My wife was leaving work this afternoon when our S-Type's dash flashed the engine malfunction, park brake, and dynamic stability control lights. The car then went into limp mode by slowing down to about 5 mph. Fortunately she was on a lightly-traveled road and pulled into a nearby parking lot and then shut the engine off. Although she was scared, she had the presence of mind to pull the owners manual out of the glove box and made an effort to find out what happened. She then called me, told me what happened, and I explained "limp mode" to her. I told her to sit there with the car off for 5 to 10 minutes, then crank it up again and see if it would drive. She did that, the car started, and she drove about 25 miles home with no issues even though the engine malfunction light stayed on (probably indicating that the ECM had thrown some codes). She arrived home, I called our Jaguar dealership and told them we were bringing the car in, and we did. I drove it the 20 or 25 miles to the dealership with no additional problems and left it with them along with my detailed description of what happened....

While waiting for my wife to make it home after she called me when initially experiencing the problem, I researched "limp mode" here on the forum. It appears that some owners who previously experienced limp mode have had to replace their throttle position sensors, mass air flow sensors, or park brake components in order to completely resolve their limp mode issues. So it will be interesting to learn what codes our ECM threw. I'll try to keep this thread updated as our car is diagnosed and repaired. While it's in the shop, I'm also going to go ahead and have them take care of the 8 items currently on my warranty punch list that I've been building since January. They'll also go ahead and perform the J004 OBDII emissions system recall. So I won't be surprised if we don't see the car again until sometime next week....

But my biggest obstacle now is the fact that after what happened today, my wife has lost all trust in our S-Type. We're in North Carolina, her elderly parents live in Florida, and she drives back and forth alone to see them at least 6 or 8 times a year. Had this limp mode issue occured while she was en route to or from Florida, she would have been in a world of trouble and would probably have refused to ever get behind the wheel of the S-Type again....

I hope the Jaguar dealership can indeed rebuild her trust in this car. If they cannot, I have some decisions to make about whether or not we will keep it. Fortunately for me, we're still under the factory warranty until mid-July....

As I said, I'll try to keep this thread updated for the benefit of other S-Type owners who have to deal with the much-dreaded limp mode issue. One can never have enough information in situations like this....

 

Jon out of curiousity how many miles are on your S?

 

2005 S-Type 3.0 with 26,600 well-cared-for miles. About 8,500 of those miles are ours since we purchased it on December 19, 2008. I have all service records from the original selling and maintaining Jaguar dealership, and there is no history of the car being brought in due to a limp mode issue until now....

 

Maybe that ext warranty aint such a bad idea after all. Great for re-sale value. I have first hand experience with the ext warranty issue. Best money I ever spent.

 

Jon, I am EXTREMELY sorry to hear that has happened to you. I started a post with my car doing the same exact thing. Of course, the 2 times it happened my wife was also driving the car. She is very hesitant about taking it long distances now, and to be honest, I also am. I just got mine back yesterday, this was the 2nd repair attempt by Jaguar. The first time they replaced the whole throttle body. They most recently replaced the Parking Brake Module. They also admitted that when they initially replaced the throttle body the "pins" were not thoroughly cleaned, and it wasnt "snapped" in completely. They said they cleaned the connectors, laced it with silicone, and reinstalled it correctly. They said there was corrosion from water on there. They also said that the throttle body is what is definately causing the "Limp Home Mode". I am going to drive it like I stole it to see if it returns, if so, I will then drive into the storefront window of Jaguar (in limp home mode) get out of the car, and leave the keys for good...

Seriously though, please let us know how they dignosed it and what codes you were getting.

 

If we keep the car, this ugly little "limp mode" experience may indeed cause me to revisit my initial decision against an extended warranty. That means I'll take a second look but it doesn't mean that I'll automatically buy one. That's the beauty of having seven months of remaining factory warranty coverage from the date we purchased the car to see how the dice wind up rolling with this particular vehicle....

But if my wife refuses to get behind the wheel again, it's a moot point. The S-Type will have to go....

Bull27, thanks for the kind words. I'm also sorry that this happened to your wife as well. We can't blame the wives when they are put through this and then decide "that's it - I'm done with this car." Even though I carefully explained to my wife on the phone yesterday that she would be okay after restarting the car and that "limp mode" would probably not reoccur on her trip home, she was scared to death because she still had 25 miles of high-speed freeway to traverse before getting home....

I promise to keep this thread updated with Jaguar's diagnosis and fix, as well as whether or not I truly believe it is "fixed". This information could help others who encounter this nasty little problem down the road....

 

Just spoke with my Service Advisor. Their Master Tech claims that a combination of a new, waterproofed Front Cowl Panel (ordered today and should be there tomorrow) and the J004 OBDII Deficiency Recall / ECM Reflash will fix our "limp mode" issue. Our ECM threw only one code - P2135 / Throttle Position Sensor. They believe that moisture probably caused the issue, although yesterday when it happened was bright and sunny with low humidity....

I told the Service Advisor that I'm not convinced that this is the fix. I believe that the Throttle Position Sensor should also be replaced, and I told him that. He said that he will talk to his Service Manager about my skepticism. I hope they will go ahead and replace the sensor as well....

I also told him that with our "limp mode" issue, they MUST fix it right this first time. Due to my wife's loss of trust in the car, they won't get a second chance. If their repairs effected this visit fail to fix the "limp mode" issue and it occurs again (especially if my wife is driving), I'll be meeting with their General Manager....

Other minor warranty issues are also being resolved during this visit (new underhood pad, fuel filler lid is difficult for my wife to close into the locked position, discolored chrome trim around the side windows, harmonic distortion when the moonroof is fully opened, intermittent problems with the Bluetooth hands-free microphone installed on the headliner, etc.) so I probably won't get the car back until Friday. I'll keep this thread posted as more information comes in to me....

 

Ah yes, the dreaded 2135 code, thats the thorn in my side as well. I believe it reads TPS sensor and Pedal position Sensor fault. I wonder why he didnt think the TPS sensor/throttle body was not to blame. Seems as though moisture will STILL get in there even with a new cowl. What did he say about the J004 OBII recall? Havent heard of that before. I sincerly hope that they fix it for you correctly the first time Jon, the 2nd time it happened to me I was in NY and I live in Boston, believe me, that ruined a perfectly good weekend with the wife! Not too mention it is extremely dangerous at highway speeds to go into Limp Mode, I wish there was a way to shut that Limp Mode off completely... good luck man

 

Are there any examples of this malady afflicting older S-types? Or is this a problem only with the later models? Thanks in advance.

 

Bull27,

The Service Advisor says that their Master Tech claims that the J004 reflash along with a new Cowl Panel will fix this "limp mode" issue for good, even though the code thrown clearly implicates the Throttle Position Sensor. I still believe that my Throttle Position Sensor should be replaced as well. The tech supposedly says that is "unnecessary". I remain very skeptical and wonder if they are trying to save money by holding out on the Throttle Position Sensor and waiting to see if this happens again to our car. This strategy would be a very dangerous thing for them to do, for two reasons: first, it puts my wife at serious risk again, and second, I will rip the dealership's General Manager apart limb by limb if they do not go ahead and replace the Throttle Position Sensor now and "limp mode" happens again throwing the same P2135 code. This issue is far too unsafe for the customer for service managers to be using their customers' cars as guinea pigs by replacing something like the Cowl Panel only and therefore opening the door to repeated "limp mode" events until they finally get it right.

So I made the decision to contact Jaguar's Vice President of Parts and Service at JaguarUSA with my concerns for the safety of my wife, and thus far I have exchanged e-mails with him this morning. I won't be surprised if I receive a very polite phone call from my local Service Advisor later on this morning saying that they have changed their minds and have now decided to replace my Throttle Position Sensor with a brand new one as a result of the P2135 code. We'll see....

 

Update as of 2:45 pm Thursday from my Service Advisor:

The Jaguar technician working on our car did some more "research and re-thinking" today and as a result, the dealership has decided to replace not only our Throttle Position Sensor as the P2135 code indicates, but also the entire Throttle Body assembly as well. I don't yet know if my e-mail to Jaguar's Vice President of Parts and Service at Jaguar's U.S. headquarters in New Jersey had anything to do with this decision, but I'm glad that the dealership finally seems to be stepping up to the plate in our behalf....

I hope that the new Cowl Panel will also help to keep moisture out of the engine compartment. Moisture somehow finding its way into the Throttle Body seems to be the culprit that sets off these "limp mode" incidents, and anyone who's been through one already knows that it can be frightening and extremely dangerous, especially if you're on the freeway doing 75 mph when it happens....

I expect the car to be ready for us to pick up sometime tomorrow afternoon. I'll keep this thread updated as to how the car is performing. The big unanswered question remains whether my wife will be willing to drive it again....

 

I'm not wanting to cause offence... but can't ANY car fail (in any of many ways)?

I'd think the "best" way to avoid that would be to avoid complex cars and also to research which one(s) have a fantastic reliability record. And you'd need a car sold in large numbers so the record was meaningful.

I'm doubtful the S-Type fits the above. (I don't know what does.)

BTW, the emissions requirements don't really allow non-complex cars, do they?

 

This limp home stuff is starting to bother me. I've got an 06 3.0 and would like to visit my son and my wifes families..both live 250 miles away, but in different directions.. we would be going from SoCal to Ft. Mojave Ariz for my son and to Central Calif. for my wifes family. May take her car...2008 Nissan, sounds safer.

 

Hey Jon, I think you made the right move contacting the VP, and unfortunately it seems as though the local service manager was trying to get away with a cheap fix. They reparied my entire throttle body and never mentioned the cowl thing. Granted it happened again, but they admitted they installed it incorrectly. I will also keep you updated as I drive the furthur. I completely agree with you about the dangers of the car just shutting down on the highway, somewhat RIDICULOUS to be honest. i would rather cause further damage to the car then get hit by another car doing 75mph. I asked my service guy if there was a way to bypass the limp home mode, and he said no. He also said the car is basically not sensing how much throttle should be given (or something like that), so it just throws itself into limp mode. My respone: "I dont give a Sh*t if the car doesnt know how much throttle there is, moreover, even if there are flames coming out of my exhaust it shouldnt just shut itself down!"

JAYT2 I wouldnt worry about it too much, have you had it happen before? This limp home mode could be the WORST feature of my Jaguar, but I think it is somewhat rare, at least i would hope so.

 

jagv8,

I did indeed research the S-Type before we bought it, in fact staying up all night on December 18th and into the morning of December 19th doing my research. Nothing showed up on the "limp mode" subject. I think that limp mode is dangerous as hell. I'm all for dashboard warning lights, but a computer making a random decision to automatically drag a moving vehicle down to 10 mph is very unsafe. I'd rather my wife have the opportunity to pull over to the side of the road with a normal speed decrease than have her run over by a speeding semi coming up behind her....

What cars fit your description of reliable? My answer is essentially all the other 20-some vehicles I've owned in nearly 40 years of driving. Sure, cars fail, but none of mine that have had a problem while moving have ever dragged themselves down to 10 mph with no chance to take evasive action until now. Believe it or not, the most reliable, trouble-free vehicle I've ever owned is my now more than 10-year-old 1999 Dodge Ram 5.9-litre V8 1500-series pickup. Other than routine maintenance, one set of new tires, and a warranty replacement of the original catalytic converter, all it has ever needed is one license plate bulb replaced, a new serpentine belt last August, and a new water pump this past November. It is my daily driver, hauls whatever I happen to be working on, and it just doesn't break....


JAYT2,

Going to Arizona you're talking about a very arid, desert climate. All the Jaguar techs seem to agree that moisture in the Throttle Body is the primary cause of these "limp mode" failures. I think your chances of a "limp home" failure in that part of the country would be about as minimum as possible....

 

Jon89,

Did the car apply the brakes? I don't think limp home would do that. Are you certain that there wasn't a normal speed decrease? You mean, like taking your foot off the throttle?

I understand many vehicles have this limp home mode as a consequence really of the emissions laws. I don't say it makes sense to prevent the driver overriding it. I wonder if that is also required by the laws.

I don't have a firm way to describe "reliable" in your wife's terms because I don't know her but it sounds like you'd want to buy a big-volume car, not new but with a known history. Or just hope! You'd presumably want to find out whether it also has a limp home mode and if so not buy it. You may need to avoid "high-tech" vehicles so there's little to fail but that then means you can't buy anything made in recent years. (This does not describe the way I choose a car but I have to say I also don't like limp home. All my recent cars have had it, sadly, which makes me think it is probably mandatory.)

 

jagv8,

No, "limp mode" is not mandatory, not here in the U.S. anyway.

I wasn't in the car when "limp mode" struck, so I can't provide you with a first-hand description of the sequence of events. My wife says that the car shut itself down from the 45 to 50 mph that she had been traveling to less than 10 mph, all within the span of what she thinks was no more than 5 seconds. I don't know if this is done by 100% engine braking or if the actual braking system is also applied. It would be good for all of us if one of the Jaguar techs on this forum would chime in here and explain exactly how "limp mode" works. Again, I wasn't in the car. I wish I had been....

My wife's other vehicle is a 2004 Lexus RX330 AWD. No "limp mode" on that vehicle. I'm not a big fan of Lexus vehicles (her previous 2000 Lexus RX300 AWD was the worst vehicle I've ever owned in nearly 40 years of driving, needing more than $9,000 worth of warranty repairs during the 4 years we had it), but this RX330 has been a good vehicle. Coming up on 90,000 miles and nothing but some minor warranty work here and there for things like seat heaters going out and a HVAC servo motor needing to be replaced. One thing about Lexus, they don't try to be chintzy with their warranty work - in fact they go the extra mile to make sure everything is fixed to your satisfaction and they have even done warranty work on our original RX300 more than 20,000 miles after the warranty had expired because we had such a lousy experience with that vehicle. Lexus calls this their "goodwill warranty", and I really appreciated it since it took care of a rear main oil seal leak at about 72,000 miles that would have cost me about $1,200 out-of-pocket at the time....

I bought my wife the S-Type with the idea of splitting her driving equally between the two vehicles and making them both last much longer as a result. Jaguar's quality and reliability reputation had improved by leaps and bounds by the time the 2005 S-Type hit the market, and my research on the car managed to make me overcome my initial skepticism. I made a low-ball offer which I didn't think the dealer would accept, refused to negotiate, and the dealership wound up accepting my offer so I bought this car cheap. She loved it, it drives and rides beautifully, it is a gorgeous vehicle, it serves its purpose extremely well in our household as a great highway cruiser, and it stunned me by getting close to 34 mpg on her solo trips back and forth to Florida. It was a perfect 3rd vehicle for us and since we bought it in December, she's put 8,000 miles on it and only 4,000 miles on her RX330 so that shows you just how much she enjoys the S-Type. Then the "limp mode" incident occured on Tuesday afternoon and caused her to lose all trust in the car. Sure wish it had happened with me solo behind the wheel instead of her....

So we'll see. I hope she can overcome her lack of trust in the S-Type now. If I have to sell the car this soon after buying it, there's no question that I'll lose several thousand bucks out of my pocket. But it was a cash purchase, it's paid for, and I'll just have to suck it up and take my medicine if she won't drive it from this point forward and therefore I have to sell it....

Thanks for your interest. This experience has taught me that from now on, I'll investigate whether any vehicle we are interested in has a built-in "limp mode" feature. If it does, then that vehicle will immediately be removed from our shopping list....

 

Jon89,

You may be right about the Lexus, although it appears at least these models do have a limp mode: LS430, GS430, SC430, LX470, GX470, ES300, so it seems odd if the RX330 doesn't. (It has a tranny limp mode, at least.)

Avoiding limp home issues is going to get tougher, I suspect. E.g. any car with a fly-by-wire throttle must have a problem as to what to do if that fails.

Good luck!

 

The issue going forward with the "limp mode" feature for ANY manufacturer is that the system must be made foolproof enough not to pull its own trigger for trivial, non-catastrophic reasons such as a tiny amount of moisture in the throttle body. Flash all the dashboard lights you want to, sound the alarm bells, but don't shut the friggin' engine down for crying out loud....

Of course, Jaguar also needs to figure out why these throttle bodies are apparently so prone to collecting moisture in the first place. Better seals, gaskets, pins, and various other attachment devices may very well be the solution....

Jaguar may suddenly take this matter far more seriously if an owner suffers a "limp mode" failure on a jam-packed highway while doing 75 mph and unfortunately gets rear-ended and run over by an 18-wheeler that was barrelling along right behind him/her. I certainly hope that it never has to come to that....

 

Jon.
Why did you buy another Lexus if the first one was the worst car you ever owned in over 40 years of driving? I would never consider the same make of car if that was my case. Also if you got your Jag for as low as you said (low-ball)you could probably get all your money back or more if you decide to sell it only 5 months after your purchase.
Good luck with the repairs I hope they don't return.
Did Jag fix all your requests on your list I think you said it had 9 items on it?