Surprisingly Long-Lasting Factory Rear Brake Pads....
 

Took a good look at our factory rear pads yesterday as part of my oil & filter change. At 54,500 miles, they still have about a quarter-inch of pad material to go before they're done, so they may go 60,000 miles or more before I have to change them. Our factory front pads were done at just over 31,000 miles so I'm surprised that the rear pads have lasted this long. I assume they are semi-metallic, but they've never made nearly the horrible mess that the semi-metallic factory front pads did, so the rear pads may be organic instead. I don't think they would be ceramic....

Anyone else out there had their factory rear pads last this long? Our S-Type is primarily a highway cruiser so that certainly helps. Also, do the factory rear pads begin to chirp (built-in wear indicators doing their job) before they start to go metal-to-metal? I sure hope so, but I doubt it....

There's no indicators on either the front or rear pads that I know of. The mileage you got is similar to mine. Does your parking brake apply properly to each side?

Are you looking at the outside pad or both the outside and inside pad? My pads looked great from the outside but the inside pad was to the metal. http://www.gusglikas.com/images/Auto...RearBrakes.pdf

Ruh Roh!
I just clicked on Gus' link and found this statement:

"I had replaced the front brakes a year ago and the rears looked good."
I could make the same statment. Wife bought an 05 S-type with <30k on it and shortly thereafter it developed a squeal during braking. I dutifully trundled off to Rock Auto (online in my PJ's) and ordered up 4 rotors and a complete set of F/R ceramic pads. Changed out the fronts around Christmas,2009, and the rears looked fine, so I stashed the rotors/pads on a shelf. Wife recently complained brakes squealing at about 48K. She busted a rear wheel recently and during the changeout I checked outer pads on both rears and both looked like they had >1/4". Now I'm concerned about the inners....oh well...I have parts (and tools - seems about any 4-wheel disc application requires a device to screw in the ones that double as parking brakes so just bit the bullet and bought a $40 kit that fits most everything) but my son converted the space I had parts stored in to a band room...so now I gotta go find 'em!

My rear pads have lasted for a while as well, but dust badly (albeit not as bad as OEM front pads).
I have ceramic pads on the front, and they aren't bad as far as dusting / noise. I remember you posting something about wagner or some other brand (centric i think?) brake pads that were low dust. - Care to refresh my memory on that one?

I think it may be time to change out the rears to something low dust as well.

Take care,

George

Mikey,

No parking brake fault indicators illuminate on the dashboard message display, the parking brake works as well as it always has during our 2+ years of ownership, so I assume our EPB system is normal. I know they are troublesome, though, and I wish the car had a conventional parking brake system instead. Just another expensive, unnecessary component to break and require a costly repair....


Gus,

I always check both outboard and inboard pads. Right rear wheel outboard pad is sitting at about a quarter-inch of pad material remaining. Right rear wheel inboard pad, left rear wheel outboard pad, and left rear wheel inboard pad all have a bit more than a quarter-inch of pad material remaining....


George,

In July 2009 I replaced the spent factory front pads with Wagner ThermoQuiet semi-metallic pads with a lifetime warranty. Cost me about $45 at Advance Auto Parts using a $10 coupon. They are silent and create maybe one-fifth of the dust that the factory pads did. All three of our vehicles are now running these Wagner ThermoQuiet pads and they perform silently, flawlessly, with very minimal dust. The Lexus RX330 pads are ceramic in front and organic in back. The Dodge Ram pads are semi-metallic in front with brake shoes in the back. Only the S-Type's factory rear pads have not been converted over to Wagner ThermoQuiet. That's what I'll do when the time comes. You just cannot beat a lifetime warranty, but it may apply only to the original owner. That's fine by me....

I was wondering more if the p/brake actually works from the mechanical rather than electrical point of view. Although I had no fault displayed, mine was only grabbing on one side of the car. The caliper on the other side had partially seized not allowing the lever to fully return when releasing the p/brake. As the pads wore, the restricted motion of the lever was not sufficient to self adjust.

You can test by applying the p/brake manually while the car is in motion- rolling very slowly, transmission in neutral, foot brake not applied. The car should stop evenly without one side 'dipping' more than the other.

You'd have to work at it to miss a park-brake-fault. Snapped a cable on one side of the 2003 and the ensuing beep-fest was one of the more agitating sounds I've ever heard (and I've got 5 kids, fercryinoutloud!)
Not sure what sets it off, but I believe it is a stepper-motor and it has a range of motion it considers ok and more or less than that sets it off. Interesting that the engineers didn't fine-tune the software sufficiently to catch Mikey's fault in the diagnostics. Probably tried it and found too many false-faults at that level of fidelity.

Interesting topic. I bought my 06 S 3.0 with 22,000 miles on it. I usually replace brake pads a bit early on my cars - typically at about 15% remaining. Seems to make the rotors last longer.

Replaced my front pads at 25,000 and my rear pads at 30,000 - both with about 20% still there. Those were the factory pads. The fronts had worn faster than the rears.

Now at 45,000 miles and the dealer installed pads are at 60% front and 25% rear remaining. That's odd for any car I've owned. But the dealer response was (of course) "That's normal. We only expect 15-20K on S-Type rear pads."

Huh? Probably should have kept those factory pads longer!

I put Bendix D806CT ceramic pads on one end of the '03 and Monroe CX805 ceramic's on the other, last year. Unfortunately, I can't remember which is front and which is rear. Used new Wagner rotors all around. Good experience thus far. Replaced in early January, 2010, maybe just less than 10k miles on 'em. Dust situation drastically improved over whatever they replaced. (Car had 67k on it when acquired, just sure they weren't original.)

Is it not tested during (annual?) inspections? Here, it is measured each year ("MoT test") each side for both foot & emergency brake (it doubles as a park brake) and must reach a specified % efficiency.

U.S. annual inspections vary from state to state and sometimes even from county to county. And some inspection stations are far more lenient than others....

As Jon89 stated, inspections vary wildly from one location to another. We have none here at all in the country of Queerbec, but that's another topic.

I would be curious as to how the e/brake is tested during your MoT given that it automatically disengages.........

Not sure how things work in Yorkshire, but in the states, inspections are simply another scheme to implement a tax without calling it that.

It's easy to test: pull up the handle any time when moving. It's an emergency brake so must work.

JTIS (and/or maybe the owner's handbook?) details how hard it applies per pull depending on speed.

The aim of tests here (and in Europe) is mainly for safety, now also including emissions. So, brakes must work evenly and strongly enough, too much rust must not be present on safety-related items, tyres must be within limits, wipers & washers must work, seat belts must be present and working, also all (external) lights, etc. The full test manual is available free online if anyone is interested.

As a general rule, I take the view that my car ought to be in a condition where it would pass any day of the year although it's only tested once each year.

It's a fairly cheap test (about $75) and the tests are in the main not done by government bodies i.e. it is not really a tax.

It's a criminal offence to drive a car without a valid MoT (not due till car 3 yrs old) or without valid insurance or driving licence. Police use ANPR (automatic number plate recognition) to identify cars. Even so, various bodies claim as many as 15% of vehicles are not insured which with ANPR is very hard to believe.

Not to hijack, but how does the MoT guy evaluate effectiveness of the p/brake? Car must stop w/in X number of feet when applied at Y mph?

You can't hijack it, I already did (sorry Jon!)

Each kind of brake on each wheel is tested using a powered roller onto which the wheel is driven. Then car in neutral and roller is powered (spun up). Next the brake is applied and the braking force measured. (hmm, there must be a roller per wheel on an axle set, i.e. 2 rollers, I reckon, but I watch the dial so I can see the braking force.)

So, it's equivalent to normal braking (from some speed, don't think it exactly matters what it would be) and measuring each of the fairly obvious parameters.

The tester gives you the figures (sometimes you have to ask) per brake per wheel. I like left & right on an axle to be similar braking forces :)
Oh - the test Requires it be so, within some tolerance I don't recall.

I also like to check from year to year that the forces are not wildly different. The test doesn't exactly do that but it does test your vehicle is within the limits for that vehicle which I suppose is similar.

My state has no safety inspections, only emissions every other year.
Some states have nothing, and other states are a bit more stringent.

I have a friend from England who flat out told me that 75% of the cars on American roads would fail MoT for whatever reason, and that we don't understand how lucky we have it.

George

Most of the reasons for failure are safety-related so I hope he's wrong for your sake!

However, a lot of cars fail on emissions (and we don't have the "get outs" some of the US states have) which are only slightly out and end up being scrapped - so another car will usually be manufactured. I cannot believe it overall saves emissions but there's no joined-up thinking here. The government pretend to care, but clearly don't, and the green lobby have utterly unrealistic attitudes so may as well not exist.

I suppose what you guys consider "safe" is completely different than what we do. I have head stories as far as MoT's that cars fail for visible rust or other silly things.

New Jersey where I live used to have safety inspections, however they stopped them because they considered them to be a waste of government $$, since only 6% of the cars failed, and 3% of them for having unauthorized equipment (windows tinted etc)...

Here they cannot force you to scrap a vehicle. (Albeit if some of the leftist have their way it can happen). Also emission standards are based upon the year of manufacture so older cars are only subject to what they had to comply with new. Any car under 5 years of age, or over 25 years of age is also completely exempt. I don't know about other states but in NJ if you fail for emissions, and you can prove you spent $450 or more trying to fix the problem, albeit unsucessfully, you can get a one time two year exemption and keep the car on the road.

Take care,

George