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Garage recommendation
Can anyone recommend anywhere reasonably closish to London that would be able to diagnose a seized engine?
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Is the car a manual or auto, does it just not turn on the starter? What makes you think its siezed?
If you take out the spark plugs can you turn it by hand from the fan? If its manual put the car in fourth, take the hand brake off and push the car very gently, if the engine is siezed it won't turn. It may be easier again with the plugs out. |
Well, I got the problem diagnosed.
That engine will most likely never ever run again. *sigh* |
Sad to hear that. XK engines are not easy to find.
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How did it seize up ?
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OK, so I sent it to an engineering firm that specialise in the Jaguar XK Engine, this was the report:
Hi Brent Report on your engine, No. D62629-8, stripped for assessment, specifically relating to work which has previously been done incorrectly and caused it to fail ;- The main failure is that connecting rod No. 1 bearing shell has spun in the connecting rod and has welded itself to the crankshaft. As a result the crankshaft & connecting rod may be damaged beyond economic repair. This has happened because all of the bearing caps have been fitted to the incorrect connecting rods. On the XK engines, Jaguar number their cylinders in the opposite direction to most other manufacturers, in so far as No. 1 cylinder is at the rear of the engine. The engine has been assembled with the bearing caps on in the order which would be correct for a non-Jaguar engine, however some of the caps have been fitted the wrong way around as well. The numbering on the connecting rods should be facing the exhaust side of the engine and the numbering on the bearing caps should be adjacent to the same number on the connecting rod. The main bearing caps were all fitted with the correct orientation but No. 2&3 and 5&6 were swapped. The distributor drive gear has teeth cracked and damaged. The oil slinger plate was not aligned correctly with the woodruff key so the distance piece would not go fully on to the crankshaft and this prevented the crankshaft pulley from being tightened correctly. As a result the crankshaft pulley has spun and on the crankshaft and then welded itself to it, making it extremely difficult to remove. Also some sawdust was found in the crankcase. Regards Hi Brent I will be taking over this as Phil is away we have many photos of the engine I will send across clearly showing the incorrect orientation and markings. I must say this is some of the worst engine building/engineering we have ever seen. Here's a picture. I have many, many pictures. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...1c3eba174e.jpg |
Ouch.
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Did the engine seize while running?
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Wierd ~ This engine should have been tight on the bench if as reported?? Anybody with a modicum of Jaguar knowledge knows that No 1 is the rear cylinder & Jaguar's bearing cap practice.
Why I always Plastigauge bearings. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b4a4da81ac.png |
Originally Posted by George Camp
(Post 2050976)
Did the engine seize while running?
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
(Post 2051025)
Wierd ~ This engine should have been tight on the bench if as reported?? Anybody with a modicum of Jaguar knowledge knows that No 1 is the rear cylinder & Jaguar's bearing cap practice.
Why I always Plastigauge bearings. Original thread here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...ad-off-196930/ |
Hate to say it but if it seized while running I am afraid an inspection of the crank will show it is tweaked a bit. They can be straightened but 3.8 cranks are getting very dear$$$$$$.
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Originally Posted by wearlej
(Post 2051169)
It lasted about 12 miles after I picked it up.. amazed it made it that far to be honest...
Original thread here: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/m...ad-off-196930/ Something smells & makes me doubt your new shop. |
OK Glynn, lets test your assumption. It seized solid 12 miles after picking it up, the following morning in fact, what is your alternate theory regarding how the bearing has welded itself to the crank?
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The list is as long as your arm right down to a stuck open pressure release valve on the oil pump circuit to runaway revs if you don't clamp the throttle pivot lever on the butterfly shafts adequately to dirt/debris build up in the crankshaft galleries which is common on XK cranks. I'm used to having 3 forensic failure labs at my disposal in our oil company. One in Richmond ~ California, one in Ghent ~ Belgium & one in Omaezaki ~ Japan. If I was not retired I would fly the engine to Ghent & do a complete failure mode analysis.
What was the engine temperature doing when she seized? What was the oil pressure doing? etc. Have you done an oil sample analysis? Crucial before you start stripping. I'm very sorry your engine failed but I'm not convinced we know why as yet. A seized bearing is a symptom of something else being wrong. In my technical job where if the OEM tells the customer to take a hike they usually then try to blame the oil company. I've investigated thousands of failures in my career & sometimes the cause is not that obvious & you need to look at the issue wholistically. Has this crank been ground? If so by how much? Have the pins been checked for taper, barreling & ovality etc. I could write a book on the subject. e.g. If you have an oil flow issue you would expect the big end bearing furthest from the pump to fail first. If you have a debris in oil problem or a filter in bypass you would expect the main bearing closest to the pump to show the most scoring & dirt impegnation & so on. You learn to read the progression of the failure. |
That's all quite interesting actually, when it was first fired up it had gone straight to full revs as the spacers between the inlet manifolds had been left off and the throttle linkages bent in order to clear the inlet manifold. That was quite alarming!
Is it the Dutch oil company you worked for? If so you may know my FIL. In any case, the fact is, the engine seized 12 miles after being rebuilt with new bearings. _Something_ has been done wrong, I have no reason to doubt this workshop and I cannot see what, if anything, they would have to gain. Are you implying that they have staged all the photos that i have been sent? I have been down to see it in person and I took some photos myself. Anyway. It's a bit irrelevant really. I have posted the report that I was given to update the thread. |
No ~ It's a very large US Multinational.
I'm not saying it's staged. It's the tone of the reports that bothers me & Jon knows these basics. I usually find those that criticise others as in the reports are not that great themselves. Seen it a thousand times. However mistakes do happen. You might have buggered that bearing at first start up & other questions have not been answered re oil pressure, temperature, state of crank etc. I suggest you diagnose very carefully or the same thing might happen again. Were you present during the engine rebuild? Good luck! |
How the hell can any shop make such a rooky mistake and get the bearing caps mixed up, it's been a while, but I'm pretty sure mine were marked quite clearly at the factory ?
The last engine I had done was my 1999 Mazda truck and my machine shop put their own set of marks on it, as well as the factory marks that were already present. They must of had some kid do it because the experienced guys were busy... I've run into that before. |
Aye well, hopefully it will serve as a cautionary tale for others.
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