I have a 2017 SVR and I need some advice regarding a brake fluid change I've undertaken.

I committed a cardinal sin while doing the bleed and I let the master cylinder run dry during the job, allowing a bunch of air to get sucked in.

Long story short, I used a power bleeder to cycle new fluid into the line and have bled all calipers multiple times and in the correct order. I'm at a point now where nothing but brake fluid comes out when I bleed the line, there is no air present.

Still, I cannot get the brake pedal rock hard after pumping it a few times (with the ignition off). It's at about 80% firmness and enough to drive on (I test drove it without any issues), but obviously not optimal. The brake pedal in my Range Rover gets rock hard after a few pumps.

What am I missing? Do I need to buy a diagnostic tool to cycle the ABS module and bleed again? That seems to be the only thing I haven't done yet. Should I just continue to bleed and bleed? All the fluid in the lines is now new, so I'm just bleeding, emptying the fluid back into the power bleeder and then bleeding again, recycling the same new fluid over and over.

Appreciate any thoughts, thank you.

 

How about the old school way of doing brake fluid change. Someone pumping the brake while you bleed all 4

 

This is what I used, worked great to remove the last bit of air bubbles after a proper flush.

 

I have another car with the same style of multi-piston caliper shown in your other post (short brake line going UNDER the caliper assy to connect front & rear parts)

MANY owners have issues bleeding that type of caliper. Often, what they are forced to do is un-bolt to caliper with the brake lines still connected, and bleed with the caliper hanging upside-down. The old trick of tapping the line/caliper which bleeding (to dispel bubbles) helps, too.

Good Luck!

 

Did you bleed the master cylinder itself? And definitely use a second person on the pedal....ditch the power bleeder for this...

 

I did that first, before I used the power bleeder. I suppose I could try it again.

I might try this out if I can't get anything else to work, I've never heard of a reverse bleeder. Interesting.

How might I bleed the master cylinder itself? The master cylinder does have a nipple protected by a cap that is removable and when the cap is removed, fluid comes out. Is that what you mean?

 

I need to look at the MC to answer that for sure but on other cars to bleed it you would have someone put pressure on the brake and then loosen the big nut on the side of the cylinder for a second to let air out and then quickly tighten as soon as the pedal starts to bottom out.

 

another trick is to have the 'helper' who presses the brake pedal do at least ONE QUICK PUMP. The high velocity will often expel air.

If you do have someone pumping the pedal, position a piece of 2x4 under the brake pedal so as not to 'bottom' it out. Oh yeah...remove the blocker before driving the car... <<BLUSH>>

 

You need to cycle the ABS pump; no way around that. The good news is with that year of a car (2017, right?), almost any decent scanner has that service function; just make sure Jaguar is covered, and it should work on your car (by now, up to 2020s are included). I have an iCarSoft CR Pro that has Jaguar, and most other brands; it worked perfectly on our company 2018 Porsche Macan, including coding a new battery, and resetting the maintenance warning. It cost $200, I think, but money well spent. Anyway, if you cannot find the exact procedure how to bleed the system when activating the ABS pump, just do all 4 wheels again after cycling it, once the air is released out of the pump. And next time never go lower than the 'MIN' mark. I also did that mistake once, and unfortunately, it was on an old BMW bike with servo brakes, which had 14 valves to bleed, so consider yourself lucky. Ha ha. By the way, I use a manual vacuum pump now, which extracts much slower, so almost no risk to suck more fluid than you want, at least if you're paying attention. Good luck.

 

Yes you need to use a diagnostic instructions. Never quite sure why people insist on changing brake fluid when the brakes are working fine. Dealers only do it because they can charge for it.

 

Because, brake fluid absorbs moisture, and that can rust-out your brake lines FROM THE INSIDE. I know of TWO friends who stomped on their brakes and 'broke' brake lines that looked OK on the outside.

Some cars use more modern brake line material like copper-nickel, not sure about JLR..


https://bludotinc.com/why-copper-nic...l-brake-lines/

 

The moisture that brake fluid naturally absorbs over time reduces the boiling point of the fluid, which can lead to premature fading. Many HPDE / Track Day groups require annual brake fluid changes as a matter of safety.

This is from the Porsche Club of America track day inspection form:

 

The ABS section of the brakes will NOT have any air in it. Unless you had air in the brake system and then went and activated the ABS so you can feel the pulsing in the brake pedal. This is almost impossible because if you do have air the brake pedal will be spongy and you can't get the wheels to skid so no ABS activation. You do want to cycle the ABS because that fluid will not be changed when doing a conventional brake fluid change. So it will have moisture in it that should be cycled out.

Depending on your car I sometimes use the ABS pump to complete the bleeding. Open the bleed port at the wheel and run the ABS pump from your scanner until the new clean fluid comes out. Not sure if Jaguar's SDD will allow this or not but it is real handy!
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This. Brake fluid is hygroscopic. It needs to be changed every three years regardless of mileage.

 

My independent tests the fluid and changes it when it becomes necessary.

 

Changing fluid in an ABS car requires a high pressure power bleeder, as you need to force fluid through the ABS valves. That is why you have spongy brakes is you got fluid only part way through the ABS module, thus getting air into your system.
Basically, you got new fluid into the top of the ABS and a little past the ABS and old fluid and air on the other side of the valves, as modern ABS uses 50-70 psi of pressure to move fluid, your bleeder is probably doing 15-25.
To compensate, bleed the brakes with engine running and someone standing on the brake pedal and have them doing this the whole time.

 

You can't force fluid in to the ABS. The ABS has a separate small amount of brake fluid stored under high pressure. The valves are operated electrically. That's why conventional or power bleeding can't change the fluid trapped in the ABS. Unless you can manually actuate the ABS valves which the high end scanners can do there is no way to change that small amount of fluid.

Of course since it is a small amount does it really matter? I don't know but would like to change all the brake fluid I can.
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You did not read everything or misunderstood, I said to have the engine running and brakes applied, thus activating the ABS and yes, you can force fluid through the ABS.

 

The bleeders are great to just run new fluid through the system. With your situation you will need the pressure of a manual bleed. I use a clear hose over the bleeder, into a soda bottle. Put a little fluid in the bottle and the hose in the fluid and tie wrap it. You can then start in the farthest one and move to the shortest quickly. Pump away! And as others have noted make sure the master is done. I have CC and bleed every 15K miles. The Brembo Calipers are really easy. Good Luck!

 

No you can't force brake fluid thru the ABS reservoir without activating the ABS. Either with a scan tool or driving the car and slamming on the brakes so the brake pedal pulses. The engine running and pushing on the brake pedal does NOT activate the ABS system.
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