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Some myth busting data.

 
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:32 AM
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Default Some myth busting data.

I have always had an interest in vehicle reliability and longevity, and as exasperating as old Jaguars can be, personal experience has always led me back to them whenever I have strayed elsewhere. Until this morning, I had never found any hard evidence to support my contention that Jaguars are as good as anything, and better than most, but now I have:
Mean survival rates for cars registered in 2003 still extant in 2016 extracted from www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1663427&i=0:

Compact executive cars.
Audi A4 diesel 72.54%
petrol 71.75%
BMW 3 Series diesel 73.72%
petrol 76.89%
Jaguar X-Type diesel 69.18%
petrol 79.90%
Mercedes Benz C class diesel 65.50%
petrol 73.57%

Executive cars.
Audi A6 diesel 68.17%
petrol no data
BMW 5 series diesel 72.77%
petrol 70.04%
Jaguar S-Type petrol 84.97% (no diesel avaiable)
Mecedes Benz E class diesel 48.23%
petrol 76.64%
Full size luxury cars.
Audi A8 66.93%
BMW 7 series 67.42%
Jaguar XJ 91.19%
Mercedes Benz S class 80.91%
Lexus LS 430 84.82%
Obviously the figures don't tell the full story, but they do indicate that if you like to buy a car and keep it, especially a luxo barge, it's hard to beat a Jag.
 
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:28 PM
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This is very interesting data. As much work as I have done to mine (admittedly one is not "on the road" but I am working on it) I honestly find it a bit surprising. Not only the Jaguar part but the M-B part. Why does Mercedes have such a good rep with those numbers?? I have never heard the phrase "if youre going to have a Mercedes as your first car, you had better have a wrecker as your second" but I have heard it about Jaguar. hmmmm.
 
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:11 PM
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It just goes to show that petrol is much better than diesel.for longevity.
Although, there was never an actor called 'Vin Petrol'.
Can you imagine the first Mad Max film and he had to leap in to the beast and it went, chunks, chunka, chunka, fart, pop?
That would have totally ruined the mood.
Mind you, I am kind off going back to the 'good old days' of lifeboat engines where you had to wind it up like fury and then throw the compression lever over; keep your thumb inside your palm otherwise it will get broken; the kick back was quite strong
Stuck to that all, for decades, and then came home one day and my dog bit my thumb off anyway.
What a waste of all of that hard earned education.
Bless.
 
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:51 PM
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What happened to the dog?
I know what would have happened to it where I grew up!
(';')
 
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
It just goes to show that petrol is much better than diesel.for longevity.
Although, there was never an actor called 'Vin Petrol'.
Can you imagine the first Mad Max film and he had to leap in to the beast and it went, chunks, chunka, chunka, fart, pop?
That would have totally ruined the mood.
Mind you, I am kind off going back to the 'good old days' of lifeboat engines where you had to wind it up like fury and then throw the compression lever over; keep your thumb inside your palm otherwise it will get broken; the kick back was quite strong
Stuck to that all, for decades, and then came home one day and my dog bit my thumb off anyway.
What a waste of all of that hard earned education.
Bless.
I'm not sure that it does demonstrate the relative longevity of petrol vs diesel. In that generation, large diesel cars were mostly taxis, so would probably have covered bigger mileages. Now of course, with the search for increased power and reduced emissions from diesels, they have become much less reliable.
As young men, we frequntly referred to anything rough and unattractive, especially girls, as "a bit of a diesel". :-) My generation never really got the Diesel designer label.

My thumb hurts from reading that.
 
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:54 PM
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Interesting data concerning reliability. It may all be true; I don't know. What I DO know is that I have owned 65 vehicles in my lifetime, two of which were Jaguars. Those two cars hold the distinction of being the only vehicles I've ever owned that have required a tow. Granted that is not scientific data, but it was reason enough to lead me toward another brand. It's a shame because they were two of the most beautiful cars I've ever owned but it's hard to be impressed by their styling when you're sitting on the side of the road awaiting a tow.

Dwayne
 
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Old 02-09-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Etypephil View Post
I have always had an interest in vehicle reliability and longevity,



Two different things, as I'm sure you recognize !


Obviously the figures don't tell the full story, but they do indicate that if you like to buy a car and keep it, especially a luxo barge, it's hard to beat a Jag.
Lots left to interpretation and discussion but it does prove, if nothing else, that a Jaguar can be as long-lived, or more long-lived, than the competition.

Cheers
DD
 
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Old 02-09-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dga57 View Post
Interesting data concerning reliability.

I see nothing in the info posted that suggests less/greater reliability specifically. It might be speculated, though, that very unreliable cars could have shorter lifespans....because they're sent to the scrapyard sooner as owners throw their arms up in disgust


It may all be true; I don't know. What I DO know is that I have owned 65 vehicles in my lifetime, two of which were Jaguars. Those two cars hold the distinction of being the only vehicles I've ever owned that have required a tow. Granted that is not scientific data, but it was reason enough to lead me toward another brand. It's a shame because they were two of the most beautiful cars I've ever owned but it's hard to be impressed by their styling when you're sitting on the side of the road awaiting a tow.

Dwayne
Understandable, of course. And, of course, experiences vary.

I've been driving Jags for 22 years and have been on the back of a tow truck only once. And, in that one case, it was due to a mistake I made.

Cheers
DD


 
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:42 PM
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Early in my ownership Nix spent a Lot of time on the Flat Bed coming home. So much so in fact, that husband was glad he had subscribed to 200 mile towing when I got the car, because I had also joined a Jaguar Club and we like to travel with them far and wide.

She hasn't been towed for 3 years as of now, because those troublesome items have either been repaired, replaced, modified, deleted, or otherwise resolved.

In the last 3 years the Hyundai has been carted home more than once, and it's NEARLY NEW being only 10 years old!
(';')
 
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:53 PM
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In all fairness, I failed to mention that the first of my two Jaguars (2004 X-Type) was purchased new and the second (2011 XJL) was purchased used, but still new enough to have quite a bit of its factory new car warranty intact. The incidents that required towing were both mechanical and in no way related to anything I did or didn't do. The XJL had been dealer-serviced from new and the X-Type failed long before the first service was required. Neither had any modifications. Maybe I was expecting too much but, considering the price of these cars, I find that unacceptable. If I had bought a 30-year-old Jag that had "who knows what" done to it by "who knows who", I would be more forgiving and willing to work through the problems. I generally don't keep daily drivers more than a few years and we tend to be low mileage drivers - in 2004 we purchased two: the aforementioned X-Type for my wife and a Lincoln Town Car for me. We kept both cars until 2007 and they were both right around 20,000 miles when replaced. During that time, the X-Type was in the shop for warranty repairs four times, the most serious issue of which was replacement of the steering rack. By comparison, the Town Car had only one warranty claim and that was because the stitching on the center armrest pulled loose. Whatever I buy to use as a daily driver; car, SUV, or truck, I want it to perform in such a way that my travels are predictable and uneventful. Sadly, I did not find either of the Jaguars capable of that.

Dwayne
 
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Old 02-09-2019, 11:42 PM
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When you're sitting by the side of the road, be consoled that more people get the opportunity to experience your beautiful car.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jestocost View Post
When you're sitting by the side of the road, be consoled that more people get the opportunity to experience your beautiful car.
Well, there IS that....
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:47 AM
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Hmm, happened to me too, busted gearbox last year
 
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:11 PM
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Given the statistically huge disparity in those numbers, I would like to see a lot more about the demographics of those owners, ie. individual vs. corporate, purchase vs. lease, aspirational purchase vs. DD, etc. I know I will skew those numbers, asintend to keep my totally trouble free '15 F-type until they put me in the ground (or the greenies confiscate it). I just hope there are replacements for the too many plastic bits that will become more brittle than an oldster's hip.
 
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:58 PM
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Phil as a manufacturer/ designer I can share a data point with you that most consumers are unaware of.
Most products, including cars end up in the trash not because they quit working; rather they go out of style/ relevance/ functionality.
So the single biggest factor that contributes to longevity is good design.

Think of how many leather chairs from the 60s have ended up being discarded.
While an Eames chair from the same period and same leather is worth more.
Regardless, its worth upholstering and essentially lasting forever.

The Etype is the other example.

Who cares if a seat and an engine will last 30 years if it is in a 1990 Toyota Camry- most of them went to the junkyard in great mechanical condition.
I donated my Mazda 6, it was perfect, just obsolete.
 
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