Hi everyone,

I have this very frustrating situation any help would be much appreciated. I purchased a 2015 F-type V8S about 2-3 months ago still under factory warranty. I also purchased 3 years additional CPO. I brought the car in for a check engine. At first the service adviser said that it was a o2 sensor. Then a few days later I get a call saying that the "engine computer has been modified" and the ECU needs to get replaced and this is not covered under warranty. P167F-00 NON-OEM CALIBRATION HAS BEEN FLASHED INTO THE ENGINE CONTROL MODULE.

The issue is that I have NOT done anything to the car. It is 100% stock. I have not tuned or upgraded it in any way. The previous owner must have.... My question is how why did the code show up 2-3 month after purchase? How did they not catch it on CPO inspection? How do I prove to them I did not do anything? The only thing that ever did is plug in a bluetooth OBD scan tool ( ) but that should not have thrown a code?

Any help would be much appreciated. The dealer advised me to not contact Jaguar corporate because they would void my warranty on the spot.

Thanks!

 

I suspect the initial CEL was indeed caused by an O2 sensor issue. The dealer probably tried to update the ECU software which triggered the P167F-00 warning and may have prevented the update. Others have actually had their ECUs bricked (locked up) when a dealer tried to update a tuned ECU, turning the whole car into a big brick. If your car is still operational, there's some hope. Otherwise you're screwed and the dealer will have to replace the ECU. If the car is still running, you will need to contact the original owner and find out who did the tune. If you can do that, the original tuner might have the OEM tune on file and you could load it onto the car. The ECU would still be flagged as having been messed with, but at least the dealer could perform the updates without replacing the ECU.


That's the technical side of the issue. The legal side is that you should go back to where you bought the car and demand that they resolve the issue for you (or at least provide you the name of the original owner so you can find out who the tuner was).

 

Unhingd is right here (as usual) but its actually the dealerships legal responsibility since they sold you a CPO on a car containing a tuned ECU.

 

Previous owner tuned the car, your choices now to go after PO and/or dealer that sold you the car as CPO.

If the car was ever tuned your warranty/extended warranty is gone and voided.

 

Does the ECU date stamp the change when it was flashed? If so maybe that is a way to prove it was done before your ownership?

 

If there was no check engine light during the inspection, and the car was running well, there was no reason to go into the OBD system. Thus, the modification was undiscovered


Not sure about the terms and conditions of the CPO warranty but the original *factory warranty*....if there is any time/miles remaining....can't be voided for this. Coverage for specific repairs related to the modification might be denied but the warranty can't be outright voided.

I'm not familiar with the CPO Warranty but it almost certainly isn't a warranty at all but, rather, a service contract/insurance policy type of thing. Different legalities would apply versus the factory warranty.

I agree that this is a matter for the selling dealer to sort out....hopefully with minimal nudging on your part.

Cheers
DD

 

My question exactly!

 

I am almost certain that it does not record any dates.
It will however, use a check digit methodology to determine that the tune has been changed

 

I was hoping there was going to be a date code stored. Because I can already see this going as a "he said she said situation" When I picked the car up it was late, so there wasn't anyone from service working. I spoke with the GM of the dealership. He didn't say that I modified the ECU. But I could tell the he was impromptu implying it.

 

For some OBD codes, there is a mileage/timestamp but not all software can pull it I believe. The dealer's SDD equipment may do and it's at least worth asking them if it would help your case that the tune didn't happen on your watch....

 

Quote “The dealer advised me to not contact Jaguar corporate because they would void my warranty on the spot.“

This sounds suspect to me. Perhaps they don’t want Jaguar corporate to find out that they (the dealer) sold the car as certified pre-owned without a full inspection. I would notify Jaguar corporate to complain about these strong arm tactics.
CRS

 

I would wait until the dealer advises the claim has definitely been denied / warranty has been voided.

The dealer may be trying to figure out how to resolve this without alerting JLR to the issue. If the OP calls JLR he may limit the chances of this happening. They are unlikely to be sympathetic to a tune being applied to the engine.

 

The dealer should buy the car back. It was sold with a latent defect. You bought and paid for a warranty you didn't get. Seems to me you have a good case for recision. I would make a demand to unwind the deal and it doesn't happen get a good lawyer's letter. The car will always be suspect. Better to move on.

 

Agreed.

Bringing JLR in at this point might make matters worse; they might tie the dealer's hands.

Personally, I'd hold off a bit and try to resolve it at the dealer level.

Cheers
DD

 

It would be interesting to see what, exactly, is included on the CPO checklist. It might not include probing the OBD to see if any changes were made. Or maybe it does. I dunno.

Not strong-arming, IMO. It was probably good advice....at least for the time being.

If the dealer is willing to work to resolve the issue....which isn't certain at this point....bringing JLR into the matter might not be a good idea. Waiting a couple days won't hurt.

Cheers
DD

 

Before they CPO any car, they would install any and all FLASH updates on all modules (o at least verify them) that makes hooking up to the OBD2 anyway.

Secondly, NOBODY should flash anything without asking an owner first, from the days when Dinan applied the funny stickers stating so on my BMW round port, I have made it a habit to place a sticker near the OBD2 port stating so and NOT TO FLASH this car.

The code in question is a PERMANENT code. Most tunes will trigger it and I have a bit of an issue with tuners that manage to avoid it because it COULD save bricking an ECU. I know for a fact of one tuner that has bragged in here about their ability to get around it.

Personally I never buy used because I don't want to take over any hidden issue.

With that said, looking further into this would take you to the Magnusson Act (Federal Law concerning warranty). They need to prove that the issue is exclusively due to your modification...

 

It isn't his modification, it is PO's that CPO inspection failed to notice.

There are a lot of failures happened:

1. PO tuned the car and turned it in without undoing the tune
2. Dealer failed to do mandatory check prior to certifying the car as CPO

 

I think you missed my whole point... I suggest you read my reply again.

 

A buy-back is highly unlikely, IMO. I wouldn't count on a lawyer's letter doing the trick; it might work with some dealers....but others don't feel particularly threatened by "lawyer letters" and might well say "Fine, if that's how you wanna play it. Have your attorney call our attorney and we'll see how things look in two or three months".

Before making any decisions I'd let it play out a bit and see what the dealer can/can't/will/won't do. *IF* the dealer is willing to work towards a solution sans lawyers and JLR then that's the way to go. Putting more cooks in the kitchen isn't always the best idea.

OTOH, if the dealer is unwilling to resolve the issue......eff 'em !

Cheers
DD

 

If the root fault is simply an O2 sensor and while troubleshooting that, the dealer discovered the traces of a tune, why does the ECU needed to be replaced?