wood veneers, dash etc
 

Can anybody tell me the name of the light coloured wood veneer, mainly used as a a contrast on the edges of the main dark burr walnut on the dash etc? It looks like it is applied cross grain.
barry

Barry,

The process is know as 'cross banding'. It was used on early Jaguars but has more recently been restricted to Daimler variants.

I think Maple was often for cross banding used but a veneer specialist such as Chapman & Cliff or Myrtle Productions would be able to identify the wood on yours.

Graham

Thanks, but the companies you name renovate dash & wood parts, so I would feel awkwark to ask them what they use.
barry

contact British Auto Wood, I don't think he minds telling you.

British Autowood | Dashboard and Woodwork Restoration

I've been doing some research on this and what I've found is that earlier cars (in general) used box wood and as the supply ran out, it is said they used black walnut (American)sap wood. Sap wood is the grain running next to the bark and is quite light in colour.
I don't believe it is maple _ if one looks at the grain on the cross banding on some original wood, the grain simply isn't fine enough to be maple.


Where to find the stuff is a challenge, I lucked out and found some boxwood on eBay, they were small pieces so it will be quite time consuming adding the cross banding to the main burl centre.
Sapwood can be found at a descent lumber yard. Many of the pre cut rolls contain the sapwood. The manufacturer doesn't care if this undesirable trait ends up in the end product.
Here is Canada "Windsor Plywood" carries a small supply of veneer. There is also this guy in the US that has a fantastic supply of book matched burls and he may be very helpful in identifying and supplying the cross banding.


https://www.veneersupplies.com/


http://www.joewoodworker.com/

Jose, I can only find a telephone no, cant find an email address, unless you know it.
barry(Uk resident)

Jeff, my earlier enquiries revealed that the light coloured wood is indeed walnut of some kind. The same source supplied a sample, but it has black lines running through it!!!.
My wood is just plain and to me resembles box wood.I recently found a sample of 'Koto',
This is the best match I can find to date.
Finding Burr walnut in uk is not a problem.
Barry

You have to remember that the original cross banding has been in your car for around 50 years, so if it did have some dark streaks in it, they would have long faded away.
Have a look at some of these photos, it looks like they've used a simple ribbon grain mahogany, perhaps Philippine or Honduras...


British Autowood > Dashboards


The guy looked like he had a little trouble getting the banding parallel on the top dash board section (see link below) _ and it also appears to be a little wide.
He did the ends as well, not sure why he did that ???


I don't think there is any set rule what has to be in there as long as it's lighter in colour and consistent through out.
Some zebra wood banding would be very interesting though.


Here are some great photos of how Jaguar did this cross banding. In fact all they did was veneer it first with what looks like black walnut (perhaps sap wood) and then they left just the edges exposed to produce the cross banding.
When one can see the whole piece of veneer that forms the cross banding, it starts to look like a normal piece Walnut.


http://www.jag-lovers.org/saloons/veneer/

Barry, that's funny, I couldn't find an e-mail for him either, but he is on Facebook under British Autowood, I'll send him a message today to see if he wants to share his e-mail address.

Constantines Wood Center in Ft Lauderdale is a very good source in the U.S. for veneers and specialty glues. I have a lot of wood to do so keep us posted on what you come up with for the cross banding. It looks like any number of light colored flat cut veneers will work?

Veneering
 

I have fiished reveneering the wood surrounding the screen/headlining,A & B posts. The longest job was removing the old and preping. I have found a source of hot melt film adhesive. It comes backed with paper, cut to size, apply to back of veneer with an iron, peel off paper,iron on substrate. Tedious but Ok results so far.
Door caps next then perhaps the old dash top that I have got spare.
Barry
PS dont use sanding sealer, goes black, ruinous, beware.

Barry

Where did you source this veneer from - the UK???

do you have any photos of the finished productr as in a couple of weeks I may get round to this task

I have used these people for sourcing burl walnut:
Exotic Wood Veneer, Vacuum Press Systems, Veneering Tools and Veneering Supplies
You can by a book matched small quantity. I have done all my mark 2 wood with one small book. They also have a heat activated glue that is the best way to veneer contoured parts of the dash. There are also a lot of good practices described on the site:
Joe Woodworker - Woodworking, Vacuum Pressing and Veneering Information Website
As for the cross grain light strip, boxwood is apparently the right wood, and it has naturally dark stripes in it, which can be confirmed when you strip your old veneer. I started using boxwood (found on eBay), but switched to birch (which is what the JCNA Mk2 guide calls for, although I am not convinced) and the effect is about the same: light gold with darker thin stripes. I don't believe that this could be sap walnut, as this could only be very narrow bands, normally not used for veneering, and very unsuited for cross banding.
JP
1960 mk2

Ray, Burr walnut is available freely in uk. Ebay seems a good source, depends what size, they usually show you the grain pattern in the advert. The hot melt film adhesive is called ' Rhino sheet' much easer than the old animal glue I used in my youth, only need an iron for the sheet. Available from ebay,S L hardwoods,croydon,(ebay-hardwoodsales)In fact its an advantage as the veneer can be rather brittle and this makes it difficult to cut to shape, but the film if adhesive makes it more flexible, holds it together.
I was advised by a veneer supplier,they are very helpful, who took some time to seek out an employee of jaguar, that the light coloured veneer was not Box wood, as I originally thought,but another form of walnut that slips my mind at the moment, This has light grain with darkish stripes in it!!!! I obtained this privately.As has been suggested this might fade with age, but I didnot like it and used 'Koto' from ebay-jeanlex.Uesd cross grain.
Usually with burr veneers it is recomended that you flatten them first, but I found with the Rhino sheet the first application to the back negates a lot then judicous use of the iron and finishing by scrapping at 90degs with a stanley blade at 90 degs does the trick.Maybe with large flat areas this wont work.
You need to flat the burr by sanding. Dont use sanding sealer, as I do on many occasions, this makes the walnut go black and you loose the grain pattern. Luckerly for me it was on a proto type thing, so no harm done. Lots of info on the net re veneering.
I finished with by applying 2 coats of thinned Yatch varnish, followed by 1 or more coats at full strenght. I decided that the full gloss does not allow the grain pattern to show, so I am recoating with satin finish.It is said that a polyurethane will yellow more quickly!!
DONT use water based varnish!! Only solvent based.Bit thin on the ground in UK
But you pays your money an takes your choice.
JP, my source was very adamant that box wood was not used!!
It was another form of walnut.
Barry

Barry, duly noted :-) I know that it was used as inlays on later Daimler. JCNA still insist that this was birch, but there are a lot of different birch essences, and if it actually was, it would have been something available in Europe and not in the colonies. in short, I will accept any expert opinion on this.
JP
1960 Mk2

JP, what is th 'JCNA' that you refer to?
Barry

Barry, sorry about this. JCNA stands for Jaguar Clubs of North America, and I am referring to their "Mk2 Concours Judging Guide". This is what it says about interior wood:

"UPPER DASH PANEL:
One piece burled walnut veneer, with light birch trim with map light below.
INSTRUMENT, GLOVE BOX & DOOR TRIM PANELS:
Burled walnut veneer, with light birch trim front.
Inside glove box, grey flocked hard board with blue lens covered light."

Best,
JP
1960 Mk2

That is interesting what the judging manual says, if the cross banding in a MkII is birch, I'll eat my hat, it just hasn't got the colour of birch. Birch is generally an all white very fine grain wood with some off-white colour in it and doesn't resemble the cross banding at all.
I have the actual pieces I steamed off a dash (the cross banding that is underneath the burl walnut so it's faded).
I'll post some screen shots of the original wood and some modern common birch and everyone can see that it isn't the same.


It's not about being right or wrong, it's about getting to the bottom of what the heck Jaguar used. So far this thread has allot of different opinions, but no definite answers.


Maybe it is birch, maybe the birch trees over in the UK are different and pulled from old growth. Perhaps that's why it looks different...

I originally thought it was box wood as other high end luxury cars used but the person from British Autowood posted to me that it was Walnut sap wood was the crossbanding underneath and only later in the Daimler models used box wood. The burlwood according to him was mostly burled American walnut and some early models used burled French walnut. That makes sense as Jaguars were not as expensive as Rolls, etc. and while box wood has a similar color it is way more expensive as that is a shrub and only in France can you find box wood growing to a tree diameter so you can imagine why it is expensive and used in more expensive cars.


Good luck as the wood on these cars is what makes them special and it is an "old school" skill very few people really have which is needed to restore them to the quality they should be. I do not think the wood is something most people should tackle themselves as I would recommend to outsource it to someone whom knows Jaguars and this old school craftsmanship, such as British Autowood or Madera Concepts. I was lucky as a friend of mine used to high end wood and he repaired my wood and I had a body shop apply the clear coats, etc. The wood is expensive to restore but it really will make the car so it is worth the money. I would recommend to use more modern clear coat materials as the original clear coat will NOT last and it is such a major pain to take out the dash that the modern clear coats will last way longer and hold up to the sun exposure.

One of the issues that I am not clear about is whether the cross banding under the walnut veneer is what appears as the contrasting stripe or if actually an inlay in a different wood. If it was the cross banding under the walnut, then you would have to sand the walnut very carefully to make if level with the under layer. I have a Daimler pamphlet about woodwork for Jaguars and Daimler, although more recent than our cars, which says that the underlay was Anigre, but that Makore, Bosse, Sapele or African walnut could also have been used. As the cross banding is not visible, it does not matter much: it is there to stabilize the walnut layer. Using sap wood as a cross banding underlay seems very strange (although I have heard it many times). Sap wood is the "new" wood, close to the bark. It is unstable (green) and very narrow. I have seen furniture that uses a whole walnut plank, including sap wood, and it is effectively light brown to whitish. But still my big question, to which I have no answer, is whether that contrasting stripe is part of the underlay or an inlay. Opinion, anyone?
Best,
JP