First time poster.... great forum, some excellent contributions.

OK, after many years of driving old and very cheap (but reliable) cars, I had a mid-life crisis and decided it would be nice to have, for the first time in my life, a car I would actually like. I'm fairly good mechanically, having replaced gear boxes, rebuilt a couple of engines, replacing valve bodies and general maintenance, etc however, all of this is on older, simpler, pre-super electronicified cars from the 1980s/90s. I'm not afraid to take on small to medium sized jobs (though I haven't got the capability to remove or swap engines where I live).

So, I've seen a 2000 S-type 4.0 with 60K on it, been kept garaged in winters and drives lovely and has been well maintained at a Jaguar dealership. The exterior, interior and underneath the car are fairly much like... well new. I'm close to going for it, but:

True to form, I'm hesitating. After reading horror stories of this year and model overheating on this forum, and feedback on carsurvey.org for this year and model, I'm now not so sure. Don't get me wrong, I know Jaguars don't have the reputation of being ultra reliable cars, and of course, being realistic, I expect an uptick in maintenance and costs, so my question is: are they that bad? Do any of you have this model and have reached 120K without *major* issues? I know that you will always read the bad as people are motivated to criticize when things go wrong, but its hard to gauge when things are right as people tend not to feel strongly enough to publicize....

At the moment, I'm leaning towards going for it. However, based on these forums, I'm definitely going to check the coolant level and evidence of cooling issues, as well as take an OBD reader to get any pending codes.

Any advice, experience and knowledge to talk me into/out of this will be greatly appreciated!

 

The 4.0 will need its chain tensioners changing to the metal-bodied kind. Not easy DIY.

I would avoid the 4.0 for that alone as I would not want to do that job. If you can DIY it and fancy it, no worries.

The other engines (*) are fine.

(*) apart from diesel with DPF, which wasn't sold over there

 

The AJ28 in the S-Type is a well-designed engine apart from the secondary timing chain tensioners, which has been covered extensively in this forum. Bear in mind that the vehicle is sixteen years old and has most likely had the timing chain issue resolved long ago.

Jaguar are still trying to overcome the various legends and myths concerning unreliability to this day. To the best of my knowledge, they are no more, and certainly no less, reliable than other luxury marques. If you can 'DIY' the maintenance/repairs, the 4.0 litre-engined cars are great to drive. If you must pay someone else to perform the work, you may want to consider a later vintage Honda or Toyota instead.

If the vehicle is as nice as you say, have the owner produce the maintenance records or receipts so you can see the history of what has been done so far.

 

Thank you for the feedback. I will see if I can see the maintenance records -I fear with only 60k miles on the clock, it may not have been done (was it a recall issue? I googled but didn't see anything so I assume not, so I think if I can not or do not see it in the records, chances are it has not been done).

Is this issue commonly a secondary tensioner issue only? I did see this: http://theeasydiy.com/?p=144 which gives me hope that I could do the top secondary(?) Tensioners myself.... I did read some threads about replacing the bottom tensioners but found myself perspiring and then couldn't get to sleep. I'm fairly certain that's not a job I want to do myself!

 

Forget the car!

DO NOT get the 1999-2002 S Type with the 4.0L V-8! It is a money pit waiting for you. The early V-6 cars are not as much problem.

Focus on the 2003 and up cars with the 4.2L V-8. Massive improvements in many things and they have fallen to very low prices so you should be able to find what you need.
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The timing chain tensioners were not a service campaign or recall item.

In my experience, most of the time, the primary timing chains, tensioners and guides also need to be replaced as the guides tend to break or crack. Once the tensioners and guides for both primary and secondary timing chains have been replaced, the AJ28 is virtually indestructible if given proper maintenance.

If you are uncertain about the work having been done, you can remove one of the cam covers to see if the secondary tensioner is the plastic-bodied version.

 

The standard advice from long-time S-Type owners is to stick with the 2003-and-newer cars. Jaguar remedied a number of issues in the later models, they will cost less to maintain, and you will have a better ownership experience. But the main consideration is that you must be able to DIY the majority of maintenance and repairs in order to keep these vehicles reasonably affordable. If you cannot, then do not purchase an S-Type....

 

Thank you Jon89!

That can't be said too often either.
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There's nothing wrong with the pre-2003 V8s other then the tensioners. The pre- and post- vehicles do have other substantial differences which would guide most to prefer the post- in any case.

Keeping in mind that any 2000 model year car is now 17 years old, they will suffer age related issues irrespective of mileage.

 

Like any older vehicle, expect to address any rubber items subject to dry rot, even tires.

My 2002 has/had many of the ailments described in this forum, one or more per year. Expect $2,500 per year on repairs, in addition to routine maintenance, as one major item will, due to Murphy's Law, fail.

 

Thank you everybody. I think I have a clearer picture: if I can't find out if the tensioners have been done, leave well alone. If they have, still expect potentially substantial maintenance costs even so.

At this point, given the mileage and amount I drive per year (~5000 miles) I think I'm willing to take a chance if I know the tensioners have been done -the car really is in excellent shape and has reasonable tires on it and I get a strong impression it has been very well cared for. I feel like I have reasonable wrenching skills (though I know I'm still gambling).

I'll certainly try to get hold of maintenance records.... But has anyone had experience using a service like Carfax etc for maintenance records from a dealership that may outline such work as this? Or do Carfax (or similar services anyone can recommend that may do this?) not go into this kind of detail? At this time I'm willing to shell out for a Carfax report if it can give me a reasonable chance that it can show -or not show -the tensioners have been done. In the past I've never used CarFax and gone more on gut and observation but these were for far, far simpler cheaper cars which is obviously very different.

I'm swinging from the agony of indecision to reckless folly with this. Thanks guys, clearly a knowledgeable lot!

 

I think you've got it backwards. If they've NOT been done, do it immediately or pass on the vehicle. Negotiate the cost of the repairs into the price of the car. If they have been done, you're all set in that department.

Carfax is no better than what's written on the piece of paper. It cannot give you good news, only bad. If there's no record of any accidents, it doesn't mean there wasn't one. It just wasn't reported. The presence of any negative events is ammunition for you to beat down the price or walk away.

It only rarely indicates details of scheduled mtce. or repairs.

 

Sorry, when I said "leave well alone" I meant I would walk away from any sale! Thanks for the info about Carfax, it's really dealership records I need to see then.

 

Typically, only the seller can provide those.

 

I beg to differ.

It's easily within range of the intermediate DIY'er.

 

To get all dealership maintenance records, I look at the Carfax to determine where the car has lived its life thus far. Then I call all of the Jaguar dealerships in those specific areas, ask for the service manager, provide him/her with the VIN, and have them read off the date, mileage, and service performed. I keep doing that until I have spoken with every dealership my Google searches have come up with and compiled what looks to be a fairly comprehensive list. Sometimes this takes several hours but I always view it as time very well spent....

 

Just a follow up. Again, thanks for all advice.

After much thought I decided against it -really the replacement of the primary tensioners was the deciding factor and I couldn't see any evidence they had been replaced -plus while I like the green I wanted another color. I have decided that if I do end up purchasing one, it will be a 2003+, and preferably a 3.0L in a color I really want -I don't need the extra power, less mpg or extra complexity. Just got to wait for the right one to show up now, and I have the patience.

Great forum though, perhaps one day I'll be a regular contributor... till then, thanks.

 

[QUOTE=Owlsfan;1443706]Thank you for the feedback. I will see if I can see the maintenance records -I fear with only 60k miles on the clock, it may not have been done (was it a recall issue? I googled but didn't see anything so I assume not, so I think if I can not or do not see it in the records, chances are it has not been done).QUOTE]


I have a 2000 with under 65,000 miles. NO issues on the engine so far. I do plan to change the tensioners at about 75-80,000 miles. The tops are easy, but the front is more difficult to get to. I am going to use a probe camera to look at the lowers then. Good luck. Do you have any photos of the car to show?

 

I agonized like you over buying my first Jaguar. And, my car experiences in terms of ownership sound a lot like yours as well. So, I think I know the mental and emotional roller coaster you were riding. In a way, I feel disappointed for you that you decided to walk away from the purchase. But, it comes down to the fact that only you know what's best for you... all things considered.

Also like you... I spent a lot of time on this forum asking questions, requesting opinions and just reading posts and threads about all the issues of Jaguar ownership. I'm not a rich guy, so I could not afford to buy anything that resembled a prospective money pit. But, the seduction of Jaguar was relentless. And, I just had to satisfy this compelling quest.

Advice and opinion on this forum had me excluding any S-type pre 2003. Despite the praise for 4.0's you find here, I thought I really wanted that engine until I started test driving cars on dealer lots. I found I actually preferred the 3.0. I felt all the 3.0's I drove handled better than the 4.0's... more agile and more nimble. I definitely didn't need the extra power either.

Over 4 months, I looked at a lot of S-types from 2000 to 2005 model years... maybe as many as 15 to 20. Cars after 2005 tended to carry price tags that were out of my range... unless the mileage was high or they had condition issues.

To make a long story a little shorter, after being more than a little frustrated that my pursuit of Jaguar ownership was dragging out and availabilities seemed to be shrinking, I just decided to go for it. Except for its low price tag, I got a little reckless. I ended up buying a super pristine, one-owner 2000 S-Type 3.0 that had just under 90,000 miles. It's been an Arizona car it's entire life, so it hasn't faced moisture-laden climate or weather.

It had a CarFax which was helpful, but probably not all-inclusive... there were minor gaps in time. It was not serviced through a Jaguar dealership. It's original owner lived in a small Arizona town and he took it to a local, general all-around mechanic.

It's British Racing Green... not my first color choice. I was high on the Platinum and Topaz colors with Radiance Red also being a favorite. After 2 months, I am absolutely thrilled with it. I wouldn't consider another car or another color now.

I am not a DIY guy like you... don't have the know-how or the courage in that area., But, the pleasure I have in getting behind the wheel of my Jaguar more than makes up for any prospective issues I may be staring at in the future... and I know there will be some. However, I have found that being a Jaguar owner and driver is just the coolest thing. Don't miss out on it!

 

We'll just have to disagree.

edit: but this is not intended to put anyone off doing it!