Help please
 

I have a 2.2 diesel X Type estate. 2009

This problem has happened three times before but has suddenly rectified itself whilst being tested on the diagnostic so the fault was never found. The diagnostic computer showed no faults. The fuel rail pressure is normal in the few seconds it fires up.

The problem is that the car drives fine but then all of a sudden for no reason when you stop and then try to start the engine it bursts into life as normal but immediately dies after 1 or 2 seconds.

In the last couple of months I have put in a new battery, put in a bosch fuel filter, changed the MAF, changed the Camshaft sensor, cleaned out the EGR (which wasn't dirty), the fuel cut off has not triggered, but now it will start every time but will then immediately die after a couple of seconds.

So until I can find out why it bursts into life then immediately dies Im not going anywhere.

Any suggestions anyone ?

Ideally you would need to see live data of all the sensors.
Crankshaft sensor is a possibility as these are known to do this type of fault, also swarf can collect on this sensor too.
Another possibility in the pump inlet metering valve.


Also check carefully the wiring/connectors of the common rail pressure sensor.


Paul.

Hi Paul, thanks for the advice, I have ordered a crankshaft sensor so I will put that in and see if it helps. Last time this fault occurred a friend (mechanic) connected his diagnostic computer and tested everything one by one and in the couple of seconds when the engine burst into life no faults were found. Then all of a sudden it burst into life and ran as normal for a couple of weeks until it happened again. Ill check the wiring too.

Hi, Sorry to sound dim, I'm normally pretty good around an engine but I have been looking for the crankshaft sensor for over an hour with a torch but I can't find it. Can anyone point me towards a diagram or a photo please ?

Looked at the shop manual for gas engines and shows the Crankshaft Position Sensor to be near the main flywheel.

Do not have a manual for diesels, but probably in a similar location...

Attachment 210419

Harry,
On the left hand side of the engine, follow the egr pipe back that goes to a flange of the egr cooler, directly under this flange you will see the crank sensor plug on the gearbox/clutch bell housing.


Paul.

Attached is the part blow up from the SNG Barratt cataolg so you can get a visual of what you are searching for. It doesn't appear from the blow up to be mounted on the rear of the engine.

The catalogue does not show the relative position of the crank sensor.
When looking at the clutch bell housing to engine block mating bolts, the sensor is at approx 1 o' clock, when looking from the left hand side wing, and it is directly under the egr cooler flange.


Paul.

Hi Man on the hill. still can't see it, when you say 'left hand side' is that looking from the front of the car or from inside the car ?

The EGR is on the left of the car as looking from the front but I can't see anything underneath it, do I have to take out the EGR ?

Thanks
Harry

Left and right in car speak are always as if you are sitting in the car.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...38a9465f6e.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...54dd7d1ba8.jpg

Thanks for your help,

I have removed the air filter cover and hoses and now I can see the little tinker. Just have to get it out and change it.

Well that was all a waste of time !
The new Crankshaft sensor made no difference.

She fires up, runs for about 2 or 3 seconds then dies. Over and over.

So heres a list of stuff I have tried:
sealed windscreen to stop water dripping on ECU cables
Removed ECU to check for water damage - none
New Varta Silver Dynamic Battery, 800Ah cranks at about 11v
Remove and clean EGR (wasn't dirty)
Remove fuel tank cap to check for debris or blocked intake (none)
New Bosch fuel filter, (cut open old one which had no debris)
New MAF
New Cam sensor
New Crank sensor.
Every step has made no difference whatsoever. She fires up first time then dies after a couple of seconds.
The engine warning light goes off as she fires up.

Any ideas anyone ???
Feeling a bit glum here.

When the diagnostic computer was on it the fuel rail was normal pressure when she fired up and died

If the egr valve is not closed off properly, it will cause the symptoms you describe.
Cleaning the egr does not guarantee that the valve is seating properly.
I assumed you had checked the valve when cleaning it.
Either blank it or replace then I expect it to be sorted.


Paul.

I don't bloody believe it !!!!!!

I slipped a piece of metal in the EGR to block it off and it fired up and is running as sweet as a nut.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, a million kisses Mr Man on the Hill, My wife wants your babies !!!!

Ah slight problem

So now she fires up and ticks over fine,

but on a test drive starts misfiring around 2000 revs and then cuts out. Fires up fine again and then cuts out about 2000 revs, when stationary she revs fine up to 2000 revs then misfires and cuts out, and now the engine warning lights is on.

Any thoughts Please ?

Harryxtype, the problem was in the air intake system, did you replace the air fiter, it's seem like some thing blocked the air in take; either the butter fly in the throttle body was tuck, or air leak in air intake hoses after MAF sensor, check those hose clams to see if they are fited and tight.

The 2.2d does not have any butterfly valve in the intake, it has no restriction.
If you were to now read the error codes, you will see insufficient egr flow, which is expected and will bring on the eml, it is the other error codes that will be of interest.


Have you carefully checked connectors and wiring that you have moved/changed before ?


It sounds like a possible weak sensor output, the crank sensor is the touchy one regarding position height, whilst I have not changed one yet, I believe the bracket/clamp allows limited height movement to be set on the bolt ?
I seem to remember the manual saying about checking that the sensor does not contact the flywheel.


Reading the codes would be a smart move now, one down one to go !


Paul.

Hi Paul
OK, the air filter is 2 months old
The MAF is 2 months old
Yes the crankshaft sensor is adjustable, I painted the old one and set the new one to the same height.
The check engine light has now come on and the onboard computer error codes are now as follows;
D200
9381
D900
9601
9213
9205
9202

Forgive me my friends, I didn't read it clearly and did't know it was diesel, so it must have the turbo. I don't have diesel engine, but had another car with turbo that had the same symtom, after few headach with missfire codes, fianally found the rubber hose connect the turbo pipe to the intercooler at the radiator was came off,so turbo didn't blow all the air in the engine, the engine can not shuck enough air through intercooler by itself, after reinstalled the hose and tighten it up the engine start right up and run strongly since.

Harry,
I have had a quick look at the hex codes, could not get very far with them.
You need to get a diagnostic code reader, I use the icarsoft i930, it does ecu, abs and srs codes as well as reset.


Thang, no problem, these puma based diesels are unusual little beasties !


Paul.

The Jaguar X Type instrument clusterEngineers Test Mode (ETM) will indicate Many of the vehicle DTCs however it will only show faults detected during continuous operation and not self test faults. Because of this it should not be considered as a replacement for an OBDII code reader required to read the standard DTCs.

The codes are presented in hexadecimal format, the Most Significant Bit will be a number or letter 1,9,A,D or E, followed by 3 Decimal digits.

The first hex digit corresponds directly to the DTC code identifying the system related to the trouble code.


1XXX relates to Enhanced (manufacturer specific) codes P1
9XXX relates to Body Enhanced (manufacturer specific) codes B1
AXXX relates to Body Enhanced (manufacturer specific) codes B2
DXXX relates to Undefined (manufacturer specific) codes U1
EXXX relates to Undefined (manufacturer specific) codes U2



The last 3 digits are in Decimal and relate directly to the DTC code. i.e D900 = U1900 which is a CAN bus fault.
The numbers can relate to a number of different problems (like the example above) so should only be used as a guide. The use of a DTC code reader is the best way to recover diagnosis codes and information

Hi, we we seem to be up and running again thanks to help and advice on this forum.

SO basically the EGR valve was stuck open, which was causing the engine to die immediately on start up. As this dd not show up on the diagnostic, I mistakenly replaced the fuel filter, the cam sensor and the crank sensor. The forum advice from "Man on the Hill" was to block off the EGR, which I did by slackening the bolts and putting a piece of tin lid in to block the intake, caused the engine to fire up straight away. Indicating the EGR was stuck open. The secondary fault which was the misfiring around 2000 revs turned out to be incorrect Crank shaft sensor setting. I pushed it further in and the misfire disappeared.

So I am now dismantling the EGR and then disabling it permanently.

I removed the EGR and inspected it, sure enough there was a huge piece of gooey crud holding the valve open.

So I have now disabled the EGR, the way I have done this is to remove the EGR and clean it, then remove the cover to the electric motor. there are three cogs, remove the last cog and there are two metal pins on it, remove those metal pins and the motor carries on working as normal but it doesn't drive the EGR valve, so the valve stays permanently shut but the car thinks it is still operating.

After a few cycles the Engine warning light has gone off, so Happy Days

:icon_woot:

Good to hear you are all back up and running.
At some point I expect you will get the eml back on for insufficient egr flow.


A side effect of egr blanking is slightly more diesel knock when up to temperature and on light cruising throttle, Shell v power works wonders for reducing that !


Btw in May this year stricter mot regs come in to force, with automatic failure for eml showing, as well as non standard exhausts etc.

Well guys, heres an update, the problem with starting and immediately stopping was a 'stuck open' EGR valve. I have now cleaned out the EGR and reinstalled it and fitted an EGR simulator. I have done about 500 miles without the engine light coming on again. When a friend connected his diagnostic computer the read outs were normal for a perfectly working EGR even though it was totally disconnected.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...72b780f935.jpg

So this is the EGR emulator, which I have used for about 500 miles now. the EGR is completely disconnected, but according to the Diagnostic computer, the EGR is working perfectly normally.

Harry,
With the egr simulator fitted have you noticed any difference with light throttle cruising speed control accuracy ?
Does it make the static throttle slightly less defined in this situation, so requiring more throttle corrections when holding a constant speed on level roads ?


Paul.

Hello Man on the hill, I have noticed that the engine is far more responsive in all situations. Accelleration is far more WOW, and cruising is as gentle as you like, on a flat level road everything is as sweet and gentle as you would like it to be. The fact is that according to the diagnostic computer the EGR is working normally even though it is disconnected.