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Electoral college

 
  #41  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:12 PM
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There ya go!

We can't speak of Gen Z (or Millenials) as though they are a single monolithic block

Cheers
DD
 
  #42  
Old 03-25-2019, 12:51 AM
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The whole subject might be a tempest in a teapot.

The 18-30 years olds (and especially 18-24 year olds) are notorious for not actually showing up at the polls. It's been that way for decades. Only 16% usually vote in the midterms and 30-something % in presidential elections.

The 2018 midterm election was a huge exception with a very large youth turn out. Whether or not it's a flash in the pan is too soon to tell.

Cheers
DD
 
  #43  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:02 AM
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There are several factors affecting young people today that affect there viewpoint more than older people.

Climate change, gun control, student debt, and maybe the national debt and inequality.

They see that nothing is being done about any of those issues and that it is republicans who are the blockage.
 
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  #44  
Old 03-25-2019, 07:33 AM
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*Climate change is a farce, ...but, yes there should be more done to clean up this world. But the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction for those who aren't filtering anything. Areas like India, China, Phillipines and S America pollute way more than the US. Yes I've been to a couple of these places and seen it and its disgusting...there are people living in squalor in these places to.
*I dare someone to come take my guns, for I have the constitutional right to take up arms against a tyrannical gov't (per the constitution)...not just defend my home and property. This aspect that somehow more background checks will solve shootings is ridiculous. There are already background checks (it takes a week to complete a check in FL) and seemingly the bad guys don't get them when they obtain them via the black market/underground. My weapons are registered also, but again, I bet the bad guys aren't registering theirs.
*Student debt recently was primarily a result of the Obama admin providing easier to get loans without the thought of the consequences...i.e. jobs being available afterward.
*National debt, see Obama admin (added nearly 10 trillion, doubling the debt and adding more than all previous admins combined), G W Bush added a fair chunk himself.
*Inequality?...of and or for what?
*Democrats had a super majority for 2 yrs with Obama (nothing could stop them from passing legislation) and they did zilch about what your crying about and yet you still blame Republicans. Some Dems had to jump the fence to prevent passage of some of those bills, so look in the mirror on that one.
 
  #45  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:09 AM
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Your opinions notwithstanding, those are indeed some of the issues the younger generation is concerned about.

And, generally speaking, they're comfortable with ethnic diversity, homosexuality, and secularism ...putting them at odds with some older people.

But, will they vote?

There was the huge youth movement of the early 60s thru early 70s....which brought about significant change. Since then, relative silence.

Will there be another youth movement?

I dunno.

Cheers
DD
 
  #46  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse View Post
*Climate change is a farce, ...but, yes there should be more done to clean up this world. But the finger is being pointed in the wrong direction for those who aren't filtering anything. Areas like India, China, Phillipines and S America pollute way more than the US. Yes I've been to a couple of these places and seen it and its disgusting...there are people living in squalor in these places to.
*I dare someone to come take my guns, for I have the constitutional right to take up arms against a tyrannical gov't (per the constitution)...not just defend my home and property. This aspect that somehow more background checks will solve shootings is ridiculous. There are already background checks (it takes a week to complete a check in FL) and seemingly the bad guys don't get them when they obtain them via the black market/underground. My weapons are registered also, but again, I bet the bad guys aren't registering theirs.
*Student debt recently was primarily a result of the Obama admin providing easier to get loans without the thought of the consequences...i.e. jobs being available afterward.
*National debt, see Obama admin (added nearly 10 trillion, doubling the debt and adding more than all previous admins combined), G W Bush added a fair chunk himself.
*Inequality?...of and or for what?
*Democrats had a super majority for 2 yrs with Obama (nothing could stop them from passing legislation) and they did zilch about what your crying about and yet you still blame Republicans. Some Dems had to jump the fence to prevent passage of some of those bills, so look in the mirror on that one.
Having worked at a college before and at the beginning of Obama, it really isn't all on him. He didn't help it, but he did continue to go down the same idiotic path that GWB and Clinton got us on. It absolutely is about loan availability. It seemed colleges stopped saying, "We charge X" to "What can you get".

In Michigan we have instant background checks and that is really it. If you buy a pistol you are required to get a copy of the sales record to the state police within 10 days post sale, but still is, walk in and walk out. I bought a Wilson Combat Centurion Tactical (fancy Beretta 92G) in the last month and I timed the whole thing out of curiosity. I went from entry to exit in about 40 minutes; and that included my background check, haggling, payment and everything in that time. If someone breaks into my house and steals that gun, really which is how a lot of guns end up in criminals hands, they aren't going to go to the cops and ensure that all of their records are up to date and only let them keep it if they pass a check. I know the gun shop people at two separate shops, and have even been offered employment at one a few times, and they do exercise discretion as they are NOT required to sell you a gun. If a guy wants to buy a gun and a partial box of ammo? NOPE to anything, he's got a death wish of some sort. Guy seems like he's not 100% there mentally or disheveled? NOPE, if he's at a real low point, he may have some sort of nefarious plan. I've literally been in shop during both scenarios. Gun shops do NOT want to sell a gun to a bad guy. They want to sell to enthusiasts and regular people. People that hope to never have to fire at a human being. They can and do stop sales that would absolutely pass a background check.

America does not like that the gun issue isn't so much about guns as mental health. Taking **** away is easier than figuring out people's noggins by a LONG shot. Stable people don't murder other people, especially en masse.

I'm an early 30s woman who tends to vote more conservative. That's not common as a millennial. I don't care who marries who, I don't care about religion, and I don't care about race. I do care about money and individual rights.
 

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  #47  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:20 AM
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  #48  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 80sRule View Post
America does not like that the gun issue isn't so much about guns as mental health. Taking **** away is easier than figuring out people's noggins by a LONG shot. Stable people don't murder other people, especially en masse.
Yup, we really should be focusing on why people want to kill others....and fix that. And, yes, especially the mass slaughters. It's the mass slaughters that are the true impetus of the debate.

Of course there is no single answer to the "Why?" question. And how we deal with mental health problems is another source of debate and concern. And fixing where we've failed might get expensive.

Cheers
DD

 
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  #49  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Your opinions notwithstanding, those are indeed some of the issues the younger generation is concerned about.

And, generally speaking, they're comfortable with ethnic diversity, homosexuality, and secularism ...putting them at odds with some older people.

But, will they vote?

There was the huge youth movement of the early 60s thru early 70s....which brought about significant change. Since then, relative silence.

Will there be another youth movement?

I dunno.

Cheers
DD
Thats the big question for 2020 of course.

During the last 2 years interest rates on student debt overall has risen quite a bit further exacerbating the problem.

Delinquency on student debt spiked after the great recession, which Obama inherited, but has started to rise considerably these last two years.

From bloomberg:Student Loan Delinquency Rate Remains Close To Post-Recession High

Student loans currently face the highest 90+ day delinquency rate of all household debt, including mortgages, credit cards and auto loans.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-to-get-worse

https://www.valuecolleges.com/collegecosts/



For some reason China is not on the list but is stated to be above the USA.

This does not bode well for the USA in the future for very obvious reasons.

Also from:
​​​​​​​https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.91d57332f8f5

Low taxes, rising Medicaid costs and, in many states, declining revenue from natural resources have produced painful conditions for both teachers and schools, with educators leaving en masse for higher-wage jobs, classroom conditions deteriorating and some districts even adopting four-day school weeks.
 

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  #50  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:52 AM
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"The United States ranks 12th in the world for young adults with a college education." Herein lies the real problem with student loan debt. Outside of the physical sciences, college students aren't receiving an education only an indoctrination with no useful skills or knowledge gained toward getting a job. They are dumber when they graduate and are paying enormous sums of money to get dumber. This is the impetus behind Uncle Bernie's success during the 2016 and the current campaigns. College is now a continuation of the failed politically correct curricula that starts in K-12 of most public learning institutions. History,and wisdom are carefully omitted and kids come out of school without any of the knowledge needed to succeed. We as a society would be in a much better place if we were putting less emphasis on a college education and teaching trade skills to kids who could then actually do something with them.
 
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  #51  
Old 03-25-2019, 11:26 AM
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I do tend to agree with you.

In one of the studies I listed it did refer to "useless degrees" with recipients being unemployable in any type of "good" job.
 
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  #52  
Old 03-25-2019, 05:50 PM
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For that stat on the Russians being 4th, I for one can tell you that most of those fall into jackra_1's statement about useless degrees. I was working in Manhattan and needed some wiring done, so the union shop foreman sent me over this guy who couldn't speak any English. I spoke some very poor Russian and got him to understand (or at least I thought I had) what I needed. I come back and its a total cluster, wrong wire, wrong place, he had no clue what he was doing. I came across another Russian later who spoke broken English and he said that the guy went to college and was a doctor back in Russia. I could only throw my hands up and walk away.

I don't know too many people who actually are doing what they went to college for? It comes down to who you know vs what you know, especially in Good Ol' Boy or Good Fella areas.

What year is that chart John? That article early on with that chart is talking in 1984-85, but later states about the cost in 2013-34. The latest I could find is 2012 and Russia isn't even listed and the US is 19th...
What this chart fails to include is the type of degree, heck...most could easily be associates degrees.
 
  #53  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:11 PM
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Ok I had to go back and decipher it. It actually said from 1984/1985 to 2014/2015. I put the / in to make it more clear. So it is 4 years "out of date".

I totally agree with "it comes down to who you know vs what you know".
 
  #54  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jackra_1 View Post
I do tend to agree with you.

In one of the studies I listed it did refer to "useless degrees" with recipients being unemployable in any type of "good" job.
I couldn't find the reference on quick perusal. I wonder what's on the list of 'useless degrees"?

I've been to a few college/university graduations in the last 10-15 years, including my own two kids', of course.. The vast majority of degrees...I'll toss out 80% as a number.....were career/vocation-related. Or they at least sounded that way.

If 'useless degrees' refers to music, theater, medieval literature....that sort of stuff... those have been trending significantly downward for quite some time now. Universities specifically known/identified as "Liberal Arts" schools are struggling; in the last couple decades more than half of them have closed, as I recall

Cheers
DD
 
  #55  
Old 03-25-2019, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 80sRule View Post

I'm an early 30s woman who tends to vote more conservative. That's not common as a millennial.

Right.

Teenage voting, specifically, really isn't the thing. We'd have to raise the voting age to at least 35, probably higher, to ensure a reliably conservative vote.

But....

While Millenials remain fairly reliably liberal, they're becoming disenchanted with Democrats and "establishment" politics.

Cheers
DD
 
  #56  
Old 03-26-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by tberg View Post
"The United States ranks 12th in the world for young adults with a college education." Herein lies the real problem with student loan debt. Outside of the physical sciences, college students aren't receiving an education only an indoctrination with no useful skills or knowledge gained toward getting a job. They are dumber when they graduate and are paying enormous sums of money to get dumber. This is the impetus behind Uncle Bernie's success during the 2016 and the current campaigns. College is now a continuation of the failed politically correct curricula that starts in K-12 of most public learning institutions. History,and wisdom are carefully omitted and kids come out of school without any of the knowledge needed to succeed.

I disagree with a lot of this ^^^^^. Might come back to it later


We as a society would be in a much better place if we were putting less emphasis on a college education and teaching trade skills to kids who could then actually do something with them.
I agree with this ^^^^

More specifically, I think the vast majority of kids would do perfectly well with a 2-year degree at a vocational school to provide the foundation to begin a decent career. Or a vocational major at the local 2-year community college.

I don't know how or when we got to the point of thinking that a 4-year college/university degree is so important. It isn't, for many kids and jobs. And employers are part of the problem as well. I may come back to that. Gotta run off to work !

Cheers
DD
 
  #57  
Old 03-26-2019, 09:22 AM
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One of the biggest failings of current k-12 and college is that they aren't pushing critical thinking, as well as listening and debating opposing viewpoints. The idea of being triggered and safe spaces really does cause life problems. Life is hard. There are people who think different and you may vehemently disagree with them. Just banning them and their thoughts from your little fiefdom of space does not truly address anything, it's ostrich logic.

I have always worked side by side skilled trades people and despite that I'm happy the route I took, I find it shameful how discouraged this route was by schools. Same with the military. The schools treat those as the options if you just aren't cut out for college and aren't that bright. That's offensive. Some of the smartest people I've ever met were skilled trades and military. Being a master electrician is a great living, you don't go into debt to get a job, and you can easily become a contractor and out earn college guy if you're driven.
 
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  #58  
Old 03-26-2019, 04:29 PM
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My education after high school was to get my FAA Airframe and Powerplant license and become an aircraft mechanic. Take my word for it, they don't teach English there.
But during my career, I was the person who would proofread the work of others, many of whom had college degrees because I had an excellent English teacher in grade school.
I was the 8th grade class valedictorian so I did pretty well in her class.
I don't think any college teaches spelling and grammar. If you don't learn spelling and grammar before you enter high school, you probably will never be good with spelling and grammar.
So we have many people who claim to be well educated, and they have documents to back up that claim, but they can't spell or use pronouns correctly.
They think "it's" is possessive because it contains an apostrophe. And they use the word "I" as the object of a preposition. Aaaargh!
OK, it's a common mistake, but if it's your job to know better, such as a journalist or news reporter....... I wonder where some of these people went to school, or who hired them.
It's so bad that I yell at the television news broadcasts when the anchor can't speak properly or when they put a message at the bottom of the screen that looks like a fifth grader wrote it in haste.
The English language is taking a beating these days. We started communicating with pictures thousands of years ago and suddenly we're right back where we started, except the cave men didn't have loads of student debt.
 
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  #59  
Old 03-26-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
Right.

Teenage voting, specifically, really isn't the thing. We'd have to raise the voting age to at least 35, probably higher, to ensure a reliably conservative vote.

But....

While Millenials remain fairly reliably liberal, they're becoming disenchanted with Democrats and "establishment" politics.

Cheers
DD
One thing is that typically conservatives are older, and critically, they actually get out and vote. Older people may participate less in rallies and polling, but they make it to the polls on voting day. It astounded me how many young people went to Bernie/Hillary rallies but then didn't go out to vote THE ONLY TIME THAT MATTERS. Grandpa up in the rural community went to the church/school/senior center/post office and actually voted; but you didn't see him go to any campaign events. Grandpa got who he voted for into office.
 
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  #60  
Old 03-26-2019, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by stu46h View Post

It's so bad that I yell at the television news broadcasts when the anchor can't speak properly or when they put a message at the bottom of the screen that looks like a fifth grader wrote it in haste.
The English language is taking a beating these days. We started communicating with pictures thousands of years ago and suddenly we're right back where we started, except the cave men didn't have loads of student debt.
Amen.

A big problem I see with many youngsters these days (actually, even 10-15 years ago) is an inability to organize their thoughts to compose an understandable, articulate spoken sentence. I put this down to using texting as a primary method of communication. It's not just a matter of a couple little flubs. Half of 'em, seemingly, just can't speak .

Cheers
DD
 
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