I havent driven the iPace though I am told by those who have it is a lot of fun. Personally I'd be a lot more interested if it had paddles to mimic a gearbox, the concept of one forward and one backward gear reminds me overmuch of a ride on mower.

An electric car would suit me. We have a big solar unit on the house, it generates 60kwH plus a day in summer, maybe 30kwH a day in winter and is supported by a decent battery, so once I got the schedule right (I'd have to leave that car home one day a week) it'd cost me next to nothing to run it. But at the moment I'd only pay $2K a year for petrol, so I'd buy electric if the price was the same as ICE, not more, given the cost of replacing batteries after 10 years (est $10K), and also I'd actually want to drive it, and at the moment engine note and a gearbox are big requirements for me, and flashy looks.

 

A couple of things came to mind as I read this observation about Tesla's Reno facility: Government subsidies and future battery disposal concerns.

 

The Rivian is for sure an amazing truck/SUV, but is the Tesla Model S an amazing sedan? That probably depends on who you ask. For commuters and those that would be comparing it to a base E-Class or 5 Series -- yes, the Model S is probably preferred. Would I rather have a P100S etc, over an E63 AMG or S63 AMG? No, no way.

 

I'm in Southern Nev so Reno is not my fave. But the subsidies have paid off big time ,way ahead on jobs and many other companies have located to be near it. Other than distribution Nev has hard time diversifiying from gaming. I wish it had been in Clark county where most of Nevada lives since we are the one paying for it.

 

​​​​​It seems the only effective political lobby is cheap labor. I guess big business owns the government.

 

The failure of Tesla wasn't about performance or poor quality, it was about mass subsidies still falling short of the expensive overall business case for electric. Namely, expensive, relatively short lived batteries.

Even the Prius, a 100% gasoline car, not exactly a true hybrid, fails without subsidies. Current Prius trade-in value is 30% of retail at the 2 year point. The market rejects the business case for big batteries at every turn. And thats based on charging cost before EVs seriously drive up home utility prices.

​​​​​​The Leaf, the only mildly successful EV, has the worst resale value in automotive history.

 

I don't own any electric cars, but still think that EV subsidies are money well-spent. EV technology needs to start somewhere, and these are growing pains and not terminal illness. If Tesla fails, so be it, someone else will come up with a better and cheaper EV. Batteries and charging technology will inevitably get better and cheaper with time. In 10 years EVs will become mainstream, in 20 years ICE will become undesirable purely on merits of EV, and in 40 years ICE will be seen as steam locomotives - curious anachronism.

My grandfather told me a stories of carbide-based headlamps on cars when he was young. Then electric lamps came to replace them. Early electric lamps where powered by dynamo and were not great, but brighter than carbide lamps. Then eventually alternators came out and the problem of electric lamps was solved. We are right now with EVs and charging in dynamo stage, couple breakthroughs and you will wander why you put up with oil changes and how you lived before instant torque of electric motor was a thing.

 

Interestingly, Porsche was the first manufacturer to adopt an all-EV line-up around the turn of the century, meaning 1900. It's not like this hasn't been tried before. There are good reasons gasoline overtook electric, and those EV batteries lasted a lifetime, not a few years to a decade.

The best idea is to let the market work, but modern governments have done a great job selling socialism as a far smarter alternative to free markets.

 

... and can fully recharge in 5 minutes ...

 

JIM LIGHTA posted: "The best idea is to let the market work, but modern governments have done a great job selling socialism as a far smarter alternative to free markets."
From some of the comments JIM has spoken a now self-evident truth.

 

Your post is depressing b/c it is spot on.

 

Electricity is almost certainly the fuel of the future. So cars will become powered by electric engines. But that's nothing to get downhearted about.

Twenty years ago would you have predicted the F-Type?

This is one of the greatest cars for the dollar of all time.

And it affords me one of the greatest of pleasures:

I recently discovered the following tunnel tune in my R:

(I normally daily-drive not in dynamic mode, but with the transmission in sport mode, exhaust mode quiet.)
You downshift as you come to the tunnel, down to second as entering or having just entered the tunnel, accelerate to have the transmission upshift itself into third at redline. During that acceleration, it opens its own exhaust valves, and as it shifts itself from second to third just as it touches redline, it sings the most glorious note you've ever heard from that marvelous instrument. The tunnel is to the car's sound as the shower is to yours. Following that, it closes its own exhaust valves again, and you're calm, cool, collected, compliant, and transcended by the tune as you exit the tunnel.

Enjoy your car in the here and now.

 

God I love doing that because I'm 10 years old inside. Especially when passing a Tesla, which will never try to run with you because they are perpetually terrified about range.

I disagree that electricity is the fuel of the future, since it was the norm and failed in the past. The business case was better then, as gasoline was not yet commonly available.

Please look at the dire financial distress at Tesla, not the green hype (as if CO2 is not green, anyway). This, after taxpayers were forced to inject a kajillion dollars from government knows best.

I can't understand why Jag engineers want so desperately to duplicate that distress by (rumor alert) killing the gasoline powered F-Type, minus billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies.

 

Wow JIMLIGHTA, you really have it in for electric cars it seems. While I love my F Type and the uniqueness of it, I also love my Tesla. My electricity rates are falling, not spiking because I have rooftop solar panels allowing me to charge during daylight for free or after midnight for lowest rates. Range is totally adequate for me at 310 miles on a charge. I've never had an issue away from home using a Supercharging station. On the other hand, I agree that the future does not look too bright for the 2-seater sports car. Even the Miata MX-5 sales are declining.

 

With electricity, all you are doing is moving the pollution around, and in most cases generating the electricity with even dirtier burning fuel. Try telling me coal is cleaner than petrol. If you're using nukes, we can talk again...maybe.

 

In California renewable energy sources is mandated to increase, replacing fossil fuels. Currently San Diego Gas & Electric, my "dirty" energy provider is producing 45% of its output using renewable sources rather than moving the dirt around. So electrical production is headed toward using majority renewable sources leaving coal, nuclear and fossil fuels to the past. My solar panels which provide 100% of my electrical use are certainly not dirty. I do hope however, that gasoline sticks around for a bit longer.

 

First off, I'm a millennial. I agree with what was brought up earlier- it's not a dislike of driver's cars, but rather a lack of disposable income to spend on fun things like cars. There have ALWAYS been people who just want mass transit cars- that's why brands like Buick and Hyundai exist in the first place. And there will always be a market for sports cars- hence why Ferrari, Lamborghini, and McLaren are doing just fine.

Also, electricity will not be the death of the sports car. Just look at the hybrid hypercard and the new NSX- hybrids are awesome. A friend of mine owns a Model S, and yeah it's fast, but there's no emotion. Hybrids will dominate the supercar and sports car world within the next 10 years because they're just such a perfect blend of the benefits of electric torque with the emotions, soundtrack, and engagement of a combustion engine.

 

My expensive, gov't subsidized rooftop solar system didn't produce much energy at all in December (a mere 96 KWH), proving that residential rooftop solar is one of the least cost-effective means of power production. And without expensive battery storage on months that it does produce sufficient energy, I'll still need to buy power to charge my electric car in the evenings, so I'm not sure solar and other "renewables" are really living up to the hype of the Kalifornia manifesto. Now I'm reading the grid will need a complete overhaul to handle the recently mandated rooftop solar on new construction/heavy remodel homes (doubling down on stupid?), as the system was not designed to have massive power reverse through the system at peak solar power times. Other areas of the country with less sunshine will have even bigger obstacles relying on renewables. So my 2 cents is we'll still have gasoline around for some time to come.

 

I'm all for progress, just not government mandated change for some pie-in-the-sky purpose and certainly not when that "progress" is subsidized with taxpayer money. Whenever there is a discussion of solar and wind powered electrical generation the downsides always seem to be overlooked. As one for instance, I read just this morning an estimate for the number of birds killed by being chopped to death or fried by solar mirrors and it was in the hundreds of thousands per year. Imagine if the entire country went nuts.

 

Sports cars, GT and luxury vehicles have always been a small segment of worldwide car market.

The problems that seems to by responsible for Jaguar financial downturn and conseqential decision to shed 6000 jobs out of 40000 total UK jobs are a heavy reliance on diesel engines vehicles (a massive percentage of all models sold) which aren't selling quite as well now, secondly apparently 50% of Jaguar sales come from China whose economic downturn has impacted sales of all Jaguar.

Regarding EV, whilst I am not a fan of these vehicles and have no desire to own one I believe any car manufacturer that doesn't invest in development and production of their own EV are taking a large gamble with their future.

Whilst self driving vehicle technology is no doubt being developed rapidly by many manufacturers it still has a way to go. I suspect it will come to fruition, but as someone who worked in IT from 1970s to 1990s I am reminded of other predictions that were inevitable within the next twenty years as a result of technology, the paperless office comes to mind !

I hope Jaguar survives and even thrives again the way it did a few years ago.
I would hope that they focus on their core business of luxury and GT / sports oriented vehicles, but I realise that very few low volume manufacturers manage to remain profitable.
Other former luxury only car makers manufacturers such as Mercedes Benz and BMW have had to move down market into the volume market to survive.