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Honda DI Problems!

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Old 11-03-2018, 11:16 PM
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Default Honda DI Problems!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVdKNRgzGT8&feature=youtu.be

This was sent to me from a friend at Honda! It looks like they have some serious problems with their direct injected engines. I'd be concerned that anyone would tell me it is ok for oil level to increase due to cylinder fuel wash-down. At the very least, the oil is compromised significantly and I'd be changing it at first indication of increase on the dip stick!

Has anyone with a DI Jag noticed increase in oil level like the video describes? My 5.0 XK doesn't have an oil dip-stick but I pop the fill cap on occasion and have yet to smell fuel which is what the Hondas should be expecting.
 
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Old 11-04-2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by pwpacp View Post
... My 5.0 XK doesn't have an oil dip-stick but I pop the fill cap on occasion ....
No dipstick but a filler cap?!!
How ya s'posed to know to put oil in when you have a leak (I have it on Very good authority that ALL Jags leak)??
Or is that just for refilling after a change or when you guess it's leaked out a quart?
Hmmm...
(';')

 
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
No dipstick but a filler cap?!!
How ya s'posed to know to put oil in when you have a leak (I have it on Very good authority that ALL Jags leak)??
Or is that just for refilling after a change or when you guess it's leaked out a quart?
Hmmm...
(';')
Newer Jaguars use an electronic dipstick - you pull it up in the menu on the instrument panel and it tells you your oil level. Personally, I'd rather have a good, old fashioned dipstick too; they are pretty much idiot-proof!

Dwayne
 
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:32 AM
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Yes I have a 2018 Accord. The 2018 Accord 1.5T models are affected by the same issue but Honda refuses to acknowledge. Honda is the worst I've ever dealt with for acknowledging issues with the car and will do everything to claim that any issues are normal, and then do NOTHING about it.

My Accord has had a ton of issues, most of them relating to the turbo system.
 
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dga57 View Post
Newer Jaguars use an electronic dipstick - you pull it up in the menu on the instrument panel and it tells you your oil level. Personally, I'd rather have a good, old fashioned dipstick too; they are pretty much idiot-proof!

Dwayne
Actually its not idiot proof. Honda has managed to put the most impossible dipstick in the Accord, perhaps because they knew about the oil dilution issue and wanted to make it hard for owners to realize there was a problem
 
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Old 11-05-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dga57 View Post
I'd rather have a good, old fashioned dipstick too; they are pretty much idiot-proof!
It would shock you how many idiots dont have the dipstick all the down and sealed- thus causing bad emissions.
Then there is the other half who have never touched their dipstick or opened the bonnet.
Then the idiots who read a dipstick wrong.
-forcing manufacturers to eliminate them, at least on the upper cars in first world markets.
 
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:14 AM
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A brilliant explanation/ analysis of di problems.
Cheap oil culprit.
Jaguar oil is a bargain
 
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:41 PM
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Can somebody please tell me how to read this "idiotproof" Honda dipstick???

This is what my dipstick looked like before I had the oil changed the first time. It smelled strongly of gasoline. I brought it up to the Honda dealer. Honda wrote that the dipstick measured right at the full mark.


 
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Old 11-05-2018, 04:54 PM
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With a dipstick like that, the black line near the tip is the low mark and the black line near the metal band/stick is the high mark. As a general rule, there is about a quart of fluid between the two.

Every manufacturer has the way they consider the fluid to be checked. So, read the owners manual as that should tell you how it should be read. Yes, some manufacturers recommend checking it with the engine running, but most say to have the car on a level surface with the engine off. From there, remove the dipstick, clean it off, quickly dunk it in and then back out and see where the oil run completely across the orange part of the stick (in this case). You may see where oil is on the side of the orange pill or simply not across the whole end, that would be oil that has been splashed up inside the dipstick tube.
 
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:34 PM
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Yes but the problem is the oil is so thin its impossible to see where the level actually is. Honda really bungled the design on these dipsticks.

In the photo, the dipstick was wiped clean before pulling out
 
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Old 11-05-2018, 09:51 PM
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Normally you can look at the dipstick at an angle with a light relfecting off of it. You can see where the dipstick will change how shiny it is. That is where the oil level is. New thinner oils do make checking the oil level more difficult. But, there are ways around it.
 
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:00 AM
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I think the first photo I posted makes it look simpler than it is. Here's another photo using Honda's recommended method of letting the engine run warm, then shut it off for three minutes, wipe the dipstick, and then check the oil level. The only thing I can confirm is that the oil level is not low. Beyond that, I haven't the slightest idea what the true oil level is.
 
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:45 AM
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This is the issue that manufactures were dealing with- in reality most dont know how to check the oil level using a stick and its not as easy as it seems.

Do this as an alternative to the Honda recommendations (they have to take multiple variables in consideration)
Drain all the oil.
Refill with the specified amount.
Now note what the dipstick reads with the oil completely cool.
Also mark the location of where your car was parked when you took the cold measurement.

Now you will be able to measure oil level without warming up and guessing. The other benefit of taking cold measurement is that the oil completely returns to the sump so that you wont get oil on top of stick still dripping down making it hard to discern actual level.

One warning, now only measure oil when its completely cool and in the same spot and your new marking will be your reference.

If anyone knows a reason why the Honda oil should be measured warm or after its circulated please do correct me.
 
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:06 PM
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The reason I heard for measuring the oil while the engine is running is you don't care where the oil level is when the motor is not running other than having enough to get a suction when the motor starts. With the engine running, a finite amount of oil is inside the engine and therefore the level inside the sump will be lower. This is the level that you really care about. Having the level too low, you can loose suction on a hard corner. Too high and you can have the engine internals running through the oil, causing undo stresses and foaming of the oil (leading to inadequate oil flow since you will also be pumping air).

Granted, one can argue that any good engineer could offset the dipstick accordingly to account for what oil should be in the engine and then allow the person to check the oil with the engine off.
 

Last edited by Thermo; 11-06-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:31 PM
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Why so many manufacturers consistently getting DI wrong? Do they not QA new engine designs with recommended service schedule?

Personally, I would never follow long oil change interval on a car with DI engine. This is just signing yourself up for trouble. We had seen intake sludge, oil consumption, chain wear, fuel in oil... Frequent oil changes address or mitigate all of these.

This is just the next chapter with lifetime fluid fill transmissions. No such thing. Change your fluids frequently and use quality synthetic fluids.
 
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Old 11-06-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF View Post
Why so many manufacturers consistently getting DI wrong? Do they not QA new engine designs with recommended service schedule?

Personally, I would never follow long oil change interval on a car with DI engine. This is just signing yourself up for trouble. We had seen intake sludge, oil consumption, chain wear, fuel in oil... Frequent oil changes address or mitigate all of these.

This is just the next chapter with lifetime fluid fill transmissions. No such thing. Change your fluids frequently and use quality synthetic fluids.
+1 on that totally agree.
 
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:27 PM
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Bottom line--don't buy a new Honda. Any new Honda.
 
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Old 11-07-2018, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SinF View Post
Why so many manufacturers consistently getting DI wrong? Do they not QA new engine designs with recommended service schedule?
Discovering widespread, real world, long term effects of DI was only possible by waiting long term for the public to report back.
We are the Guinea pigs and testers.

It will shock you how small of a percentage actually want longevity out of a car. They rather have the alternative, fewer oil changes, lower lease payments. Think about it, of all the metrics advertised to sell a new car, mpg, warranty, features...there isnt even a metric for longevity.
 
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:56 AM
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Lower lease payments are only possible if the car is capable of longevity. Lease costs are initial price minus residual. If your car is junk after 8 years, then residual will tank at all points in its life and make it more expensive to lease.

Metric for longevity is residual value, and brands that hold value absolutely advertise it.
 
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:11 PM
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If lease residual is the metric for longevity- then the transmission is sealed for life, because useful life is determined by how long it can be leased for.

Even though lease payments are based on what a manufacturer will buy a car back for, (if it was based on what it resells for, cars such as the FJ Cruiser would be free).
Dont go past the word lease. If you lease a home, do you care how long the roof will last. Ever seen a rental developer use roofs that come with 100 year warranty.
Logic would state it makes more sense for everyone to have a tile roof.
But the rot starts with consumers themselves wanting something impermanent- or leased.

what percentage of consumers actually keep a car for its entire useful life?
Thus, do you make a transmission that requires service by the 4th owner (and they do- thats why there is a drain pan) or do you just tell owner number 1 and 2 that its sealed for life.
 

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