Overview of Jag differentials
#83
07-25-2017, 05:28 PM
#84
08-14-2017, 01:22 PM
My xf 2.7 diesel with 1:3.07 ratio diff is howling like a demented ghost at 40 mph. I want to go down the Quaife route but can I use the pinion and ring gear or are they damaged once the howling has started? It is still pretty silent on the overrun and whines just a little at 60 mph.
If I have to renew, was it only Jaguar who used the 8" with 3.07 ratio? I cannot find these ring gears+pinion anywhere on the net.
If I have to renew, was it only Jaguar who used the 8" with 3.07 ratio? I cannot find these ring gears+pinion anywhere on the net.
#86
08-15-2017, 12:28 PM
Hmmmmm, not so good. it seems those 8" 3.07 ratio pinion/ring gear sets are Jaguar only. Anybody know of a dealer having a set languishing on their shelf? (Seems Jag are out of them.)
Alternatively I will have to use a 3.0 ratio set which is only 2% out. Presumably all 8" sets have the same bolt pattern and bearing sizes?
Alternatively I will have to use a 3.0 ratio set which is only 2% out. Presumably all 8" sets have the same bolt pattern and bearing sizes?
#87
08-16-2017, 08:48 AM
Veteran Member
As far as gear sets go, the Jaguar rings are all the same across 8.0 differentials.
The differences I have seen is in the pinion gear. Ford makes numerous lengths of the pinion shaft to mate to different housings and drive shaft flanges.
Regarding the howling if it is bearing noise, there is the possibility that your gear set is still good. You need to take it apart and inspect to find out.
If you see any pitting across the gear mating surfaces, or highly polished areas where the gears have worn into each other, then they need to be replaced.
The most common failure mode is that the oil level in the differential get too low. (Leaky seals) Then the rear end starts operating hotter. Since the ring gear sits lower in the housing than the bearings they tend to continue being lubricated. The bearings typically start to run dry first. This leads to a whirring sound. If they get to the point that they start to deteriorate, the bearings shed metal particles/shaving. This metal gets ground between the ring and pinion gears, often pitting and wearing them out.
The more you drive the car when this happens, the faster it wears out.
The differences I have seen is in the pinion gear. Ford makes numerous lengths of the pinion shaft to mate to different housings and drive shaft flanges.
Regarding the howling if it is bearing noise, there is the possibility that your gear set is still good. You need to take it apart and inspect to find out.
If you see any pitting across the gear mating surfaces, or highly polished areas where the gears have worn into each other, then they need to be replaced.
The most common failure mode is that the oil level in the differential get too low. (Leaky seals) Then the rear end starts operating hotter. Since the ring gear sits lower in the housing than the bearings they tend to continue being lubricated. The bearings typically start to run dry first. This leads to a whirring sound. If they get to the point that they start to deteriorate, the bearings shed metal particles/shaving. This metal gets ground between the ring and pinion gears, often pitting and wearing them out.
The more you drive the car when this happens, the faster it wears out.
#89
08-17-2017, 01:05 PM
Not even the obsolete parts guys I asked had these. So the question is if mine are still good.
My diff has a bit of movement in the ring gear as in giving a clunking noise when changing direction turning it slightly by hand. I believe the crush sleeve should give a pre-load to avoid that?
The teeth on the ring gear are free of pitting and shown nice and even polish across the teeth and top to (nearly) bottom. That applies for both sides of the teeth. To me that sounds like good news?
My diff has a bit of movement in the ring gear as in giving a clunking noise when changing direction turning it slightly by hand. I believe the crush sleeve should give a pre-load to avoid that?
The teeth on the ring gear are free of pitting and shown nice and even polish across the teeth and top to (nearly) bottom. That applies for both sides of the teeth. To me that sounds like good news?
#90
10-19-2017, 12:52 PM
5.0L XK NA, LSD confirmed
F-type V6 3.0 S LSD fits into 5.0L NA XK straight bolt on. Probably some XFs and XJs.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...5/#post1778640
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...5/#post1778640
Last edited by Andrey; 10-19-2017 at 02:04 PM.
#92
10-30-2017, 06:06 PM
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alphakinase (12-29-2017)
#93
12-29-2017, 10:54 AM
Senior Member
#94
12-30-2017, 05:49 AM
XF solv
Not even the obsolete parts guys I asked had these. So the question is if mine are still good.
My diff has a bit of movement in the ring gear as in giving a clunking noise when changing direction turning it slightly by hand. I believe the crush sleeve should give a pre-load to avoid that?
The teeth on the ring gear are free of pitting and shown nice and even polish across the teeth and top to (nearly) bottom. That applies for both sides of the teeth. To me that sounds like good news?
My diff has a bit of movement in the ring gear as in giving a clunking noise when changing direction turning it slightly by hand. I believe the crush sleeve should give a pre-load to avoid that?
The teeth on the ring gear are free of pitting and shown nice and even polish across the teeth and top to (nearly) bottom. That applies for both sides of the teeth. To me that sounds like good news?
The following users liked this post:
Panthro (01-04-2018)
#96
01-06-2018, 03:30 PM
#97
02-10-2018, 02:16 PM
Veteran Member
#98
03-27-2019, 09:23 PM
Junior Member
Part 1, part 2 will come when we get to it...
For those of you trying to get your head around which diff is in which car….
Differentials in the late model Jags;
X200, S-Type pre-facelift
X202, S-Type post-facelift
X250, XF all models
X150, XK & XKR alloy body
X350, XJ alloy body
X358, XJ alloy body facelift
X351, New XJ
X152, F-Type.
Gen2
Here you see a Gen2 on the left, Gen1 on the right.
Ford / Visteon 8” unit, used in various models
Unequal length driveshafts, offset diff housing
X202 S-Type, from M45255 – N52047
X350 XJ, up to H31470
X250 XF, up to R41865
X150 XK/R, up to B32752 (3.5/4.2L only)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 petrol manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2 [S/C & N/A], XF 4.2 N/A)
No LSD option from the factory, only aftermarket solution is Quaife ATB (Ford 8.8” doesn’t fit)
See as per Gen1 section it may be possible to fit the Gen1 into a Gen2 car but you need to change the driveshafts and also the ratios.
Gen3 Non E-Diff
Complete re-design, internals TBD
Different flanges & driveshafts to previous generation
X206 S-Type from N52048
X358 XJ from H31471
X351 XJ from V00001 (2.0L, 3.0L N/A, 3.0L Diesel, 5.0L N/A)
X150 XK from B32753 (5.0L N/A only)
X250 XF from R41866 to R47153 (all XF engine options incl 4.2 S/C) & from R41754 (all non-S/C)
X152 F-Type from (3.0L S/C non-S)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2, XF 4.2 S/C)
The F-Types without E-Diff are;
3.15:1 V6 non-S, 8-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6 non-S, 6-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6S, 6-speed & 8-speed RWD (Torsen)
No LSD option except for the F-Type V6S which has a Torsen, apparently fits in the same housing as the other Gen3 diffs, supplier & details of the LSD center is TBC…
Theoretically the Torsen from the V6S could be fitted into other Gen3 non E-Diff housings
For those of you trying to get your head around which diff is in which car….
Differentials in the late model Jags;
X200, S-Type pre-facelift
X202, S-Type post-facelift
X250, XF all models
X150, XK & XKR alloy body
X350, XJ alloy body
X358, XJ alloy body facelift
X351, New XJ
X152, F-Type.
Gen2
Here you see a Gen2 on the left, Gen1 on the right.
Ford / Visteon 8” unit, used in various models
Unequal length driveshafts, offset diff housing
X202 S-Type, from M45255 – N52047
X350 XJ, up to H31470
X250 XF, up to R41865
X150 XK/R, up to B32752 (3.5/4.2L only)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 petrol manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2 [S/C & N/A], XF 4.2 N/A)
No LSD option from the factory, only aftermarket solution is Quaife ATB (Ford 8.8” doesn’t fit)
See as per Gen1 section it may be possible to fit the Gen1 into a Gen2 car but you need to change the driveshafts and also the ratios.
Gen3 Non E-Diff
Complete re-design, internals TBD
Different flanges & driveshafts to previous generation
X206 S-Type from N52048
X358 XJ from H31471
X351 XJ from V00001 (2.0L, 3.0L N/A, 3.0L Diesel, 5.0L N/A)
X150 XK from B32753 (5.0L N/A only)
X250 XF from R41866 to R47153 (all XF engine options incl 4.2 S/C) & from R41754 (all non-S/C)
X152 F-Type from (3.0L S/C non-S)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2, XF 4.2 S/C)
The F-Types without E-Diff are;
3.15:1 V6 non-S, 8-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6 non-S, 6-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6S, 6-speed & 8-speed RWD (Torsen)
No LSD option except for the F-Type V6S which has a Torsen, apparently fits in the same housing as the other Gen3 diffs, supplier & details of the LSD center is TBC…
Theoretically the Torsen from the V6S could be fitted into other Gen3 non E-Diff housings
My vin is below the R41865 it is r13824. Which would make it a GEN 2.
But under Gen 3 it mentions "X250 XF from R41866 to R47153 (all XF engine options incl 4.2 S/C)" and my car is the 4.2 S/C.
Which is it that is in my car ?
#99
03-18-2020, 10:32 AM
Senior Member
Part 1, part 2 will come when we get to it...
For those of you trying to get your head around which diff is in which car….
Differentials in the late model Jags;
X200, S-Type pre-facelift
X202, S-Type post-facelift
X250, XF all models
X150, XK & XKR alloy body
X350, XJ alloy body
X358, XJ alloy body facelift
X351, New XJ
X152, F-Type
Note that the “Gen” naming is not official and is carried on from the Gen1 & Gen2 nomenclature
Gen1
Ford / Visteon 8” unit, used in the S-Type and the Lincoln LS (also Thunderbird)
Equal length driveshafts, symmetrical diff housing
X200 S-Type, up to M45254 (2002MY)
3.07:1 (manual trans)
3.31:1 (automatic)
3.58:1 (Mexican models)
No LSD option from the factory, but the regular Ford 8.8” center bolts in without modification.
Some X202 S-Type owners have fitted the Gen1 housing and driveshafts, along with a Ford LSD.
Gen2
Here you see a Gen2 on the left, Gen1 on the right.
Ford / Visteon 8” unit, used in various models
Unequal length driveshafts, offset diff housing
X202 S-Type, from M45255 – N52047
X350 XJ, up to H31470
X250 XF, up to R41865
X150 XK/R, up to B32752 (3.5/4.2L only)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 petrol manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2 [S/C & N/A], XF 4.2 N/A)
No LSD option from the factory, only aftermarket solution is Quaife ATB (Ford 8.8” doesn’t fit)
See as per Gen1 section it may be possible to fit the Gen1 into a Gen2 car but you need to change the driveshafts and also the ratios.
Gen3 Non E-Diff
Complete re-design, internals TBD
Different flanges & driveshafts to previous generation
X206 S-Type from N52048
X358 XJ from H31471
X351 XJ from V00001 (2.0L, 3.0L N/A, 3.0L Diesel, 5.0L N/A)
X150 XK from B32753 (5.0L N/A only)
X250 XF from R41866 to R47153 (all XF engine options incl 4.2 S/C) & from R41754 (all non-S/C)
X152 F-Type from (3.0L S/C non-S)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2, XF 4.2 S/C)
The F-Types without E-Diff are;
3.15:1 V6 non-S, 8-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6 non-S, 6-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6S, 6-speed & 8-speed RWD (Torsen)
No LSD option except for the F-Type V6S which has a Torsen, apparently fits in the same housing as the other Gen3 diffs, supplier & details of the LSD center is TBC…
Theoretically the Torsen from the V6S could be fitted into other Gen3 non E-Diff housings
Gen3 E-Diff
Similar to the Gen3 but with the E-Diff option
X351 XJ, from V00001 to V58602 (3.0L S/C and 5.0L S/C only)
X150 XKR, from B32753 (5.0L S/C only)
X250 XF, from R47154 to S61361 (3.0L S/C and 5.0L S/C only)
2.56:1 (XF and XJ 5.0L S/C with 8-speed auto)
3.31:1 (XF, XK & XJ 5.0L S/C with 6-speed auto)
E-Diff is electronically operated LSD.
Note that the XJ from V58603 and XF from S61362 has a new version E-Diff with 2.56:1 ratio in conjunction with the 8-speed transmission but does not appear to be Gen4 as per the F-Type
Gen4 E-Diff
Similar to the Gen3 E-Diff but with different mounting of the E-motor, probably other changes
X152 F-Type, from (5.0L S/C & V6S AWD)
2.56:1 (F-Type V8S, R, RWD & AWD)
3.31:1 (F-Type V6S AWD)
E-Diff is electronically operated LSD.
Some nice cutaway pictures of the F-Type E-Diff here
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...days-of-f-type
Summary
All N/A cars have open diffs
All 4.2L S/C cars have open diffs
All 5.0L S/C cars have E-Diffs
The 3.0L S/C XF & XJ have E-Diffs
The 3.0L base model F-Type has an open diff
The 3.0L S model F-Type has a Torsen LSD
The 5.0L F-Type has a different E-Diff to the XKR, XFR & XJ
For those of you trying to get your head around which diff is in which car….
Differentials in the late model Jags;
X200, S-Type pre-facelift
X202, S-Type post-facelift
X250, XF all models
X150, XK & XKR alloy body
X350, XJ alloy body
X358, XJ alloy body facelift
X351, New XJ
X152, F-Type
Note that the “Gen” naming is not official and is carried on from the Gen1 & Gen2 nomenclature
Gen1
Ford / Visteon 8” unit, used in the S-Type and the Lincoln LS (also Thunderbird)
Equal length driveshafts, symmetrical diff housing
X200 S-Type, up to M45254 (2002MY)
3.07:1 (manual trans)
3.31:1 (automatic)
3.58:1 (Mexican models)
No LSD option from the factory, but the regular Ford 8.8” center bolts in without modification.
Some X202 S-Type owners have fitted the Gen1 housing and driveshafts, along with a Ford LSD.
Gen2
Here you see a Gen2 on the left, Gen1 on the right.
Ford / Visteon 8” unit, used in various models
Unequal length driveshafts, offset diff housing
X202 S-Type, from M45255 – N52047
X350 XJ, up to H31470
X250 XF, up to R41865
X150 XK/R, up to B32752 (3.5/4.2L only)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 petrol manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2 [S/C & N/A], XF 4.2 N/A)
No LSD option from the factory, only aftermarket solution is Quaife ATB (Ford 8.8” doesn’t fit)
See as per Gen1 section it may be possible to fit the Gen1 into a Gen2 car but you need to change the driveshafts and also the ratios.
Gen3 Non E-Diff
Complete re-design, internals TBD
Different flanges & driveshafts to previous generation
X206 S-Type from N52048
X358 XJ from H31471
X351 XJ from V00001 (2.0L, 3.0L N/A, 3.0L Diesel, 5.0L N/A)
X150 XK from B32753 (5.0L N/A only)
X250 XF from R41866 to R47153 (all XF engine options incl 4.2 S/C) & from R41754 (all non-S/C)
X152 F-Type from (3.0L S/C non-S)
2.69:1 (2.7D manual)
2.87:1 (4.2L in XJ & S-Type)
3.07:1 (2.7D auto, 3.5L XJ, 2.5+3.0 manuals, XF 4.2 S/C)
3.31:1 (2.5+3.0 auto, XK/R 4.2, XF 4.2 S/C)
The F-Types without E-Diff are;
3.15:1 V6 non-S, 8-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6 non-S, 6-speed (open)
3.31:1 V6S, 6-speed & 8-speed RWD (Torsen)
No LSD option except for the F-Type V6S which has a Torsen, apparently fits in the same housing as the other Gen3 diffs, supplier & details of the LSD center is TBC…
Theoretically the Torsen from the V6S could be fitted into other Gen3 non E-Diff housings
Gen3 E-Diff
Similar to the Gen3 but with the E-Diff option
X351 XJ, from V00001 to V58602 (3.0L S/C and 5.0L S/C only)
X150 XKR, from B32753 (5.0L S/C only)
X250 XF, from R47154 to S61361 (3.0L S/C and 5.0L S/C only)
2.56:1 (XF and XJ 5.0L S/C with 8-speed auto)
3.31:1 (XF, XK & XJ 5.0L S/C with 6-speed auto)
E-Diff is electronically operated LSD.
Note that the XJ from V58603 and XF from S61362 has a new version E-Diff with 2.56:1 ratio in conjunction with the 8-speed transmission but does not appear to be Gen4 as per the F-Type
Gen4 E-Diff
Similar to the Gen3 E-Diff but with different mounting of the E-motor, probably other changes
X152 F-Type, from (5.0L S/C & V6S AWD)
2.56:1 (F-Type V8S, R, RWD & AWD)
3.31:1 (F-Type V6S AWD)
E-Diff is electronically operated LSD.
Some nice cutaway pictures of the F-Type E-Diff here
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...days-of-f-type
Summary
All N/A cars have open diffs
All 4.2L S/C cars have open diffs
All 5.0L S/C cars have E-Diffs
The 3.0L S/C XF & XJ have E-Diffs
The 3.0L base model F-Type has an open diff
The 3.0L S model F-Type has a Torsen LSD
The 5.0L F-Type has a different E-Diff to the XKR, XFR & XJ
Thanks for the great write up!! Sorry if I missed this, but do you happen to know the fluid capacities of the each generation of rear differentials?
I replaced my rear differential (on my XJ (VIN pre H31470) from a gen 2->gen 3 non e-diff unit(C2C40993->C2C41651)) about a week ago per Jaguar technical bulletin JTB00175NA55. In the Technical Bulletin, Jaguar specifies to use rear diff oil PN: C2D3648, quantity needed of 1. When I got the old parts including the unused diff oil there was approx 180mL of the 1L container still remaining which surprised me. I would like to confirm everything boxes and the differential was filled properly.
Thanks again!
Mike
#100
12-13-2022, 12:15 PM
Junior Member
