What are the odds?
Yesterday, Her Ladyship refused to start. Just cranking over. Not great.

She'd done this once before, about a month ago, but started up fine 15 minutes later. Then on June 17 I had a problem with her starting up from warm--she would catch, but never fully, and just choke and die. Three times in a row before she finally fired normally. And then yesterday morning, just cranking.
Although the JAF (AA Japan) guy said the pump was working (checked by listening at the open filler door), my usual garage has diagnosed a failed fuel pump. Which was supposed to have been replaced just last February. Won't be happy if it's already failed. I don't know what model pump is currently in her, but the shop that did it gave me the old one (Walco) in a Walco/Glencoe/Sytec-labelled box.
I want to make sure it's not the Fuel Pump Fuse(s), Fuel Pump Relay, etc., but assuming I do need a new fuel pump, Rock Auto has Bosch and Denso (wouldn't touch URO), and reading reviews, Walco should be pretty good as well.
Also going to get a new fuel filter for under the car--not aware that's ever been changed, and certainly not recently.

In addition to any advice that anyone is willing to offer, I do have a couple of questions about work to get done once the tank is out....
1. Is the rivet that supposedly rubs a hole in the tank also present on facelift cars? If anyone has a photo or diagram of the location, that would be a great help.
2. Replacing the pad the tank sits on might be a good idea as well. What's a good thing to use here?

Thanks as always for any advice, suggestions, comments, and so on....

PS: I also had an FF14 warning last Sunday, but after checking the number on the trip computer, it hasn't come back. Related? Not sure how, as FF14 is the coolant thermistor, I gather. I did check the connections, but I'm not entirely sure which bank it's on.

 

Do you habitually drive with a low tank? If so, the aftermarket pump may have not survived.

I have a fuel pump in X type that has been wanting to go out for a while now, but maintaining the car above 1/2 seems to be nursing it along until I am ready to change it.

 

Not really, no. Having read before (when the previous pump was changed) that this can be a problem (overheating pump), I have been careful to fill up reasonably regularly. It almost never drops down to the red zone. At the moment, it's about a third full. Should be plenty.

 

Empty the contents of the old filter into a clean jar. What you see (or don;t see) might dictate your next steps.

Contaminated fuel can hurt a pump.

Or....it may well be just a case of a manufacturing defect in the recently replaced pump. It happens.

Cheers
DD

 

Yeah, that sounds most likely. The fuel shouldn't be contaminated. I hope. Since replacing the pump I've stayed away from discount service stations and only use major brand fuel. Probably much the same, true....

 

I have just replaced both failed pumps in my xkr that I believe to be just lack of use, sitting for 6 months.
Tried to move my xjs yesterday and yep failed fuel pump, lucky for me it’s an external pump in the boot.
Cut open all the pumps and nothing wrong electrically just tight to turn due to light contamination.
will see how long they last.

 

If that filter is unknown, I would do it first, easier by far.

Especially since someone has stated the pump is working, as in he heard it.

Fuel pump relay, maybe, its not young anymore.

Not sure of the Earth for the in tank pumps, maybe the same as the earlier cars, with that Orange relay wire earthing via the ECU circuits, which go bad.

ALSO

My XJ40, X300 all had issues with the small wiring loom that travels from the tank access lid to the pump, bad connections, and easily sorted a very long time ago.

Another thing, X300 related, the supply hose has a habit of blowing OFF the pump, so the pump works, whoopee, but simply sprays fuel around inside the tank, fitting a clamp was a TSB waaaay back.

Beer O'clock just got called, have fun.

 

Grant - thanks for that list of extras to check first. I'll make a note of them.
While the JAF man reckoned he could hear the fuel pump, the garage guy says it's gone, and I do remember not hearing a peep from the boot when I tried firing it up (even with the boot open). But I will definitely make sure they are sure of their diagnosis.

 

In addition to any advice that anyone is willing to offer, I do have a couple of questions about work to get done once the tank is out....
1. Is the rivet that supposedly rubs a hole in the tank also present on facelift cars? If anyone has a photo or diagram of the location, that would be a great help.
2. Replacing the pad the tank sits on might be a good idea as well. What's a good thing to use here?


Have you checked the strainer inside the surge tank. If the strainer sleeve is split, your pump will get dirty crap all day long. I just removed my tank in my '84 and the rivet issue did not exist. I think that may have been an issue in the earlier models. I used my old pad as it was in reasonable condition.

(I replaced my strainer sleeve. It cost $3.60)

By the way, your engine bay is in amazing condition!

Craig

 

Hi Crackerbuzz

When I took the Fuel Tank out of my 95 Facelift, I didn't see any Rivet and when I put the Tank back, I sat it on a Sheet of very hard rubber

If you have a look at page 92 of my 'Cherry Blossom' restoration thread, there is not only a Photo of the Empty Space but also a Complete Guide to removing the Fuel Tank and Replacing the Fuel Pump with Lots of Photos!

That might either help you or someone else

Removing the Fuel Tank and Replacing The Fuel Pump on my 1995 Facelift 4.0L XJS with AJ16 Engine with lots of Photos!

 

Thanks for the tip. I hope to cycle down to the garage tomorrow and talk about things like that. Basically confirm how they know it's the pump.
And thanks for the nice words about Lady Mary's engine bay. I do try to keep it clean, but mainly just desultory wiping around with a rag and so on. I haven't dared actually wash it--too many electrical connections to waterproof.

 

Hi Someday

I doubt if you'll hear the Fuel Pump Run, unless you listen Very Carefully while someone else Turns the Ignition Key On and Off, as the Fuel Pump only works for about 3 Seconds, at every On and Off Actuation of the Ignition Key

Worth Checking the Fuel Pump Relay, as that is a bit easier than taking out the Tank!

 

Actually, with the new fuel pump (that has failed on me), I could hear it run even while driving at times. A faint, high-pitched whine from the rear. A sound that only started when the pump was replaced. (Yes, I pay very careful attention to the sounds my car makes....)

 

Minor Update:
I cycled down to the garage, and asked the chief mechanic (who was working on a very nice blue 1980s Ferrari) about the pump and how they knew it was the pump. He said that they both applied power to the relay (fine), and directly to the pump, both at the right-hand socket connection near the relays and stuff in the right wing, and at the socket where the power leads feed into the pump. And nada.
However, when he turned the key to the II position to demonstrate the lack of noise, I could hear the pump running . He had a listen, I turned the key further (not realising he hadn't turned it back to 0), and the engine fired up perfectly happily .
That being said, the pump is clearly on its last legs, so I will get it and the inline fuel filter replaced. I'll let them organize the filter, as that isn't that expensive, but it's way cheaper to get a pump shipped in from overseas, even including postage.
The pump the Nagoya shop gave me back (being the old one they replaced) is a Walbro. This thing: Walbro Jaguar Fuel Pump on eBay
Other good brands are apparently Denso and Bosch, though the pump looks a bit different and doesn't appear to come with the strainer, etc. But any recommendations would be gratefully received, of course.

 

I believe Walbro is the OEM maker of the pump, although who knows if what you can buy in the aftermarket is the same quality as the ones Jaguar bought. Having said that, Rockauto shows Bosch as the OEM, I could be thinking of later cars that changed to Walbro. You probably can't go wrong with either.

There are two generic types, inline and in-tank. The inline is the earlier style, and as used on Series III XJ6, the one with a strainer is the in-tank style. Match up what you have, otherwise they are not too critical about small differences.

 

That would explain why the old pump is a Walbro. Mine's definitely the in-tank version, no doubt about that. This is the old pump and the box that the Nagoya shop gave me.


This is the old pump, and, one assumes, the box the new pump came in. Which implies the same brand was fitted. The brand that failed in a bit over a year....

 

There is a possibility of some water in the tank, maybe that's why the pump failed? Or, as Doug theorized, simply a subar pump. In Canada the fuel gets methanol added to it in the winter to prevent freezing, as methanol absorbs water. Couldn't hurt to add 500ml of methanol to a tank of fuel to absorb any water that might be there.

Walbro's are use by a number of OEM's, so they typically are good pumps.

 

Yes, reading up on them, some of the first hits were about detecting fake Walbro pumps, so presumably they're desirable enough for there to be fakes going around.
Add methanol to tank? Hmm. I wonder if the fuel here has it anyway. Or perhaps those fuel cleaner/injector cleaner things do. I shall investigate.

 

Hi Someday

Could it be that the Blades of the Fuel Pump Relay were not making proper contact, as can sometimes happen if the Blades are either too thin or may have got corroded or dirty in someway?

Where taking the Relay out of its holder and then putting it back, can sometimes get it working again for no apparent reason as why else would the Fuel Pump start to work again?

Might be worth changing the Relay for a Top quality OEM one, before you spend millions of Yen on a New Pump

 

Hmmm. Tempting, but from what the mechanic told me, unlikely--he said they applied power directly to the pump, by-passing the relay, and it still fritzed out. He suggested heat variations might cause the metal in the pump to expand just enough to screw it up. At any rate, with power applied directly to the pump and the pump still not working, it's likely some intermittent fault in the pump itself.

It looks to me as if, especially in hindsight, there may be a gradual decline towards failure, with good times and the odd bad time:
Mid Feb: Takes two goes to start engine each time. First time, cranks, nothing, then seems to stop or something. Second time, immediate fire. Would fire more easily if I turned to Position II, let the pump run, then back then again to fire. Condition improved by late Feb.
13 May: Didn't start up. Same cranking issue. But did start up after leaving it quarter of an hour.
16-30 May: In shops for respray, glass coating. Minimal engine use.
9 June: Transmission whine when starting for the second time (return trip) that day. Not the first time this has happened.
17 June: Caught, low revs, and immediately died three times in a row after getting some MOS Burger. No problems 4th time.
19 June: Couple of seconds lag on catching in the morning. Nothing too out of the ordinary, but after Feb's issues, I noted it down in my Chauffeur's Log.
23 June: FF14 Check Engine warning. Key to Position II to clear it, remained off.
26 June: Cranking, not catching. Battery read 12.6V across terminals, then 14V after cranking (don't have the slip with me to check). Trailered to garage.
29 June: Fired up right away at the garage. Curiouser and curiouser...