There are videos out even in this forum of V8 versus tuned V8. Why anybody would post their experience here though is beyond me with all the wise *** hatery going on from people who do NOT have a tune.

 

Hmm . . . I haven't seen that, just plenty of frustration that there is virtually no documentation made available on tuning either the V6 or V8 engines, which is not the case with most other high performance engines out there. From where I sit, the folks offering F-Type tunes are just saying trust us, and not returning phone calls. I've tried. When someone says to me, "just trust me," I'm inclined to move quickly away.

I'd be very interested in tuning if I could get my eyeballs on some credible documentation.

 

That's my experience. I E-mailed, facebooked eurochargef and got nothing. They have a decent rep, too. I don't understand.

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...ts-v8s-127932/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...le-vid-142198/


just a quick search without digging too deep ...

 

Yep, I remember that from quite some time ago, and very little else other than an extensive Hennesey thread. Nothing for the V6 that I can recall.

 

Another 1000 miles and we'll have some data from Behe Performance (aka "Lucky Dog Garage").

 

Per what I've gathered guys, the ETG tune is the same company that tuned ECM's for Hennessey. I believe the tuner companies use the same base company when tuning ecms. They don't mention much because they aren't the ones doing the tuning, the company they are contacting for the file is tuning. They are just using the transfer device and sending your car's ID back to the primary company. I believe Eurocharged/ETG/and all others use the same unit. The company supplying the files has not decoded all the hex for full manipulation per my knowledge.
The variables that I know are available for adjustment are as follows:
AP Advance at part load
AS Advance correction
CP Load/Throttle Position Reference
IFP Injection opening time related to inj. pressure
IP Injection at part load
IS Injection correction
IX Injection at Full Throttle
L2 Torque Limiter (2)
LC Torque Limiter
LV Speed limiter
QD Air mass flow (Diagnostic)
QS Specific air mass flow quantity

Hence, the limited options. This led me to investigate an easier more controlled approach of designing a piggy back system to cut back on the rich mixture at WOT.

Hope this helps,
Derek Fricke

 

If we're actually getting full throttle. But that's a whole new topic right there...

 

I am pursuing the purchase of the ECU pulley and software flash for my 2014 F Type S 5.0L. Before I actually purchase, has anyone on this forum installed this particular package and is it operating as billed. The other question is the strength of the drive train being able to reliably handle the increase in tourque and power. Thanks for input.

 

Whose tune will you be using? 15% reduction pulley?

 

The website is ECU tuning group out of Freemount, C.A There is a youtube video demonstrating the pulley change out on a F Type. I have had a couple of conversations with the CEO, Jags which he has been very responsive to. Of course, the testimonials on their web site have been extremely positive.

 

Somehow I missed this thread so i'm a bit late to the party.

We've been working on a V8S on & off the last few months. It's been very interesting, and a few nice surprises too.

Some bad news for you on the piggy back idea Derek.

This V8S was fitted with a RaceChip Ultimate piggy back unit Chiptuning for Jaguar F-Type 5.0 Kompressor ? RaceChip Chiptuning which claimed to take the 495PS/488HP/364kW/625Nm V8S to 608PS/600HP/447kW/762Nm.

No it doesn't.

Ran the car on the dyno, dead stock it made 414rwhp. So from 488HP that would be an approximate 15% drivetrain loss. Not bad.

The big surprise was the torque. Dyno said just under 500 lb-ft at the crank, or 677Nm. This is not the first 5.0L that made a big torque number like that. But it does make you wonder, is the 5.0L underrated for torque? Seems so...

Now for the RaceChip. They claim +23% in power & torque over stock. The reality is quite different. Peak numbers were just 420rwhp and 515 lb-ft. Which is a total flop. Yes if you look at the curves on the dyno sheet there is a gain mid-range, and this is noticeable behind the wheel. But the outright numbers, not even close to the claims given.

Dyno sheet:



Now it's important to understand why. How does the RaceChip work? It intercepts the MAP (before the S/C) and the TMAP (after the S/C) and tells the ECU that the manifold pressures are low. So the ECU "should" respond by allowing more boost, by allowing more throttle. But it doesn't work out that way.

The Bosch ECU is extremely complex and has some incredible failsafes built into it. If it detects an implausible measurement from a sensor, it will just ignore that input and use a different measurement to run the engine.

The ECU is programmed so there are "normal" values for MAF rate and MAP/TMAP signals, at a certain rpm, throttle input & load. If for example, the MAF rate is "out of spec" it get's ignored and the ECU runs the engine using the MAP/TMAP (like a MAFless or speed-density tune). Likewise if the MAP/TMAP is out of spec it's ignored and the engine runs off the MAFs instead.

So this RaceChip piggyback unit is most likely rendering the MAP/TMAP inputs useless, as the ECU will be ignoring them. So it's running off the MAF's instead, with the factory-defined fuelling/timing/throttle for MAF's only, which would explain why there is only a small difference in the actual power output.

You can actually unplug the MAF sensors and the engine will run just fine. The danger would be with a piggyback fooling the MAP/TMAP inputs the ECU is relying on a faked signal to run the engine.

This was not tested because the outcome is totally unpredictable. Worst case the engine could be subjected to maximum throttle with no torque limitation, which might make incredible power, but also result in a catastrophic failure of the engine or drivetrain. Who knows??!

It was very important to understand what this unit was doing, because we were going to flash the V8S with an R tune.

Now if you were to make a piggy back controller for these cars, it would have to override just about every sensor that goes to the ECU. I mean MAF's, MAP/TMAP, possibly also the O2 sensors. It'd be a very complex device and would be extremely difficult to set it up properly so the ECU doesn't ignore the measurements.

Can't help you with any first hand experience of these tune/pulley packages, sorry.

What we did with this V8S was load a slighly modified F-Type R tune to it.

Hopefully that car will be back to the dyno in the next few weeks and we'll have some numbers to talk about.

The transmission is strong. On paper it's rated to 700Nm/515lb-ft but in reality it's quite over-engineered. I would not worry about the transmission.

 

Good info Cambo,
Did you pull and A/F read before and after the plug-in ? I'd be curious to see where they are tweaking the fueling. I'm surprised to not see more power up top. However the mid-range power appears to be pretty solid.

I would bet that the piggy-back is setup up to use the TMAP to control when the unit is active. So when the TMAP signals boost pressure, it turns on the control. Then by doing so, limits the voltage coming out of the MAP therefore limiting the injector timing and opening them for a shorter period. Resulting in a slightly leaner mixture in the mid-range.

Of course marketing always is considered and over inflating or fudging numbers for sales is a method many companies use.

The unit I'm constructing will use a built in map sensor to sense when in boost, then calibrate the a/f by adjusting the summed MAF signals. The difference in what I'm working on , is the end user will be able to "dial-in" via software the A/F based upon their upgrades. Sure there is a limit to WOT adjust-ability with the complexity of these ECMs but leaning these systems out a bit isn't too much of a head-ache when focused on WOT.

Seems the unit you tested, works decently. They just did a mild/safe tune. If you have the ability to locate the a/f reads it would be interesting to see the range adjusted and how that effected HP.

Great info Cambo. Thanks for this post.

 

I don't have the dyno sheets with AFR's on me but can get them easy enough.

I spoke with my guru about trying to make a piggyback work with the Bosch ECU. The short answer was forget it.

Long answer is;

Intercepting the MAF signals alone won't change anything, the ECU will control the AFR based on the O2 sensors. Intercepting the MAF and MAP is the same story. Intercepting the MAPs well we saw what it did already with the RaceChip.

And if you start intercepting the O2 sensors it gets risky, then there is no safety net.

Modifying the ECU program is already possible, and it leaves the fail-safes in place, which are nice to have on engines that costs $20k+ to replace in the worst case.

 

Did you hear anything from the owner of the car? First reactions?

Kind regards

 

Yes, he loves it. "It's how the car should have been from the factory" "bloody fantastic" "couldn't stop laughing" and so on.

 

Which numbers do you expect on the dyno?
The 550PS of the V8R or more?
What does that mean "slighly modified F-Type R tune"?

Thanks in advance!

 

I really don't know what numbers to expect from the dyno.

The V8S is supposed to be 495PS/488HP/364kW/625Nm from the factory.
The R is supposed to be 550PS/542HP/405kW/680Nm from the factory.

This V8S did 414rwhp which with a 15% loss comes out more or less the factory rating of 495PS/488HP

But it made a heap more torque than the factory spec; 677Nm, which is way over the V8S rating of 625Nm and barely behind the R's 680Nm.

The car is definitely making more power now, but the numbers will be anyones guess, especially since it appears the 550PS tune might be under-rated from the factory (see the stock XFR-S numbers in this thread, https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...vs-xfr-151960/) I'm going to guess anywhere between 450-500rwhp (the dyno we use reads low by Northern Hemisphere standards), and the torque I guess something over 680Nm... ?

The tune itself is a factory 2015MY F-Type R Euro2 tune, but the file loaded into the ECU had to be modified because the wiring pin-outs of the ECU changed from 2014MY to 2015MY.

You can't directly load the 2015MY file into a 2014MY car it just won't work. So the file was adjusted for the different wiring.

 

Here is my dyno sheet of my 2014 V8S with pulley and Eurocharged tune ...





It is running lean as you can hear some of the over run does not make it out of the exhaust but I have a new exhaust coming in January and will have it tuned richer then.


It ended up putting more power down on the same dyno as my pulley tuned XKRS which ended up at 500whp.

 

Nice. Who did the work on yours? I would like to see some AFR numbers given your observation about running lean.