Jaguar Engines & transmissions Discuss performance / modifications / upgrades etc here..

Intercooler Upgrade.....laminova

 
  #41  
Old 07-19-2016, 08:30 AM
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>One can definitely feel the difference in how hard the car pulls before and after the water mist on the intercooler with the additional 10" pusher fan. The butt dyno doesn't lie.

Proof? "pulls harder" and "butt dyno". You must have little to no engineering background regarding thermodynamics and how to publish supporting data. Trap times? Dyno results? Actual temperature drop under numerous operating conditions?

Using water to cool down a radiator will have very inconsistent results depending on the ambient air temperature flowing past the radiator at a given time of the day, the elevation, the humidity level of the air, as well as the heat soak of the cooling system when the water is sprayed. There will also be a "lag time" for the cooler/chilled coolant for it to travel from the radiator to the intercooler, before the heat transfer rate between the compressed air flowing through the intercooler is affected.

I feel like I am wasting my time responding to you.
 
  #42  
Old 07-19-2016, 12:07 PM
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You are wasting your time because there is soooo much general consensually agreed upon evidence that evaporative cooling is very effective.

On second thought, you should go ahead with your desired route and report back what measured benefits you receive.

Even if you do not agree with my statement that evaporative cooling is effective, you cannot deny that there is a substantial advantage from adding a 10" pusher fan in front of the intercooler radiator. Having air flow over the intercooler radiator when not moving or at slow speeds is a no brainer benefit, or do you disagree?
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 07-20-2016 at 10:39 AM.
  #43  
Old 07-19-2016, 01:55 PM
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I'll ask a different question:

Do you think upgrading the intercoolers could possibly give the same cooling benefit as misting the intercooler radiator and adding a 10" pusher fan to it?

Do you think there is more room for improvement with the approach of upgrading the intercoolers OR misting the existing system and adding the 10" pusher fan?
 
  #44  
Old 07-19-2016, 03:57 PM
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[You are wasting your time because there is soooo much general consensually agreed upon evidence that evaporative cooling is very effective.]

Swamp coolers work great in low humidity environments like Phoenix, Las Vegas, and many other low humidity areas. They don't work so well in the southern states.

[On second thought, you should go ahead with your desired route and report back what measured benefits you receive.]

I believe you are confusing me with the original poster of this forum. I have no ongoing cooling projects at the moment.

You continue to write in generalities and have provided no hard evidence. Perhaps in your driving experience your water spray and fan has helped to generate a little more power under certain circumstances, but so does spraying a garden hose on your radiator on a hot day between hard driving.
 
  #45  
Old 07-19-2016, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WaterDragon View Post
I'll ask a different question:

Do you think upgrading the intercoolers could possibly give the same cooling benefit as misting the intercooler radiator and adding a 10" pusher fan to it?

Do you think there is more room for improvement with the approach of upgrading the intercoolers OR misting the existing system and adding the 10" pusher fan?
Upgrading only the intercoolers on a supercharged Jaguar 4.2 engine running the Eaton M112 based supercharger wont do much. The POS Eaton generates too much heat to begin with when spun faster or driven hard. Best to go with the AVOS KB twin screw if you want more power.

On the other hand, If you upgrade the secondary radiator at the same time
you upgrade the intercooler and increase the overall cooling capacity of the system, then you can gain overall. But this is not worth it for the stock engine/Eaton supercharger.

If I was to try to improve the intercooler design on the Supercharged Jaguar engines, I'd redesign and improve the intake runners/manifold at the same time. Again, this is not worth it unless you are building up a modified engine.

On my 4.8L build, that will take forever to complete, I plan on using a 3L twin screw front fed supercharger. The supercharger has its own integrated intercooler that is already sized appropriately. I will have to design custom inlet runners when the time comes and I am still working on the flow calculations and other head modification.
 
  #46  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:05 PM
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Since you are not interested in furthering a positive discussion, I'll just let my posted video speak for itself.

Post one yourself when able.

Facts still remain facts:
1: additional air flow given by the additional 10" pusher fan over the intercooler radiator is of substantial benefit.
2: Not everyone lives in a swamp with 100% humidity. In non swamp areas, evaporation "happens." Even when no one is measuring it.
3: Adding the fan costs less than $50, provides noticeable benefit, and can be removed without any damage having happened. Many people appreciate my comment which would allow them to take a small step and gain a feelable improvement. Many people on this board are not interested in having to re-engineer their entire driveline and trouble shoot a TS installation which is far from a weekend project.
4: The car in the video does not show any evidence of heat soak, does it? Boost gauge says 18-19 psi. Undisputed evidence that your opinion that Eaton powered cars must always have heat soak is incorrect. The video IS my "supporting data"
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 07-20-2016 at 11:08 AM.
  #47  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WaterDragon View Post
Since you are not interested in furthering a positive discussion, I'll just let my posted video speak for itself.

Post one yourself when able.
You are a real dweeb! Positive discussion! You hijacked the original thread regarding upgrading the intercooler using Laninova cores with your near worthless water spray and fan combo . You post absolutely no supporting data and post generalities and a video and then expect everyone to agree with you?
The original poster probably abandoned this thread after all your BS started spraying into worthless words.

Last post, goodbye!
 
  #48  
Old 07-20-2016, 04:54 PM
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WHEW ! i'm glad Full moon is over!

this was getting hot.
 
  #49  
Old 07-20-2016, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ronbros View Post
WHEW ! i'm glad Full moon is over!

this was getting hot.


It wasn't that hot for me, I was using my evaporative cooler
 
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  #50  
Old 07-21-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WaterDragon View Post
It wasn't that hot for me, I was using my evaporative cooler
someplace in my books i have one of the best reads and tests of evaporative cooling i have ever read!

it absolutely does work, basicly anything that lowers air inlet charge will help engine performance, tuned accordingly.

should be mentioned that water /meth injection will and does cool incoming air charge also!

i was at a Dyno tuning session,the car,a 1994 Supra I 6 turbocharged, made 70hp more with W/M injection,VS not injected, of course tuning was different between tests!

timing could be advanced more,also not as much retard under higher boost numbers, and could run slightly leaner A/F ratios!

you need a experienced tuner for these tests tho!

when dealing with over 1000HP you had better know whats happening!
 
Attached Thumbnails Intercooler Upgrade.....laminova-tx2k8-2008-houston-009.jpg   Intercooler Upgrade.....laminova-tx2k8-2008-houston-008.jpg  
  #51  
Old 07-22-2016, 10:33 AM
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One of the strongest engines I ever heard of. I hope Jags new inline 6 is as strong internally as those old Supra motors.

I had a friend with one who seemed unable to break it, no matter what he tried.

Ditto on the evap cooling and math injection.
 
  #52  
Old 07-22-2016, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by GGabriel View Post
Ditto on the evap cooling and math injection.
It is always good to "insert math" to support the point you are making.
 
  #53  
Old 07-22-2016, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tijoe View Post
It is always good to "insert math" to support the point you are making.
Very punny, and I must admit, you are very correct on this point.

My math was:

375 ml/minute water injection PRE-blower
Pre Blower gave +1 PSI more boost than post blower.

2 x 175 ml/min nozzles @ 100 psi misting the intercooler radiator with the 10" pusher fan.

No more heat soak @ 18-19 psi. Back to back runs were no longer slower because of heat soak.
 

Last edited by WaterDragon; 07-22-2016 at 04:16 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-22-2016, 02:46 PM
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Bumpity-bump-bump-bump...
GGabriel, any updates?
 
  #55  
Old 12-08-2016, 11:21 AM
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i guess tijoe still is not running, maybe by end of 2017?

the math has him envestigating more math.

not building anything.
 
  #56  
Old 12-08-2016, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GGabriel View Post
One of the strongest engines I ever heard of. I hope Jags new inline 6 is as strong internally as those old Supra motors.

I had a friend with one who seemed unable to break it, no matter what he tried.

Ditto on the evap cooling and math injection.
.


so true , i seen the tuners, put 52 psi boost into one of them, made a final 1430whp, inline 6 ,3.4 liters!

amazing
 
  #57  
Old 12-08-2016, 07:01 PM
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while we are talking silly engines, dyno sheet for a GM ecotec ,4 banger, 2.2L!

thousands of them out there, in lowly cobalt, malibu, ffr, and many other Gm cars!


back few years, GM was selling them as crate engines(cant remember cost), none of the muscle head car guys wanted a 4cylinder engine, so they dropped the compact race program when GM almost went under 2008, downsizing!

i got hold of one of there books on complete modifications of the Ecotec, has part numbers and specifications for the machining and parts availability vendors.

a very engine savvy piece of reading, the mod i liked, was they run the ARP cylinder head studs, thru the complete block into the lower end main bearing girdel, the block end up like a sandwich in between the head and main bearing caps/girdel, NO more lifting the head or blowing out the bottom end!! NICE. lotsa boost 50/60 psi, OMH.
 
Attached Thumbnails Intercooler Upgrade.....laminova-ecotec-engine-003.jpg   Intercooler Upgrade.....laminova-ecotec-engine-001.jpg   Intercooler Upgrade.....laminova-ecotec-engine-002.jpg  

Last edited by ronbros; 12-08-2016 at 07:21 PM.
  #58  
Old 12-09-2016, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ronbros View Post
i guess tijoe still is not running, maybe by end of 2017?

the math has him envestigating more math. not building anything.
I try to run now and again, but after my ruptured quadracep tendon a year and a half ago, it is still difficult to run any distance. Weight gain doesn't help . Yes, perhaps by the end of 2017 I'll be running on a regular basis.

I'm still building a lot, unfortunately it is the remodel of my house rather than working on car projects. (House projects never seem to end.) I haven't worked on the conversion project in years. Brings a tear to my eye every time I pass the car sitting in the garage that I will probably get old and die before I get back to working on it.

Ingesting math makes my brain hurt!
 
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  #59  
Old 12-09-2016, 03:25 PM
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tijoe, thought you would like it!

just something to wake up this thread, kinda getting quiet here!

have to stir the pot every so often.
 
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  #60  
Old 12-20-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GGabriel View Post
One of the strongest engines I ever heard of. I hope Jags new inline 6 is as strong internally as those old Supra motors.

I had a friend with one who seemed unable to break it, no matter what he tried.

Ditto on the evap cooling and math injection.

The last of the line AJ16 was a really really strong engine. I've seen examples in XJSs that have covered 400,000 miles and they barely use a drop of oil. I've also seen them on the dyno undergoing Fords much feared 'thermal shock test' where freezing ice cold water is pumped into the head when running at full load during warm operation to test the head gasket.


Oh, and Plums, who criticises Everything Jaguar does- and whines about the head gasket- this test was done on the V8 too and it passed and despite this- there are issues in the field when the engine is old. You can do everything you can in engineering to mitigate risk and still have issues.


I want to know what you HAVE done, how many engines YOU have designed and executed that you act like supreme arbiter please? Lets here your experience. Not whining. Otherwise, you could drop your X308 and get a Camry and we'd all be happy.
 
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