court can dismiss your citation.
How much are exhaust ticket fees?
Penalties for illegal exhaust depend on type of exhaust modifications and your location. Minimum fine for a first conviction is $25, with a total fee of $193. Fees can climb up to $1,105 in some cases.You can view exact fines and penalties for unlawful exhaust modifications in California’s Uniform Bail and Penalty Schedules(PDF document; see page 26).
Are mufflers required in California?
California Vehicle Code 27150. (a) requires all vehicles to be equipped with a muffler at all times. If you can keep your vehicle’s exhaust noise low enough you may be able to avoid attention from police. However, if you do receive a ticket you will be required to install a muffler before your vehicle can be compliant with California exhaust laws.From the CA Referee website:
How loud is 95 decibels?
For comparison, vacuum cleaners or chainsaws operate at about 70 dB. 95 db is an approximate sound of:- a lawn mower
- the inside of a subway car
- plane flyover at 1000 feet
- food blender less than 3 feet away
- car horn at 10 feet
Noise meters for phones are generally not very accurate, but can be helpful in determining approximate noise levels. For accurate noise level meter you can see BAFX Decibel Meter on Amazon. Unfortunately it costs $20, but it’s a small price to pay for avoiding a $1000 traffic ticket.
Last edited by JIMLIGHTA; 01-28-2019 at 04:37 AM.
#22
01-28-2019, 05:43 AM
Wow. The country is falling apart and they waste time and taxpayer $$ on this nonsense.
If the factory exhaust system is operational and intact, that should be the end of it. All manufacturers comply with federal law and EPA standards.
But no,the nanny state knows better and will force you to do what they deem good for you.
If the factory exhaust system is operational and intact, that should be the end of it. All manufacturers comply with federal law and EPA standards.
But no,the nanny state knows better and will force you to do what they deem good for you.
#23
01-28-2019, 07:27 AM
First, CA implemented the "Emissions Referee" and now you have "Noise Referees." If you let this clamp-down go, you'll have the "Smell Referee" and eventually the "Pursuit of Happiness and Fun Referee."
Bottomline: the anti-ICE actists are far more effective than auto enthusiasts. So say goodbye to cars that green-up a plants with life-essential CO2, as long the EV cult lives in extreme fear of the ICE, even if that turns out to be a wrong concern.
I know I make light of the "green" movement irrationally lashing out at everything green to assuage their abject terror of future air conditioning bills, but they are effectively ruining our the automarket with this barrage of absurd anti-ICE regulations, so auto enthusiasts better wake-up soon.
Last edited by JIMLIGHTA; 01-28-2019 at 07:33 AM.
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BS Alarm (02-12-2019)
#24
01-28-2019, 07:32 AM
Veteran Member
#28
01-28-2019, 10:23 AM
#29
01-28-2019, 10:29 AM
Bingo. The ol' noise ordinance has been there for over 40 years. We are also "required" to run front plates, can't tint our side windows to any reasonable level and the speed limit is 70 on I-5. I haven't run a front plate this century, my side windows are tinted to 30% and I have had CHP flash their lights on me to move over when I had the cruise control at about 80 mph.
#31
01-28-2019, 02:52 PM
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DPelletier (01-29-2019)
#33
01-28-2019, 04:18 PM
What changed is that as of January 1st 2019, if you get cited for noise, using the cops ears only, you have to get through the referee's test or you cannot register your car.
#36
01-28-2019, 06:16 PM
How did Californians let this go so far into the gutter without a fight? And sadly, as the world's biggest former-sports car market goes, we all go.
#37
01-28-2019, 08:10 PM
#38
01-29-2019, 12:04 AM
#39
01-29-2019, 12:39 AM
Is this for real??
I live in California & I have never heard of anyone getting a ticket on a stock car for loud exhaust. I think that would get thrown out of court in a heartbeat. The State of California signed off on the car as meeting all expectations or else it wouldn’t be on the road. I see F types every day out here. If anyone would get targeted it would be the younger guys with the “rice burners” that put the loud exhaust on that just sounds awful. This is one messed up state though, if someone did get screwed it wouldn’t shock me.
#40
01-29-2019, 02:39 AM
Now the new law is quite confusing as written, but the operative verb in the legal requirement for citation is "modified".
Found this thread pasted below in another forum that is directly on point. Sorry for the length, but poster "jps" is an attorney that clearly has dissected this new law and has figured out the lack of applicability to vehicles with unmodified exhaust... If you happen to get cited by an officer, take your car to the dealer first, and have them certify or otherwise put in writing that your vehicles' exhaust system is as designed and manufactured by Jaguar for sale in California; that no modifications have been made to the exhaust system; and the stock exhaust indeed contains a muffler and the entire system is in excellent working order.
Internet_Ghost 2 months ago
You need to read the statute carefully. It doesn't just include modified exhaust systems. It also includes any system that exceeds a certain noise limit.
“No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200).
You need to find out if your exhaust violates those particular statute sections.
jps_ 2 months ago
Not to be picky, but it appears to me that the statute first requires a person to modify the exhaust system (literally the first seven words), all the rest are the conditions that such modification must not cause.
Isn't the burden on the state to prove that the exhaust has been modified? If he brings certification from a competent mechanic that it hasn't been modified, and the state brings nothing but the officer's inexpert opinion, I would think the state would fail its burden.
Internet_Ghost 2 months ago
“Not to be picky, but it appears to me that the statute first requires a person to modify the exhaust system (literally the first seven words), all the rest are the conditions that such modification must not cause.”
But the portion of the statute I highlighted shows that there is a standard level of noise that each vehicle must be below depending on the type of the vehicle. I haven't gone searching through the statutes, but most likely there's another statute it violates rather than the modification statute which is why I told OP he needs to check to see if his exhaust violates those particular statute sections. It's not uncommon to be written up for the wrong statute section but another one apply.
jps_ 2 months ago
Just for giggles (because it's Sunday), I did look up the statutes. OP could be cited by 27150 or 27151. A citation under 50 can be neutered by evidence that OP did not make any modifications. 51 requires an adequate muffler, properly maintained. In my opinion a mechanic's certificate that the exhaust is factory equipped and functioning properly should be sufficient to rebut the charge.
jps_ 2 months ago
Again, I'm going to disagree. The state's claim must then be that a stock car exceeds the specification. The burden of proof for that claim still rests on the state. A trier of fact can take notice that cars manufactured for sale in the US must demonstrate that they meet these standards, otherwise they are not allowed for sale. Therefore there is a rebuttable presumption that as long as the car is 'as manufactured', it meets the specifications.The state would need to bring evidence that the noise levels were in fact exceeded. I strongly doubt this evidence exists. "It was very loud" is unlikely to be as compelling as "Here is a certification from the dealership that the exhaust is original and functioning according to manufacturer's specifications".
Internet_Ghost 2 months ago
There is no such rule that makes that a rebuttable presumption. It’s just the standard weighing of the evidence.
jps_ 2 months ago
I said specifically that the trier of fact can take notice, a rule is not required. If such notice is taken, a vehicle that is operating according to a manufacturer's specifications could be presumed to be operating within the proscribed limits, which presumption could be defeated with evidence to the contrary... should such evidence exist. We can disagree whether a mechanic's certification versus a police officer's untrained ear is sufficient. The point is that once it gets arguable, the case does not hinge on a balance of probabilities, but on reasonable doubt. It is entirely reasonable that a perfectly functioning stock exhaust is functioning close enough to, but not beyond, the legal limit that an officer's untrained ear may mistake it for "too loud".
Internet_Ghost 2 months ago
I don’t even know what you’re arguing anymore because you’re all over the board. I said getting a mechanic to specifically test his vehicle was the best defense he could have many posts ago.
jps_ 2 months ago
I told OP he needs to check to see if his exhaust violates those particular statute sections.And I am disagreeing. Specifically, Article 2.5 commencing with section 27200 requires a measurement of sound level at 50' from the center line of travel. Presumably the car is manufactured after 1985 and the limit is 80 db. This is not an uncomplicated measurement, and will undoubtedly be expensive. OP can't just use some App on his iphone, and there are very few garages that measure sound levels to 0.1 db.I am suggesting that he just gets a mechanic to certify that the exhaust is factory installed (neutering the specific charge leveled against him that he modified the exhaust), and functioning properly (defending against the officer's untrained inexpert opinion that it fails the test cited above), on the reasonable assumption that a device working to specification is also within specifications mandated for its use and sale, leaving it to the state to prove that it doesn't.
Internet_Ghost 2 months ago
How is that any different from what i’ve said? You can presume all you want, but the judge doesn’t have to take that into consideration. They have to take into consideration that you have specific evidence that the car alleged to be in violation isn’t in violation.
jps_ 2 months ago
Sigh... How is that any different from what i’ve said?You suggested to measure sound from the muffler is in accordance with a specification. I am suggesting to state that the muffler is original, and not defective. Measurement of sound requires a bay of at least 100 feet wide with non-reflecting walls in which the sound level emitted by the vehicle can be measured with reasonable precision. There are probably a handful of labs in all of California equipped to do what you suggest.Any Fiat dealer in California can do what I suggest. the judge doesn’t have to take that into consideration. They have to take into consideration that you have specific evidence that the car alleged to be in violation isn’t in violation. A mechanic's statement that a factory installed device is original, and is not defective is evidence that the device is operating within noise limits that are part of its design specification. Although not direct. Judges are not idiots. When faced with the fact that OP is not guilty of modification, the '51 charge on its face must fail. This leaves only your worry that OP could be found guilty of '50 (proper maintenance), which a mechanic's statement of fit function would also defend adequately. OP cannot be charged with manufacturing a vehicle improperly. So yes, I am not at all recommending that OP attempt to measure the actual sound emitted by his muffler. I think that's an overcautious recommendation. It will of course suffice, just like swatting a fly with a hammer will also suffice. It just isn't necessary to use the whole hammer when a piece of paper will do.
Swagsturbate 2 months ago
Completely agree, which is why Fiat does it's own due dilligence by decibel testing the car before selling it to the public.A manufacturer wouldn't sell a car that violates state law in that state before ensuring it met all legal requirements to be driven/sold in that state.
