im looking for an intermittent battery drain issue. About 35ma current draw when car is off, but I noticed that I can turn the radio off and on without the key in the car. Is this normal or maybe a problem? Also how hard is it to change ignition switches? I think the micro switch in mine that turns off when the key is removed sticks occasionally. Any ideas appreciated. I知 a car guy and have rebuilt corvettes and old chevys, but totally new to jaguars, but I think I知 going to love this car.

 

35mA is OK.

I don't have that era car so don't know about the radio on/off.

If the flap sticks you can (allegedly) have a biggish drain. That does not happen on my car (have had the key in overnight and no excess drain) but again I have a very different car as there was a massive redesign in 2003 (USA; 2002.5MY here).

BTW wrong forum...

 

I've moved your question from General Tech Help to S-Type forum. This is the place to post technical questions about your model.

It's possible a PO has modified the radio feed to be permanently live.

Graham

 

Yes do some more measuring because anything under 50 ma is considered OK as JagV8 said above?

Oops looks like Jaguar wants 30ma or less?
See attached chart.
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Not normal at all. More details of normal operation below.



It's easy to test the little shutter in the ignition switch by observing the auto retract function of the steering column. I've combined the normal response with details of how the radio behaves on my '02. But first, on the left side of the steering column, you will see a round switch that controls the column telescopic function. Rotate the switch to the auto position so the column automatically retracts when you remove the key, and extends when inserted.

Here's the sequence of events for the radio and the steering column.

1) Car off, doors locked, key (hopefully) removed. The steering column is retracted, and the radio panel is blank.

2) Unlock door and sit inside, key still not installed. Column and radio panel unchanged.

3) Put key in ignition but don't turn it. Steering column extends. No change on radio panel.

4) Turn key to start, and then release to run. Steering column stays extended. Radio panel lights up fully, showing the time, radio band, and frequency. Dashboard gauge needles all go to normal. Heat/AC panel lights up.

5) Turn key one position back to turn off engine. Key still in ignition. Gauge needles all drop to left. Heat/AC panel goes blank. Radio panel still shows time, radio band, and frequency.

6) Turn key all the way back, but don't remove. Radio panel now only shows time display, and only for about ten seconds.

7) Remove key. Steering column retracts.


That should give you an idea if the key shutter switch is responding normally.

For troubleshooting the radio power supply, try the cigarette lighter. It is powered through the same pole of the ignition switch, and should lose power when the key is off. If the cigarette lighter still works with the key removed, that pole of the ignition switch is staying on.

Wiring diagrams here:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...01999.25en.pdf


The radio is in section 15.1 or 15.2. The cigarette lighter is in section 19.1. The ignition switch is in section 1.4.

 

Thanks so much for you help with this. I just got home but I will run through this procedure tomorrow. Really appreciate all the detailed references

Bill M in VA

 

You're very welcome. Hope the info helps isolate the root cause of the problem.

Forgot to mention two minor things:

1) My car has the factory premium sound system. The panel display may act differently on the base version. Of course, all bets are off if you have an aftermarket system, or the factory system was rewired to always have power.

2) The radio was left on so it would power on and off with the ignition.

 

thanks to kr98664,
I just ran through the procedure you posted and my car acted just as you outlined through all steps. The cigarette lighter does not work with the key removed, but the radio will still come on when you push the button and stay on. Also I noticed that after completing step six the radio does correctly show only time and such for ten seconds before going out, but after that if I push the menu button it shows the time for about ten seconds also before going out. Finally the radio will still come on and stay on when the button is pushed. From this I think I can say that the ignition switch is most likely OK and the problem may be with the radio wiring....... just checked the maintenance records for the car and coincidentally the radio was replaced at 17100 miles along with some engine computer module? Both done by the dealer where it was purchased.

My thinking now now is to run the quiescent current drain test provided by Jag V8 and see if that leads me somewhere, unless there are other ideas. Thanks again for the detailed procedure, it痴 very helpful,to know you池e at least heading in the right direction

one last thought I almost forgot. With the key removed and all indicators out when I push either the radio or menu buttons I can faintly hear a relay picking up,somewhere?

Bill M

 

Sorry I forgot to correctly say I am going to run the quiescent current draw test provided by clubairth1 as my next step

 

Do the maintenance records mention why the radio and PCM were replaced? Makes me wonder if it was due to a slow battery drain like you are experiencing, meaning it was never really fixed.

The faint clicking? Have a helper push the buttons while you listen around the car. Could there be some aftermarket components installed, like an amplifier or alarm?

 

Will call the dealer tomorrow and ask if their records show why. That痴 unusual that the radio would be replaced at such low mileage and the PCM at the same time. Will post if I get any other info. Thanks again for the help

 

well I just spent all,afternoon chasing my tail and proving a point already made by other members. First as soon as I started the test ( per procedure provided in a previous post) it looked like I only had about 20ma current draw, good so far....after an hour it still read the same thing so I moved the leads over to the 300 ma plug and it said overload.... long story short I had an internal fuse in my meter blown from some previous misadventure giving me a false reading. After fixing that I initially had about a 1.8 amp draw at test start prior to sleep mode. After an hour I looked and my meter had auto shut off so I hit the button to restart it and immediately heard some clicks in the car somewhere in the trunk area I think, thereby in my opinion restarting the sleep timer. Confirmed this by getting overload indication and switching back to the 10amp scale and reading the same 1.8 amp. So the present status is that I believe I have proven that if you do ANYTHING in the circuit such as changing meter scales, or disconnecting anything in the test circuit it starts things all,over. Sorry for being so wordy but I have to either get a new meter or figure some way to keep it from turning off. Any opinions or ideas greatly appreciated. I also read in the audio system manual for the car that once the ignition is switched off and key removed you can turn radio on and it will shut itself down in about an hour. Haven稚 tested that yet but it may be the answer to my question about the radio working without the switch in the ignition. Just to be sure, I double checked the test setup to be sure nothing like interior lights, door open or anything like that was happening. I知 frustrated but determined to get to the bottom of this. Thanks to all for your continuing help.

 

Well, my face is red. That's exactly how my '02 behaves. Turns out I was less correct than usual. (We don't use the W word...)

If the radio was already on with the ignition, it shut off when the key was turned all the back. I figured that was it and never thought to try turning on the radio with the ignition off or the key removed. Sure enough, one push on the button and the radio powered back on. Sorry for any confusion earlier stating there was something wrong with your radio. I just never thought to try it like that.

When you said your radio worked with the key off or removed, I thought you meant it stayed on by itself. Now I realize you have to manually push the button to turn it back on, and it will run for about an hour like that.

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That痴 no problem at all, your suggestion got me moving in the right direction so that I was able to eliminate one source of the problem. I like the idea of being 斗ess correct蚤s opposed to being the W word. Might try that with the wife next time I知 tempted to tell her I was wrong 😊

im still going to go after this battery drain issue but it痴 harder to do then I first thought. After looking at the wiring diagrams for awhile I致e realized that even though the car is 17 years old it has some pretty sophisticated circuits. First step is to replace the old Fluke 77 I致e been using since the late nineties. This gives me a good excuse to buy a new meter. Will post again when I have some idea of what痴 going on. Thanks again to everyone for the ideas and suggestions. It really helps to have a large group,of knowledge people helping out. I致e been trying to figure out how long it would take to drain the battery with a constant 150-200ma draw. Assuming you had the ratings on the battery and it was fully charged it should be something you could calculate. Just hasn稚 popped in my brain yet how to do that. Any Ideas?

 

If you're careful you can leave the meter off the car and let the car shut down then connect meter between cable and (bottom of) battery post and disconnect the cable (use the -ve). (Need meter already on current setting.)

It can be easier if you connect a wire to the bottom of the battery post in advance - have a think about it...

 

Thanks for the idea. I will give that a try. I already made up some long jumper wires so I can leave them hanging outside the trunk and connect the meter after the car completes shutdown. I did notice yesterday when I changed scales on my meter it seemed to activate something inside the car so I assumed I had interrupted the shut down process. That may have been due to my meter having a bad fuse though. I知 going to get a new one and try the test again. Will post once I do that and will sure try doing it as you suggest. Thanks for the suggestion

 

It will be disconnected as you switch scales so first reconnect the normal car power (well, ground) lead.

 

Yes you found one of the paradox's in chasing current drains. ANYTHING you do to the car will awaken it and you start the clock counting down again! Which really adds to the time to troubleshoot it.

Here is how I solved that. I don't like using my good meter to measure current (Fluke 87) it's too expensive and you almost always end up blowing the internal fuse. I have seen meters that use circuit breakers instead which really speeds up things! My Power Probe is built like this.

But to check for current drain you must somehow either keep your meter on all the time or do what I did and use a clamp on ammeter. Plus your clamp on ammeter needs to read all the way down to Ma. This is the sticky point because most of the clamp on ammeters you see are rated for up to hundreds of amps because that is easy to measure.

I got a GTC CM100. This will measure down to .01 Amp plus since it's a clamp on meter it will NOT reawaken the car because you are not making or breaking any connections that will turn the car back on. They are about $140.
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Rats, you beat me to it! I looked at getting a GTC CM100 myself, but went a slightly different route.

The CM100 is a great piece of equipment, but doesn't have a min/max recording feature. If you had some transient condition, you wouldn't know unless you were watching the meter at that particular moment. I wanted to be able to leave the meter running overnight and see if anything unusual registered during that time.

I went with a PDI CA-60 instead. This isn't a self-contained unit, but is used in conjuction with a regular DVOM. This lets me use the min/max recording feature on my trusty Fluke 83.

There are pros and cons to each version. The CA-60 meter is less expensive, and lets you use any special features on your existing DVOM. The CM100 is more convenient to use, as it is fully self-contained, and can also be used for voltage and resistance measurements.

GTC CM100:





PDI CA-60:





If you poke around online, you may find less expensive badge-engineered versions of both meters.

 

Thanks to all of you for the continued suggestions. I知 going to look around and see what I can find online. It痴 now obvious to me that if I知 going to do this right I have to have the right meter to do it. I知 learning more about the car everyday, so I guess that痴 the silver lining to having this battery drain problem. I will sure post again when I have more information and hopefully the right meter. Thanks again to all........