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Electoral college

 
  #61  
Old 03-26-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 80sRule View Post
One of the biggest failings of current k-12 and college is that they aren't pushing critical thinking, as well as listening and debating opposing viewpoints.
Can't debate (or even truly discuss) if you don't listen!


The idea of being triggered and safe spaces really does cause life problems.
The whole "safe place" thing is just silly. I think it's over. I hope so.

So is being "triggered"....in the context/manner I think you're referring to.

But in today's climate some people revel in being intentionally controversial to trigger a reaction from someone else. And/or "owning" someone. These I see across all age groups, personally



I have always worked side by side skilled trades people and despite that I'm happy the route I took, I find it shameful how discouraged this route was by schools. Same with the military. The schools treat those as the options if you just aren't cut out for college and aren't that bright. That's offensive. Some of the smartest people I've ever met were skilled trades and military. Being a master electrician is a great living, you don't go into debt to get a job, and you can easily become a contractor and out earn college guy if you're driven.
When I was in high school (mid 70s) college was primarily for:

- someone who wanted to become a 'professional'. Doctor, lawyer, teacher
- someone who wanted to work in a very specialized field (chemical engineering, let's say)
- someone whose parents (usually not the student!) wanted them to have exposure to a liberal arts education to make them a generally better informed and 'well rounded' person. That's before 'liberal arts' had such a nasty connotation. It wasn't mocked or disparaged as it is today.

Both my parents were college educated. My brother and I both skipped college and went into "the trades". There was certainly no shame, from our parents or anyone else.

What disturbs me is how many people....from all age groups, college educated or not.... seem to stop learning. Or, maybe it's just a case of some people having (and keeping) a much stronger natural curiosity than others. I dunno.

Cheers
DD
 
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  #62  
Old 03-27-2019, 08:26 AM
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I came from a poor area of northern PA, I started college, did rather well, but just couldn't afford it and I decided to go into the military (more original want anyways). I enjoyed it, met some great people, a number of whom were going to college while serving. This is in the early 80's, so computer classes were not exactly available. I probably would of made the military a career if I hadn't been stationed where I was...it was very cold or very hot and our equipment sucked.

I've wound up working for the Dept of State for awhile, went to S America to help build an embassy and now I'm a contractor. I make way more than I would of for what I went to college for...I guess that statement "I found my calling" came to fruition.

What I've been through kind of covers what's been said the past few posts. Life is hard ...suck it up buttercup (parenting 101) ...without participation you accomplish nothing (going to rallies to feel good, then not vote) ...don't expect others to do for you, you need to do for yourself (life is not planned, you make it what it is).
 
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  #63  
Old 03-27-2019, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
So is being "triggered"....in the context/manner I think you're referring to.

But in today's climate some people revel in being intentionally controversial to trigger a reaction from someone else. And/or "owning" someone. These I see across all age groups, personally




When I was in high school (mid 70s) college was primarily for:

- someone who wanted to become a 'professional'. Doctor, lawyer, teacher
- someone who wanted to work in a very specialized field (chemical engineering, let's say)
- someone whose parents (usually not the student!) wanted them to have exposure to a liberal arts education to make them a generally better informed and 'well rounded' person. That's before 'liberal arts' had such a nasty connotation. It wasn't mocked or disparaged as it is today.

Both my parents were college educated. My brother and I both skipped college and went into "the trades". There was certainly no shame, from our parents or anyone else.

What disturbs me is how many people....from all age groups, college educated or not.... seem to stop learning. Or, maybe it's just a case of some people having (and keeping) a much stronger natural curiosity than others. I dunno.

Cheers
DD
If you know someone gets offended by everything and is triggered easily, and you provoke them simply for their negative reaction, that's just trolling. While that is occasionally fun, a lot of the time it's just a new label of being a jerk. If you challenge their world view for a reason of discussion or actual engagement beyond a "I got you good you f***er;" then that's different.

Liberal Arts degrees get a bad rap, but the financial question is usually why they get singled out. If you can't give an acceptable ROI on the cost of a degree in any pathway, should the federal government be involved in subsidizing it; whether it simply be loaning you the money at an interest rate, no interest while in school, or with free money altogether? If you or your parents want to spend your money on a degree of any kind, GO FOR IT! If you want other people to pay for it, then lets visit the topics of cost, career prospects, career income, acceptable tuition rates, etc.

The movie Good Will Hunting when Will points out the learning at the library versus attending the college. You can learn for free at any time, you won't have a degree, but knowledge is more available than ever before and out there for the learning. That movie came out when the internet was really in its end user infancy, and even a public library could house a lifetime of learning opportunity. With the internet, you can watch a video of a monkey washing a cat, learn a language, pirate a hootie and the blowfish album, or read literature from thousands of years ago; all while taking a dump. Never stop learning.
 
  #64  
Old 03-27-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Doug View Post
The whole "safe place" thing is just silly. I think it's over. I hope so.
I think this is wishful thinking. The underlying phenomena that can explain "safe spaces" is transition from dignity culture to vicimhood culture. That is, under victimhood culture, being seen as prosecuted or oppressed confers high social status; therefore it is beneficial to one's social standing to place oneself into situation with intent of getting aggrieved. "Safe space" is to social discourse is what "construction zone" to speed limits. Until this cultural shift reverses we will have to continue dealing with "safe spaces" and similar concepts.
 
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  #65  
Old 03-27-2019, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 80sRule View Post
If you know someone gets offended by everything and is triggered easily, and you provoke them simply for their negative reaction, that's just trolling. While that is occasionally fun, a lot of the time it's just a new label of being a jerk.
This is poor definition for "being a jerk" as it externalizes and anchors this concept to reactions of others. That is, you admit that other parties are being unreasonable, yet label someone a jerk for failing to accommodate their unreasonableness.

By this definition, you are a jerk for not sending me a gift of $1000. Never mind that it is unreasonable for me to expect such gift from you.
 
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  #66  
Old 03-27-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse View Post
The problem with the jerks and ******** in government are those ignorant jerks and ******** that continuously vote them in term after term. That is why I am for term limits ...and no, 16 yr olds have no right voting for something they haven't even been taught about in school.

Our government was not originally designed to have a year round employed Congress, they were only supposed to show up every couple of months to conduct the countries business, then go back to their lives in their states. The states were to govern themselves as independents, the federal government was to provide security for the states and work in conjunction with them when law bounded borders, but not participate in it.

The basic definition of the 10th Amendment is:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This aspect that our federal government is the go to source for how we conduct states business, has been totally misconstrued from poor teachings and people who simply fail to comprehend the Constitution itself.

As for the electoral college, it was designed so populace states like NY and Calif can't rule dictatorially over smaller or less populace states. Thus creating a monarchy for which we declared our independence from.

Well stated!!


Without the EC, the entire United States would be controlled by New York City (much to the disappointment of those of us who live in other parts of the state!!); Boston, MA; Philadelphia, PA; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; and Los Angeles, CA.....6 cities. Think about that, 6 cities controlling the ENTIRE country!!
 
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  #67  
Old 03-27-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF View Post
This is poor definition for "being a jerk" as it externalizes and anchors this concept to reactions of others. That is, you admit that other parties are being unreasonable, yet label someone a jerk for failing to accommodate their unreasonableness.

By this definition, you are a jerk for not sending me a gift of $1000. Never mind that it is unreasonable for me to expect such gift from you.
There's obviously nuance. but I was referring to people who go out of their way to poke the bear for no reason at all other than to poke the bear. The negative reaction is the ONLY reason they did it. It'd be more like me sending you a penny in the mail lol. Even then, I am a jerk a lot of the time and don't care if people call me one. I do like your comment about externalization and anchoring the concept to reactions of others. That's a really eloquent and accurate way of putting it.

Being in the LGBT spaces I DEFINITELY get tired of people getting upset at me, because I was as you stated, failed to accommodate their unreasonableness. This last weekend I had someone throw a b**** fit over my eating Chik-Fil-A despite the conservative nature of some higher ups in the company. Me being a jerk was when they said "we can't be friends anymore" was saying "I never was your friend and never planned on being one."
 
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  #68  
Old 03-27-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 80sRule View Post
There's obviously nuance.
You must be new to the whole Internet thing.

Originally Posted by 80sRule View Post
I was referring to people who go out of their way to poke the bear for no reason at all other than to poke the bear. The negative reaction is the ONLY reason they did it.
While outright harassment and stalking do exist, for what is normally defined as trolling to take place it takes two willing participants - troll and person getting trolled. For example, I can proceed to tell you that your favorite band sucks, but I can't make you respond with outrage, and if you just roll your eyes and fail to take the bait then trolling completely fails. My point is that trolling isn't like getting punched in the face, you should also consider the role of personal responsibility in avoiding overreacting (i.e. getting trolled).
 
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  #69  
Old 03-30-2019, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse
As for the electoral college, it was designed so populace states like NY and Calif can't rule dictatorially over smaller or less populace states. Thus creating a monarchy for which we declared our independence from.Actually, from what I understand, the Electoral College was designed not to protect the rural areas from the cities, but the exact opposite. The genius is that it does has done both.Back in colonial days, cities didn't have a population advantage over rural areas, as most people were farmers. The move to the cities occurred later, during the Industrial Revolution.That's how effective the Electoral College is. Today, what Highhorse said is exactly true.
 
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by stu46h View Post
Originally Posted by Highhorse
As for the electoral college, it was designed so populace states like NY and Calif can't rule dictatorially over smaller or less populace states. Thus creating a monarchy for which we declared our independence from.Actually, from what I understand, the Electoral College was designed not to protect the rural areas from the cities, but the exact opposite. The genius is that it does has done both.Back in colonial days, cities didn't have a population advantage over rural areas, as most people were farmers. The move to the cities occurred later, during the Industrial Revolution.That's how effective the Electoral College is. Today, what Highhorse said is exactly true.
In actuality, states don't have internal electoral voting (that would help our system though), they are a true Democracy, so the city vs country comparison is irrelevant (though it points out how cities screw up the rest of the state by imposing their mentality)...but in perspective, the city areas are the most populace now. It was designed so NY couldn't tell Rhode Island or Delaware what to do and those states having equal say. But in aspect, today's population shift and the addition of new states since the initial signing of the Constitution, shows the system still functions as intended.

And because it does function, losers want to change it to benefit them.
 
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  #71  
Old 04-01-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Highhorse View Post
...And because it does function, losers want to change it to benefit them.
^^^^
This!!!
 
 
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