Just wanted to know if there was a way to grease the rear bearings in situ. I just got my new car and hear rubbing noises in the right rear. I have wire wheels and so far nave not actually done any real troubleshooting which would consist of swapping a wheel from another side. I did jack that side from the lower arm and not the body in order to keep the arm in a relatively same position as if it were on the ground. There was some play at 9 and 3 o'clock position movement. I chose those positions so as to not introduce the possibility of play in other areas like the drive shaft output bearing or lower hub wishbones which I would get from grabbing the wheel at the 12 and 6 o'clock position. The perceived bearing play was not that much but a little more than the opposite side. I wanted to see if I shot some grease in the bearing cavity and the noise stopped, then I would suspect a bearing issue and not the wheel. I have a feeling it might be the wheel as a poster suggested but just seeing if bearings can be greased internally anyway without disassembling the hub carrier to do it.

Thanks,

 

If there was play at 3 and 9, did you see where the actual play is? Is it in the wheel hub or the spokes?
If this were my car, I'd pull the wheel and take a good look at the wheel hub. Rotate it, pull on it at 3&9, 12&6, and everything in between. If the play is in the hub then shooting some grease isn't going to do anything; you need to pull the axle and inspect the bearings. You also need to look at the rubber bushings in the suspension to see if those are in good shape.
Finally, take a good look at the wheel. Are there any broken spokes? Are there any loose spokes? When was the last time the wheel was trued?

 

The 3 & 9 positons "feel" like bearing play more than wire wheel spoke weakness. I wouldn't think you could actually flex a wheel so easily if it had spoke issues and if you did that you could move the wheel back and forth that much, more than one spoke woud be very obvious to the eye. The bearing play or possible noise that woud be derived from that, doesn't equal the rotating speed that more resembles a wheel circumference frequency. I guess I'll just have to start substituting wheels and lookng more carefully at the bearings and fulcrum bearings.

 

If a bearing is worn/damaged/noisy I wouldn't expect any amount of grease to provide relief....even temporary relief.

As for greasing......

I'm not sure about the hubs on later cars such as yours. Earlier cars have a hole where your grease gun tip/hose can be inserted and grease pumped in. How much grease *actually works its way into the bearing rollers* where it would be useful is the oft-wondered-about dilemma. I have my doubts.

For better or worse I used this product in the rear hubs of my present Jag. It's quite heavy but still a liquid....so I have some confidence that lubrication is actually reaching the bearings.

https://lucasoil.com/products/heavy-.../lucas-hub-oil

But I'm straying off-topic a bit....

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks. the reason for asking about if these bearings can be greased in situ, is to do a bit of troubleshooting. If I pump grease in in it and the noise goes away, then I can probably be sure the noise is related to the bearings. Yes, I agree, the greasing won't fix a worn bearing, but I will be able to tell if it is the bearings and if so, I will do the job and know it is not the wheel.. I suppose it could be something else too if the noise remains after the greasing. Basically wanted a quick way to see if it was the bearings or not. I wish the hub carrier actually had an actual grease fitting to attach the grease gun. I know if the pressure increased, it would try to go somewhere and that would probably be the seals on both bearings. I am not sure why two straight permanently greased ball bearings were not used in lieu of two tapered bearings.

 

The bearings probably need to be replaced anyways. With the right tool, it’s not terribly difficult. Bearings are relatively inexpensive. Proper tools to get the bearings out can be rented from advance auto for free.

Mine were making a growling kind of sound. Replacement and new grease seemed to be the cure.

 

Doug- Interesting product. More of an oil than a grease? Can’t say I’ve seen that at Autozone. I’m used to packing bearings the old fashioned way with a paste grease, not a liquid. Do you literally pop off the dust cap on the aluminum rear hub carrier and pour it in? -John

 

I agree with the question about oil vs grease. I know some bearings run on oil like diff bearings, which I think are more ball bearings than roller bearings which the axle uses, but with an axle bearing, I'm pretty sure the bearing needs to be packed with bearing grease (the old fashioned way using the palm of your hand or with a greaser packing device) prior to install. As long as the seal is still good and in place, it should hold the grease between the two bearings within the hub for a long time or when bearing repack or replacement is necessary.

 

That's it. I estimated/eyeballed/guessed that filled the hub about halfway.

As for packing bearings....yes, that would be nice. On these rear hubs, though, that means a full tear down with pressing the bearings off-n-on, resetting the clearances with shims, etc. Not at all like the front hubs, sadly.

Cheers
DD

 

Exactly



A 'long time', yes, but how many years can the grease be expected to hold up? I dunno. But the inability to *conveniently* repack the bearings on a periodic basis in an itch for me.

On the plus side, the bearings are generously sized and often solider on for ages and ages with zero servicing. I'm quite sure that 90% never even receive the (questionably effective) exercise of pumping in some new grease from time-to-time.

Cheers
DD

 

Because they are tapered roller bearings, I would think there would be a repacking requirement specified. if there is, I don't know what that is. Are the replacement schedule "on condition", meaning when they wear out, you replace them. I know bearings don't last forever, but it would be nice to know the repacking or periodic lubrication schedule. As far as the work required, unlike the actual removal of a caged ball bearing that has to be pressed out for replacement if bad ie, front or rear bearings on an Audi hub, these tapered bearings merely fall out in your hand after the stub axle is withdrawn. The tapered bearings can then be cleaned, inspected and re greased without having to pound out the race if they are not worn. Repack with grease, pop everything back in, adjust for any wear with shims and back in business.

 

The only thing I've seen is a rather vague reference to "greasing front and rear hubs" every 15k miles. No mention of removing and repacking bearings, specifically. Greasing the hubs isn't the same as repacking the bearing, of course.

Lucky you !

My experience is on the X300s hubs and the older XJS/XJ6/XJ12 hubs used on the inboard brake cars and is quite different from yours.

Removing the bearings for repacking involves hub pullers, a press for bearing removal/installation of the bearings (or using a hammer and drift), an initial mock-up assembly to check clearances with your dial indicator, and final assembly with the correct shim (about 100 sizes available...all "special order"). Its not a 15 minute thing and the bearings certainly don't drop off into your hands . I can't imagine anyone going through the effort every 15k mies, that's for sure !

I can only assume the rear hubs on face lift XJSs are easier to contend with....thus your experience being so different from mine.


Cheers
DD

 

Well...I may have exaggerated a bit when saying falls out in my hand. I was referring to the fact that if they designed the hub to use the tapered roller bearing type bearings, they must have expected them to be easily disassembled in order to effect a repacking periodically, unlike the sealed or permanently greased bearings used modern hubs. Tapered roller bearings are typically used on applications where you would have the inner bearing up against a fixed point, affix the spinning hub, then the outer roller bearing and and then thread don the large nut to a specific pressure or until there is no play. These are then re packable or replaceable at certain times or when worn.
Anyway this is jaguar so who knows. It's a 60's design that has made its way to the 90s and beyond I guess. I'm not sure if the same design has continued beyond my 95 year.

 

"Easily" can be a tricky word

Click here and go to post #3 where you'll find a link to a pictorial on removing/reinstalling the bearings

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...1990-a-181676/

But, you are correct in that the bearings are "serviceable" versus non-serviceable sealed bearings. Whether or not Jaguar intended or expected them to be repacked at regular intervals is open for debate


What you are describing is the front hubs and bearings, not the rear !



I think the sealed bearings made their appearance on the front hubs with the introduction of the X308 cars, 1997/1998. Not sure when/if the rear hubs went to sealed bearings

Cheers
DD

 

Loose spokes can definitely be a big problem, as Age, Rust, Torque, Side loads, Wear. can wreak havoc on them, and you may not see it with the naked eye. But I'm here to tell you check the spokes. Raise the car and take a small hammer and lightly tap the spokes you should get a nice high pitch ring to each if you get a dull thunk you definitely have loose spokes! you'll know the difference real quick by the sound. Having wheels this old I can't believe you haven't got some loose ones. I rode motorcycles long before alloy wheels, and believe me, spokes being loose can cost you some hyde, if you're not real careful!

Jack

 

Believe me... I am not discounting the loose spokes possibility but I was "assured" the wheels were good and run true when I bought the car just three weeks ago. It is easier to believe I can replace bearings than to take the sad fact that I have bad wire wheels and have to either fix them ($$) or replace all four wheels with solids, which I kind of wanted to do anyway, but not quite yet if I don't have to.
All of this discussion what it could be and how to see if it is one thing or another has all been arm chair for the moment as it is way too cold to work on the car up here in the northeast. Just running ideas and options by understanding the wheel, hub mechanicals and what noises each could produce if worn. Thanks for your advice. There is no honor in having wire wheels that are bad and unsafe, but they sure look pretty. By the way, the centers of some of the wheels have peeling chrome. What to do about that?

 

A couple of ideas:


1. I like the suggestion of tapping a loaded spoke. For me, it goes back to my days as a kid and bicycles. And a neat little circular wrench that fit the spoke nipples. And, from time to time, we replaced individual spokes.


2. Spokes in good shape look great. But, a decent set of alloys perform better.


3. If you are in doubt as to the condition of he hubs, I'd plan on servicing both. Get a spare pair. Read up on how to do them. Drive and enjoy the car as you prepare the spares. then when ready, swap 'em. Refurbish the originals and sell. Get new toy/tool!!


Carl

 

Yeah I also think the wires are Cool! The guy I bought my Jag from has rebuilt and restored Jaguars for 35+ years, thus the Name "Jaguar Larry" I asked about the wires, as I could have had either one, and he told me pretty much what I posted before. As well as the fact they won't stay balanced very well. Especially if you put a lot of power to them, or drive real aggressive. He said driven aggressively they should be trued, and tightened about every six months, and since I intend to drop a 460 Ford into My Jag, he said he'd definitely stay with the Alloy's. Point well taken. As far as the peeling chrome I have seen advertisements in Hemming's Road and Track etc, for wheel refurbishing. Hope it
helps.

PS> The bolt patter is 5 on 4 3/4" same as most older mid size GM products, Just watch the offset as the Jag wheels aren't very deep.

Jack

 

Thanks for that. I had asked for the bolt pattern size and offset some posts ago and didn't receive a reply. Could be that I hid the question in the middle of one of the posts.
Anyway, I am not familiar with that size format in inches. Yes, I am in the USA but I have only seen wheels shown in millimeter for instance, for my BMW it's 5X120(mm) with a 20mm offset. How would it be written for the 95 XJS so I can shop accordingly. Thanks. I understand the 95 and 96 models used a 16" or 16X7 wheel size.

 

You might see it as 120.65mm

Lots of debate over the years as to whether or not that .65mm is significant

Cheers
DD