p0171 & p0174 problem
 

My wife has a 2003 X-type 2.5 with 72,000 miles. Over the last 2 months she has been getting the p0171 & p0174 codes for lean on bank 1 & 2. I have had the care in to a independent British cars service mechanic. He checked all the vacuum hoses and did a smoke test. He could not find any leaks. I changed the air filter and cleaned the MASS sensor with recommended cleaner.

I have noticed the the car has a rough idle when first started in the morning. Sometimes it will show a check engine light and cruise control unavailable message. After the engine has run for about 1 to 2 minutes the idle smooths and the car runs perfect. It has good acceleration and does not hesitate from a quick start from a stop sign.

I asked the mechanic if it could be the IMT gaskets, but he told me that if they were bad, or if it were a vacuum leak, we we probably would be hearing a hiss. The throttle chamber butterfly has not been cleaned yet. Could this be sticking when the engine is first started? Any other suggestions? I am taking the car back to the mechanic in a couple of days and leaving it for a few days to see if he can track down the problem.

Anyone have some suggestions?

Whoop whoop whoop his a...well uneducated in the common problem with the xtype. Its 2 8mm bolts in the top imt. Pull it out and inspect the orings, if theyre not green replace them. He could have check those almost as fast as opening the hood. Replace the pcv hose with new style ribbed and heat shrink the brake booster check valve in the middle of the pipe.

Thanks Brutal! My mechanic must have already check the IMT "O" rings, as I unbolted the two IMTs this morning as suggested. It took about 5 min. :-) They are the green ones and do not appear to be brittle! I also rechecked all the hoses and carefully checked the brake booster valve.

About three months ago my mechanic replaced the fuel filter. Shortly after that we started to get the occasional check engine light, cruise control unavailable and the p0171 & p0174 code.

I have run about two tanks of gas through the car using fuel system cleaner and the frequency of the problem has decreased. However, every morning when we start the car,or it been sitting for a few days, it idles rough for a few minutes. After that, as I mentioned, it then runs great!

It almost seems that for those first few minutes it is starving for fuel. I do not know enough about the Jaguar engine, but is there some sort of fuel reservoir in the engine compartment that could be draining, and it takes a few minutes to get a clean fuel stream going?

Sorry to be showing my age, and talking about how my old carb equipped cars worked :-) Anyone have any other suggestions?

Mikeda

For clarity, this post was copied from the new members section where Brutal had already responded.
It's a 2003 X Type 2.5 with 72K.

ide have thought you would move the whole enchilada amigo? its runs poorly in the morning when cold because of shrinkage factor, no not that one, but similar. once the engine warms and the metal and plastic expnd it seals the leak. Next on the list would be upper and lower intake gaskets. theyre orings too and tend to leak. personally I go for the common first. then I monitor shrt term fuel trims while I spray my favorit flammable substance around the engine to see if its ingested as shown but the ecu pulling fuel(-neg fuel trims). then youve found your culprit/s. The other area to check as a last resort is the brake booster intself. Now if your around 100k and never rpelaced spark plugs, now the time to do it and replace the upper and lower intake gaskets while killing 2 birds with 1 stone:)

You're right Brutal, the relevant parts of the Enchilada have been included here now. :-)

Lol what did you say norri? Can you say that louder mate:)

Thanks to all who have commented! Brutal's suggestions is what my mechanic at British Cars service in Thousand Oaks, CA told me. Problem has been that when I take the car in, the engine is warm and any minor leaks probably have sealed themselves. Plan to drop the car off Sunday night. This way Monday morning, hopefully when he starts it the rough idle will occur. Car has 72,000 miles and still is original plugs. He mentioned that the next thing would be checking the input manifold gaskets.

He also told me that if he needs to go that far, then might as well change the plugs. Sounds like I have a pretty good and honest mechanic, as he has been hesitating to have me spend more money until he has eliminated the easier less expensive solutions. He feels that throwing parts at a problem is not what experienced mechanics do! Guess I will keep him :-)

Mikeda

yes, but really knowing the engine/car and issues that are common meens not spending a bunch of diag time and your money trying to pin an issue.I would have rpelaced all the common issues if not done. Because for the time to diag. would be more than the job itself. Now when the enignes cold youll get alot of roughness because the leaks are big. but theyre still there when warm, and can be seen monitoring STFT(short term fuel trims) while spraying vacuum leak sources.
If the car where mine(my daughter has 1 now) and at 70k plus I would just do the plugs and upper AND lower intake gaskets. They suck, literally when they get alittle old and shrink and leak. Throwing good parts at a good part is not wise. But doing maintence and replaceing suspect parts all at the same time is a wise move and cost effective. Once the upper intake is off to replace the plugs, its olny 4 more bolt to lift the lower injection manifold up and slide the new gaskets underneath. Then new gaskets for the intake and plugs and your done. I would also check the lower IMT. I have seen where someone has replaced the easy upper and left a old leaking one on the bottom thinking its hard to remove(its not any harder) and Ive seen this a few times so it bears mentioning.,. Another leak source are the 2 fittings that the plastic pipes go into the intake through. (the brake booster pipe, and purge pipes) They make a kit to replace these and easy to do. theres a orings down insde them that leaks or plain gets sucked into the engine.

We are dropping the car off Sunday evening, so that the mechanic can start it cold on Monday morning. Your suggestion to do the gaskets and plugs is the one I have been suggesting to my wife as her car does have close to 73,000 miles.

Thanks for confirming this recommendation. British Motors, the independent small shop I have been going to, quoted me around $800 to $900 to change the gaskets, hoses and and spark plugs. Is this a reasonable price? The engine is a 2.5L and I do live in the Los Angeles area.

Thanks again Brutal! This is really a helpful forum for us "only knowledgeable enough to get it trouble Jaguar enthusiasts"!

Hell no doesnt sound right for texas, maybe cali, but lets see
6 plugs(iridium are $11ea) upper and lower intake gaskets $145. What hose pcv($12)? Or brake booster pipe($60)
alldata labor time is 2.8hours for upper and lower intake gaskets. Add .7 for plugs that are already visable and exposed and multiply that times labor rate.
I know cali is high so lets say $150/hr
3.50x150=$525
parts $285
total $810 plus tax, and shop fees
so there ya go in a nutshell

p0171 & p0174 codes
 

Brutal-

Lots of great information you've shared. I have these codes and replaced the PCV hose and the brake booster hose and the IMT o-rings. I had an issue with the brake booster hose because the connector to the manifold was damaged when removing the old one. Jagbits.com doesn't have the little connector so I need to go to the dealer to see if they have one. You mentioned shrink wrapping the middle of brake booster, do you accomplish this with a heat gun or blow dryer?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Brutal:

Well good news and very bad news! Not a intake air problem is the good news. The bad news it is a brake booster problem.

We dropped the car off at my mechanics Sunday night so that he could start it cold in the morning. It indeed was running rough as usual, but ran fine after a few minutes. His conclusion was that it was losing system vacuum when sitting for a long period.

Well checking the hoses again he noticed that there was some bubble paint on the brake booster underneath the master cylinder. It appears that the master cylinder is leaking and it has probably gotten into the brake booster and damaged the diaphragm.

Knowing that, he again took it for a test drive, and when he would do some quick brake pedals, the pedal would go hard and he would lose most of the braking.

I had notice several times before when I backed out of our garage, which is on a slight hill, that if I pumped the brake to slow it seemed like it was difficult to stop the car. However, under normal driving the brakes seemed to work fine! I guess the vacuum leak is slower than the system building new vacuum while driving.

My mechanic is going to check on parts cost in the morning and call me with the bad news of the cost to repair. Can you give me an idea of what I can expect to pay for this type of repair?

Mikeda

use 1" thick heat shrink and blow drier or heat gun or lighter. I like heat gun though. You have to really work 1" over it but it will go and completely shrink around the smaller lines. Jaguar even used to ship these already heat shrinked for protection

go to Discount Auto Parts Online -- PartsGeek.com - Domestic & Import Auto Parts Warehouse and look them up. labor is probobly about 2 hrs. sorry at home so cant read labor guide

Brutal, I see you are located in Sugarland/Houston. Do you have your own shop? I'm in Houston and my wife's X-Type just failed inspection and these two codes came up. I bought O2 sensors but if that's not the problem, then I'll gladly return them. Such a rookie at car maintenance.