Ever wanted to cause total brake failure in your S-Type? here's my "how to" guide
 

It's simple really...take the additive that Jaguar provides to stop the power steering noise these cars are known for, then put it in your brake master cylinder reservoir. Within a few days you'll be experiencing random brake failures, and shortly after that a total brake failure :icon_doh: (as an aside, the novel e-brake in this thing is scary when you need it to stop the car...it seems to take anywhere from 2-3 seconds to engage. Not Fun.). Apparently the oils in this additive cause the rubber seals in the Master Cylinder to expand, thus making the braking system inoperable.

Anyway, does anyone here know where I can get a new/rebuilt Master Cylinder at a reasonable price? Seems like there are lots available for '00-'02 on the internet, but the few sites I've found with '05 versions cost $400-500. I really hate to spend that much on a self-caused problem.

Thanks,
Jason

I have a bad feeling you may need more than the master. Hopefully it didn't get into the rest of the system. What wuz you smokin? :icon_hyper:

+1, whatever it was I have to get a hold of some :icon_pimp: Sit tight someone will chime in and let you know how to resolve it.
Good Luck.

Oh man that sucks, and sounds like something that I would do. Good luck in the repair and let us know how it goes.

Make sure you do a complete flush, preferably a power flush to get rid of the old contaminated brake fluid. Preferably at least partially before installing the new master cylinder, and then again afterwards as part of the bleed process. You may also need new calipers, or rebuild the calipers. Same seal material. Speaking of which, there may be a rebuild kit for the master cylinder.

Dont forget the ABS box. If its in there there are seals in there also. You might have a pretty big job ahead of you. You could always do like other said and rebuild everything yourself. Break everything down to the seals and find new seals and replace. That is probably going to be your cheapest best bet. Then you will have to bleed the entire system including the ABS box cause it may be within the solenoids. So you will have to get something to open the solenoids to bleed it out.

Jason were you drinking Michelob Ultras with Michael Star?

Some good advise above BTW.

Good luck in the repair...

Ok, try the following.

The reason is that the ABS stays out of circuit most of the time unless ABS is activated. That may minimise invasion of the additive to the ABS.

Do a full gravity bleed. You may prefer the AES Blue because the dye color will let you know how you are doing.

A gravity bleed involves opening the bleeders one at a time and letting the brake fluid bleed due to gravity while keeping the reservoir full. This takes time, but it will bleed without the seals moving.

With the AES Blue, you would stop once the brake fluid at the bleeder turns blue.

bleed the master cylinder first if you can. This may require a bench bleed.

DO NOT flush the system, suck out the master cyllinder and replace it. THEN flush and bleed the system, otherwise youll push thatcontaminated fluid into the rest of the system. That additive didnt go further than the master cylinder and reservoir. If you suck it out you will save yourself more damage and $$$$

Good point about immediate removal of the master cylinder. Especially as it has to be replaced/rebuilt to begin with.

But, how about the rest of the system? The OP already had a failure on the road.

Thanks everyone, I probably would have done better had I been smoking/drinking something actually :)

Honestly, I don't know what the heck I was thinking...I was so excited to be getting rid of the noise, when I opened the hood I saw a circle on the MS Reservoir cap & interpreted that to be a steering wheel...and given that it's located directly in front of the steering wheel I knew that HAD to be the PS reservoir. :icon_doh: Funny that I never questioned it, but once the brakes went I knew exactly what I had done. Certainly an expensive lesson, but I'd say I'm fortunate that it happened on local roads and not the interstate!

plumsauce, thanks to you in particular for the tips. My mechanic did already do a gravity bleed on the brakes, twice actually. I found a used master cylinder on ebay that I guess I'll buy. I'm a little concerned that it comes from a 2003 though...the seller states it's compatible up to '05, but I don't see that being the case in any other documentation. Anyone know for a fact how far back I can go to get the part that fits an '05?

The big hurdle now is that my wife is convinced the car is a death trap & she wants me to trade it in for a Lexus ES...yuck

Hmm...wish I or the mech had thought about that before doing the bleed, it's too late now though.

What's interesting is that I put this stuff in over a month ago and there were zero symptoms until Thursday. At that point once every 4-5 times I used the pedal it'd sink to the floor. By the next morning I had to rely completely on the e-brake.

Just get a Toyota Camry and throw Lexus badges on it and save 15K. Same thing. :icon_razz:

You do have to consider that the mix may have made it into the rest of the brake system as it was present for an extended period.

It is also true that with a closed hydraulic system that there is not much movement of fluid when brakes are applied and released. So, Brutal has a valid point and it may have been best to do it that way. Certainly, the concentration beyond the master would have been much weaker. Leading to the next consideration.

If you choose to do the only the master first, which is not a bad idea given the above, then pay attention to the firmness of the pedal. You especially do not want the brake sinking to the floor on an extended hold. If that happens, you *know* that additional components need attention.

In determining your level of comfort, you can bear in mind that the braking system beyond the master is a split system, so you have some reserve if something beyond the master starts to give way. A failure in the ABS will lead to the brakes behaving as if there were no ABS but still stopping fine.

You can point at the Toyota/Lexus brake recall. At the risk of being contradicted, it was not completely the company's fault, just the way some people do manual brake bleeding caused the seals to twist, leading to failed seals. The lesson there would be to put a 2x4 under the brake pedal when having someone do the pumping to avoid overshooting the cylinder bore. Or, go to gravity bleeding which eliminates this problem.

The S Type brakes are the same from 2003 to 2005. Jaguar changed them on all versions in 2006. (These dates are North American model year dates)

Bingo... I was gonna say the same thing. Brake fluid is static. You can do the same thing if something drops (dirt, water, etc.) into the reservoir when checking. Just be REAL sure you are adding the CORRECT fluid.

But from the sound of things, the bleed attempts may have gotten the contaminated fluid into other areas.

I would just change the master cyl. then bleed the entire system with the "blue" fluid that Plumsauce mentioned.

Where do you get that fluid?? I've done fluid changes on brakes and always end up wasting a ton of fluid making sure all the old is out. If it is just a DOT fluid with blue color... Switching back and forth will make fluid changes a snap!

The AES Blue is a popular DOT 4 synthetic brake fluid favoured by club racers who bleed brakes frequently. When it changes color, you are done. Great for gravity bleeds.

It comes in two flavours, blue and amber. You switch between them on each bleed so that you can see where everything left off. There is no formulation difference between the two except for colour.

Another good fluid is the BMW DOT 4 in the metal 1 liter cans from the dealership. Inexpensive, great quality.

As to where to buy AES ... don't know. Try pelicanparts.com, bimmer specialists, or performance shops.

Jason there a few 2005 MC listed at www.car-part.com

Cool, thx Rick. I found one here locally for $50 on that site.

Amazon.com has it also. I just picked myself up some.

Ouch!! Sorry to hear about that!

The EPB applies in stages if you're going over some threshold speed (see JTIS), basically to get it to apply more pull the paddle a few times. Did you already?