Radiator fans NOT working?
#21
07-16-2011, 07:57 AM
Veteran Member
#22
08-06-2011, 03:01 PM
catalytic conv caused restricted perf without PO420 or PO430
Please try to focus your feedback on the heating problem and I'd like to focus on the other issue later; unless you feel they may be related.
I called Simon a technician at Manhattan Jaguar in Bethesda, MD today. This same technician performed a diagnostic on my 2005 STR (54K miles) during a Free 30 minute diagnostic check 5 weeks ago. Again, I want this thread to stay on topic but to provide all the details, the two issues I wanted looked into at that time were:
1) Coolant Leak
Smelled burning coolant but can't locate source of leak. Fan not working at this time
2) Misfire on cylinders 4, 6 and 8
Codes: PO300 (Multiple Miss Fire), PO304, PO306, PO308, P1314 (Manf Control Ignition Sys or Misfire). The engine goes into restricted performance mode for 5 to 15 seconds every time the engine is pushed to ~5500 rpm. When at 5500 rpm the engine sounds like a chattering noise, not like the spark plugs are misfiring. It may be that the fuel filter is clogged but that is only a guess on my part.
The technician found no coolant leaks and ran out of time trying to fix the orange marker lights on the front bumper that I had not noticed were not working. He took off both front wheels and wheel liners to access the wiring harnesses for the lights. New bulbs were installed but still no lights. He said the wiring harness may have been faulty or damaged and needed checked.
By this time the 30 minute free diagnostic time up. I was not charged for the bulbs and he also installed a few missing screws in the wheel liners at no charge. In all, he actually spent 50 minutes with me and my car. With the promotion I could then get the car washed, some coffee, donuts and 10% off the parts for the repair or service(s). I thanked him for his time and input but took a pass on the wash and at that time needed no parts since I still was not sure what was needed to fix the issues.
When speaking on the phone with Simon today I told him that the fan behind the radiator was no longer working and he said that if the fuses for the circuit are all okay that I may have a defective Cooling Control Module (CCM). I spoke with their parts department and the module comes as an assembly with a new shroud and fans for a total of $506+tax.
Now I am going to look at the wiring diagrams and see what I can do to make sure this is truly the source of the problem. At this time no voltage is being sent to the fan when the AC is turned on or when the engine temperature is at or above 220 F.
If I do need a CCM where can it be purchased by itself? All the following places said they did not have it or it was not listed on their parts section of their website: Dealership, Rock Auto, Advanced Auto Parts, Napa, Pep Boys. I saw on this forum CCM for sale but that was years ago. I have not checked the salvage yards yet or tried to cross to a Lincoln LS part number.
Thank you for any more assistance you can provide.
I called Simon a technician at Manhattan Jaguar in Bethesda, MD today. This same technician performed a diagnostic on my 2005 STR (54K miles) during a Free 30 minute diagnostic check 5 weeks ago. Again, I want this thread to stay on topic but to provide all the details, the two issues I wanted looked into at that time were:
1) Coolant Leak
Smelled burning coolant but can't locate source of leak. Fan not working at this time
2) Misfire on cylinders 4, 6 and 8
Codes: PO300 (Multiple Miss Fire), PO304, PO306, PO308, P1314 (Manf Control Ignition Sys or Misfire). The engine goes into restricted performance mode for 5 to 15 seconds every time the engine is pushed to ~5500 rpm. When at 5500 rpm the engine sounds like a chattering noise, not like the spark plugs are misfiring. It may be that the fuel filter is clogged but that is only a guess on my part.
The technician found no coolant leaks and ran out of time trying to fix the orange marker lights on the front bumper that I had not noticed were not working. He took off both front wheels and wheel liners to access the wiring harnesses for the lights. New bulbs were installed but still no lights. He said the wiring harness may have been faulty or damaged and needed checked.
By this time the 30 minute free diagnostic time up. I was not charged for the bulbs and he also installed a few missing screws in the wheel liners at no charge. In all, he actually spent 50 minutes with me and my car. With the promotion I could then get the car washed, some coffee, donuts and 10% off the parts for the repair or service(s). I thanked him for his time and input but took a pass on the wash and at that time needed no parts since I still was not sure what was needed to fix the issues.
When speaking on the phone with Simon today I told him that the fan behind the radiator was no longer working and he said that if the fuses for the circuit are all okay that I may have a defective Cooling Control Module (CCM). I spoke with their parts department and the module comes as an assembly with a new shroud and fans for a total of $506+tax.
Now I am going to look at the wiring diagrams and see what I can do to make sure this is truly the source of the problem. At this time no voltage is being sent to the fan when the AC is turned on or when the engine temperature is at or above 220 F.
If I do need a CCM where can it be purchased by itself? All the following places said they did not have it or it was not listed on their parts section of their website: Dealership, Rock Auto, Advanced Auto Parts, Napa, Pep Boys. I saw on this forum CCM for sale but that was years ago. I have not checked the salvage yards yet or tried to cross to a Lincoln LS part number.
Thank you for any more assistance you can provide.
The cause for problem 2 (see above) on my 2005 STR with 56K miles has been determined.
Over the last several weeks I changed the fuel filter, spark plugs and coils. Unfortunately, my car still would not accelerate smoothly beyond 4K-5K rpms without going into restricted performance mode. Once I let off the throttle the car would run normal again and the restricted performance indication would go away in about 15 seconds.
As I started my STR yesterday I heard a noise change from a chattering sound (normally only hard at full throttle and higher rpms) to a loud clanging noise at idle. It actually sounded as if the engine was running without oil!
I turned off the engine and put the car up on jack stands. Next, I had my son rev the engine for me three times to ~3500 rpm. Each time he did so, the loud clanging rate followed the rpms up and down.
- The first rev seemed like the was noise came from the rear of the engine
- The second rev seemed like came from around the transmission
- The third rev seemed like the noise was coming from one or both the catalytic converters
This being the case I called a local dealer and then all local dealers within 75 miles. Nobody had in stock the driver's side (or even the passenger side) catalytic converters.
I am relieved this should be covered under the emissions warranty of 8 years or 80K miles. I was quoted from $1070 to $1200 for each converter.
Does anybody have a dyno pull before and after changing to high flow Magnaflow 59975 catalytic converters? I see prices from $96 to $149 each. Last, was the engine's noise level or tone different after the change? I 'm thinking about having the new converter(s) installed and then take them off once the car performs normally again and install high flow cats for better performance if there's proof they actually sound and work well.
#23
08-11-2011, 11:30 PM
cat has got its bite back
I took the car to the dealer and they installed new driver's side converter today. Now my car is back to running strong to redline.
Now that all is okay I'm waiting for my new cats and x-pipe to be installed to see how she'll really run. Looking for a well established exhaust shop in southern Maryland or northern Virginia. Ideas anyone?
Now that all is okay I'm waiting for my new cats and x-pipe to be installed to see how she'll really run. Looking for a well established exhaust shop in southern Maryland or northern Virginia. Ideas anyone?
#24
10-08-2013, 03:48 AM
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#25
10-06-2014, 04:33 AM
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#26
08-05-2017, 01:45 PM
Hello I am trying to diagnose why the radiator cooling fan does not come on . The two fuses are good . The wire diagram shows a cooling fan module that I can not locate . The car , DOM 02/2005 jaguar S Type 6cyl. 72,500 miles .There are three harness plugs that are part of the fan/shroud assembly . Does any one know a test sequence to confirm that the motor is in working order? What is the reliability of this motor ? Thank you for your information! Catrick
#27
08-06-2017, 08:57 AM
Veteran Member
#28
08-06-2017, 09:53 AM
Veteran Member
Most likely the module is fine, though. Worn brushes in the motor are the most likely culprit. Pull the connector from the motor. With an ohmmeter, check for continuity between the two terminals on the motor. Slowly spin the blade by hand in case there's a dead spot. I can check a spare motor for the resistance value, but I don't think it was more than a few ohms.
If you are very careful, you can use test leads to power the fan motor directly with 12V power. That will quickly tell you if the motor works.
My experience from last year here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-gauge-159542/
#29
08-06-2017, 10:28 AM
Veteran Member
#30
08-30-2017, 07:56 PM
Wow, I wish I would have found this sooner. I too had a issue with overheating. About 3 weeks ago a 2x4 a foot long flew at my front end while driving at 50 mph and damaged my front lip bumper causing it to hang loose and run against my pass front tire. I had to remove it. Now it's overheating weeks later. I replaced the upper radiator hose, temp sensor, tstat and pump due to the overheating and age of the parts. Not to mention there was a small leak at the acrylic 6 way hose intersection where the temp sensor is located. In the end it was the two wires located behind the front pass turn signal that was caused by the minor accident that hit my front end. After connecting the wire back together it runs like it should. Now I have a low coolant warning issue probably due to a sensor gone bad in the reservoir. But that's not for here. All the work was more then likely not even needed other then the hose replacement for the leak. I'm calling it preventative maintenance lol.
#31
06-22-2018, 01:00 PM
On my '02 V6, the cooling fan module is on the back of the shroud, lower corner on the US driver's side. Access stinks.
Most likely the module is fine, though. Worn brushes in the motor are the most likely culprit. Pull the connector from the motor. With an ohmmeter, check for continuity between the two terminals on the motor. Slowly spin the blade by hand in case there's a dead spot. I can check a spare motor for the resistance value, but I don't think it was more than a few ohms.
If you are very careful, you can use test leads to power the fan motor directly with 12V power. That will quickly tell you if the motor works.
My experience from last year here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-gauge-159542/
Most likely the module is fine, though. Worn brushes in the motor are the most likely culprit. Pull the connector from the motor. With an ohmmeter, check for continuity between the two terminals on the motor. Slowly spin the blade by hand in case there's a dead spot. I can check a spare motor for the resistance value, but I don't think it was more than a few ohms.
If you are very careful, you can use test leads to power the fan motor directly with 12V power. That will quickly tell you if the motor works.
My experience from last year here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-gauge-159542/
Can I run an S-Type fan direct to the two pins on the motor with 12v?
I have a spare and would like to use it to cool my garage, but scared of doing it damage by trying it directly off a battery
without the module.... (I guess without the module it will just spin at max revs which will be fine by me! LOL)
Will it burn out without the module regulating the voltage?
What fuse should I install inline?
I am grateful for any advice you could give me.
Kindest regards.
Paul.
Alicante
#32
06-22-2018, 02:41 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
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On my '02 V6, the cooling fan module is on the back of the shroud, lower corner on the US driver's side. Access stinks.
Most likely the module is fine, though. Worn brushes in the motor are the most likely culprit. Pull the connector from the motor. With an ohmmeter, check for continuity between the two terminals on the motor. Slowly spin the blade by hand in case there's a dead spot. I can check a spare motor for the resistance value, but I don't think it was more than a few ohms.
If you are very careful, you can use test leads to power the fan motor directly with 12V power. That will quickly tell you if the motor works.
My experience from last year here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-gauge-159542/
Most likely the module is fine, though. Worn brushes in the motor are the most likely culprit. Pull the connector from the motor. With an ohmmeter, check for continuity between the two terminals on the motor. Slowly spin the blade by hand in case there's a dead spot. I can check a spare motor for the resistance value, but I don't think it was more than a few ohms.
If you are very careful, you can use test leads to power the fan motor directly with 12V power. That will quickly tell you if the motor works.
My experience from last year here:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-gauge-159542/
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pablomonk (06-22-2018)
#33
06-22-2018, 03:27 PM
I just attached the fan to a 13.4v transformer (3A) and yes it works, but very low speed.
so... I stuck it straight on the Jag battery (800A) and it shifted more air than a curry addict! (not sure how long it would last at that speed)
I know nothing about electrics, but I guess the fan's speed is controlled depending on the amps being supplied?
I have to find a way to restrict the amps to a reasonable amount from the battery.
Maybe a trip to a car electrics specialist.
Last edited by pablomonk; 06-22-2018 at 03:29 PM. Reason: add photo
#34
06-22-2018, 11:02 PM
You might be able to use a heavy duty trailer brake resistor..i have used them before to control 12 volt variable speed motors. Just get one with the thickest wire you can..or you can get a shunt that is set at a pre determined reduction.. the resistor is easier to find and cheaper ..a good trailer supply or dealer should have them
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pablomonk (06-23-2018)
#35
06-22-2018, 11:16 PM
Veteran Member
Yes, in theory you could. However, on a practical level, a $20 box fan is ready to work as is, and designed for just such an application. By the time you rig up some sort of speed controller for the S-type fan, I bet you'd be out more money and end up with a cobbled mishmash that doesn't work nearly as well (and quietly) as an ordinary box fan
The following users liked this post:
pablomonk (06-23-2018)
#36
06-23-2018, 10:56 PM
Yes, in theory you could. However, on a practical level, a $20 box fan is ready to work as is, and designed for just such an application. By the time you rig up some sort of speed controller for the S-type fan, I bet you'd be out more money and end up with a cobbled mishmash that doesn't work nearly as well (and quietly) as an ordinary box fan
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