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-   -   P0420 kept coming back (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x-type-x400-14/p0420-kept-coming-back-11218/)

elardizabal 02-16-2009 05:04 PM

P0420 kept coming back
 
P0420 code and p1000 kept coming back, now to a difference of every 100miles.

1. How would I know which O2 sensor to change?
2. is this related to having "cruise not available" in the morning (38C outside) and eventually goes away. This time it did not leave me a misfire code. These codes came out the night before.

My mechanic told me I need to have the ECM reflashed, will this fix the issue?

Sorry, too many questions but hope to hear from your opinions.

Thanks

racerx82 02-17-2009 08:30 PM

This is a bank 1 code (left side I think)
The catalytic converter has an oxygen sensor in front and behind it. When the vehicle is warm and running in closed loop mode, the upstream oxygen sensor waveform reading should fluctuate. The downstream O2 sensor reading should be fairly steady. Typically the P0420 code triggers the Check Engine Light if the readings of the two sensors are similar. This is indicative of (among other things) a converter that is not working as efficiently as it should be (according to specs). It is part of the vehicle emissions system.

So what needs to happen is 1. Test your oxygen sensors and if they pass....you may have a bad cat.

Check to see if Jag has the 100K mile warranty on emission parts before you replace it.

elardizabal 02-17-2009 09:21 PM

are the O2 sensors (upstream/downstream) interchangeable?
How do you test for O2 sensors?
my car is more than 100K so warranty is out if the cat is bad

thanks

Brutal 02-17-2009 09:47 PM

no theyre not interchangeable, between the 2, but the front and rear cat 02 sensors are, if oyu want to waste time. But sorry you need a cat. You could always try an oil fouler9to space spark plugs out from cylinders that burn oil) added into the lower 02 which is what we do on modded hipo cars either with mods that cause issues, or no cat, or cat delete....they space the 02 out of the direct exhaust stream and less sensitive to programmed parameters. I do not know if you can even fit 1 in place because i tend to fix cars not rig broke one and there might not be enough room since they extend the 02 out from the cat. but the ball is in your court now....let us know

elardizabal 02-18-2009 07:33 PM

i checked with dealer on how much a cat is... humungous $$$... i went online and saw magnaflow and other OES brands that are much cheaper... although Im not sure which one is a good fit?? any ideas?

Real_Tech 02-19-2009 07:27 PM

I can't imagine an aftermarket cat that actually fits the X-type being much cheaper than a dealer cat. There are places that rebuild catalytic converters. If you're anywhere near south east michigan try Tested Products, they may have one already rebuilt ready to go or they could rebuild yours with a wait time.

aquill1 02-21-2009 09:20 AM

Any update?

Try finding a salvage yard...

elardizabal 02-21-2009 07:19 PM

no one in MD salvage yard would dare to sell a used, good condition cat converter since its against the law :( ... so before I dole out a chunk of money (that I dont have) to buy new cat, I went back analyzing what's causing it. Since based on my readings, you can change a cat (fouled or totally fried) and will enjoy a good running cat for a while but if the problem causing poor combustion is not fixed then you will have another fouled or fried cat... so what i did was work on ensuring that I have a perfectly running engine of which its what I worked on today:
1. I didnt know that the dealership placed a generic engine oil so I changed it to mobil 1 today. The Jag dealership cant take me in today so I've decided to use Mobil 1 for now since I have to re-seal the oil pan anyway due to some minor oil leaks.
2. I ran another BG 44k, my tank is now more than half empty. There's been a considerable difference in acceleration this time... my injectors must be really dirty since this is my second treatment on a 4 full tank interval... i hope doing a second treatment wont ruin anything.
3. I have reset my check engine light by erasing the codes, i have been running around all day and after 200 miles the light didnt come back. It used to come back after 50miles or after a cold start with "cruise not available" prompt. I didnt have that message today since its only 30F ( i used to get them at this temp, but after all the fixes, only <20F gives me a minor issue but no misfire code)
4. If the light comes back (P0420) I will replace the upstream bank1 O2 sensor. If it still comes ON, then guess what.... TIME FOR NEW CAT... :( (i really hope not)

More updates after Im done consuming the rest of the fuel in my tank....

I still didnt get a feed regarding my thread about ECM reflash if thats even helpful or not.. please tell me about your opinions on these... I really do appreciate it.

aquill1 02-21-2009 09:03 PM

Ever looked on ebay or are companies not allowed to ship?

elardizabal 02-21-2009 09:16 PM

No, i havent tried ebay for new cat...

I just had a talk with thermo (chris) and will try seafoam first before buying anything... I am now looking for a dead spot somewhere in shenandoah or hagerstown MD so I can smoke my a** out without being caught...

suv7734 02-21-2009 11:12 PM


Originally Posted by elardizabal (Post 97454)
I still didnt get a feed regarding my thread about ECM reflash if thats even helpful or not.. please tell me about your opinions on these... I really do appreciate it.

I have the same code being set and had the car into the dealer for service a couple of weeks ago. The 48,000 km service was done, the water pump and oil pan (sump) gasket were replaced under warranty and the J004 upgrade was also done (total $252.55, not bad). Unfortunately within two days the code was back. I haven't had a chance to drop it off again but it should be going in in the next few days. I'll keep you informed of any findings.

elardizabal 02-21-2009 11:24 PM

thanks...

I really am not paying for the fees related to the upgrade, the owner of the dealership made a commitment to pay... i just cant convince them to do the upgrade just that without having to do full diagnostics so the negotiation goes up to dealer:dealership. I hope that they find whats causing your codes to keep coming back so I get to mirror the issue on mine...

elardizabal 02-22-2009 05:38 PM

this is interesting...
since Ive treated my gas tank with BG 44k, the P0420 code never came back (crossing my fingers) now im running on a new fill of tank and 50miles after I still didnt get the code (knocking on wood).. so my guess is that I may have dirty fuel lines including injectors... I will work on doing Thermo's recommendation about running seafoam to clean the system further... will keep you posted..

Jagermeister 02-24-2009 10:25 AM

Hey Guys.

I am troubleshooting a similar P0430 on mine. Mine seems to be getting better also. I am new to the car so I have no idea what the previous owner did or didn't do. Along with doing all of the other preventative maintenance and changes to the car so I can be reassured that what is there is *suppose* to be there - this code has made me learn more then I ever wanted to know about cats and petrol :D

Serioulsy though, you may want to check out this link - of course read with a grain of salt but go to the 2nd paragraph under the heading of 'Catalyst poisoning and deactivation' and take from it what you may.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter

(So with info gathered throughout this forum, this info in the link above and below) I have run a can of BG44K, run the car in 3rd, 4th as appropriate for speed limits - distance 10K to have RPM @ 3000-4500ish. I am now running Sunoco 94 octane up from Premium 91 at Esso and Shell in that order - more specifically for the 'detergency' of the gas I am putting in (see below link and take from it what you may). Finally I am driving her harder on a regular basis than I normally would to keep the Cats at optimum temps. So far the CEL has gone from constant on to 'on and off' with less and decreasing frequency and knock on wood, it has been off for over a week now and is still off.

Some more reading - http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html (Esso is not even listed - damn those esso points! lol)

I am sure that some damage has been done to either the sensor or the cat and one or both will need replacing in the near future - nearer than I would like of course - but if I can extend that time then great! Too bad I have not been able to graph the sensor in real time to get a better idea of what is taking place during this process.

Cheers!

(I should also just note that I have no misfires or leaks or other factors that I can find to make this CEL appear at this point)

------------------------------------------

EDIT: AHHHH BUGGERY - I jinxed it and the CEL came on during the drive home lol - maybe they are just too far gone....*snif*... time will tell.

Jagermeister 12-15-2010 03:46 PM

Still OK almost 2 years later
 
Sorry for reviving a a dead thread but... in light of the topic I wanted to just share a quick update.

After my last post.. the light remained off.

Every once in a while (once or twice every two months?) when it is cold outside (winter cold - nothing in the summer warmth) the CEL light comes on with the code. Last year was really good... this year I figured time for proactive maintenance so I just threw another can in about 3 weeks ago.

Your mileage may very but wanted to provide an update with a real case and history.

Cheers!

Neville Hobbs 01-10-2016 03:16 AM

Thanks for the interesting update
 

Originally Posted by Jagermeister (Post 281743)
Sorry for reviving a a dead thread but... in light of the topic I wanted to just share a quick update.

After my last post.. the light remained off.

Every once in a while (once or twice every two months?) when it is cold outside (winter cold - nothing in the summer warmth) the CEL light comes on with the code. Last year was really good... this year I figured time for proactive maintenance so I just threw another can in about 3 weeks ago.

Your mileage may very but wanted to provide an update with a real case and history.

Cheers!

Brilliant. I will get a can!

ddsand 01-12-2016 01:45 PM

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to thank you all for what you do on this forum. I picked up my 2003 x-type as a christmas gift for my wife. The night i bought it it started throwing a p0420 and p1000 code. I knew there were air leaks and that I needed to replace the IMT and intake manifold Gaskets. I did not know they had ben glued in by a prior mechanic.(Took Videos to Post on Youtube of what not to do to your car)

After changing all of those I still received the codes. I ran a bottle of Cataclean on a full tank of gas. No resolution. I ran a bottle of seafoam and still no resolution. Finally I saw the post from elardizabal about bg 44k and I got a can. Let my gas run down to a little over 1/4 tank and poured it in. After a quick trip up and down the freeway I lost my CEL and have a new love for my x-type. Thanks for your help.

ddsand 01-12-2016 09:55 PM

That was a short romance. My wife drove it to run the kids around and the CEL is back. Another trip to O'reilly's Auto Parts tomorrow to check the codes.

GGG 01-13-2016 05:07 AM

David,

Likely the P0420 is back but P1000 is NOT an error code. It's a status code showing OnBoard Monitoring Tests have not been completed since the last memory clear. You will always see this code or P1111 when the OnBoard Monitoring Tests are complete.

Graham

ddsand 01-13-2016 04:42 PM

Thanks for the moral support. Graham. I just ordered the BlueDriver code reader this morning so I can narrow this down. Would love to know if others have used it and what they think.

ddsand 08-06-2016 11:30 PM

OK, I know this has been a long time in getting to a solution. I am not sure I have one yet, However, I have not replaced the catalytic Converter, nor have I replaced the O2 sensors, However, I am seeing the light come on less frequently. Here is what I have done.

Purchased my 2003 xtype in December and loved it. Then my CEL came on with a P0420 code. I hoped that the cat was not bad and ran some Cataclean through the system, twice. Then I ran a can of BG44K through the system. Still had problems. I ordered two new o2 sensors that are still sitting in their boxes because I could not figure out how to get them in. Too tight of a squeeze between the engine and the firewall.

All this time I have been running premium fuel through the system and seeing minor improvements. Then, the other day I was out in the middle of nowhere and they the only gas station for miles had no premium. I was worried, but decided to use the Higher octane fuel which happened to be ethinol free. After a full tank my CEL light has only come on once or twice. It is shutting off on its own and is more off than on. This is something I have not seen in the last 8 months. I filled up again today with no eth gas and will be watching closely. Only spent 4 cents more per gallon than premium, but if it takes away the check engine light I will be thrilled.

While there my 16 year old boy asked if I really needed to buy the most expensive fuel. I told him yes, beccause it will save me from a much more expensive Catalytic Converter replacement.

Neville Hobbs 08-08-2016 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by ddsand (Post 1511374)
OK, I know this has been a long time in getting to a solution. I am not sure I have one yet, However, I have not replaced the catalytic Converter, nor have I replaced the O2 sensors, However, I am seeing the light come on less frequently. Here is what I have done.

Purchased my 2003 xtype in December and loved it. Then my CEL came on with a P0420 code. I hoped that the cat was not bad and ran some Cataclean through the system, twice. Then I ran a can of BG44K through the system. Still had problems. I ordered two new o2 sensors that are still sitting in their boxes because I could not figure out how to get them in. Too tight of a squeeze between the engine and the firewall.

All this time I have been running premium fuel through the system and seeing minor improvements. Then, the other day I was out in the middle of nowhere and they the only gas station for miles had no premium. I was worried, but decided to use the Higher octane fuel which happened to be ethinol free. After a full tank my CEL light has only come on once or twice. It is shutting off on its own and is more off than on. This is something I have not seen in the last 8 months. I filled up again today with no eth gas and will be watching closely. Only spent 4 cents more per gallon than premium, but if it takes away the check engine light I will be thrilled.

While there my 16 year old boy asked if I really needed to buy the most expensive fuel. I told him yes, because it will save me from a much more expensive Catalytic Converter replacement.

Take a look at my thread on the UK site Code P0430 Catalytic Converter

Once a Catalytic converter block has been destroyed, it wont ever recover. My advice would be to either take no notice of the EML or fit a new Converter. I have learnt that the hard way.

Alfadude 08-08-2016 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by ddsand (Post 1511374)

While there my 16 year old boy asked if I really needed to buy the most expensive fuel. I told him yes, because it will save me from a much more expensive Catalytic Converter replacement.

Sounds like you have an intermittent issue, but if I was you I would still change the O2 sensors. There is plenty of information here on how to do that. The type of gas might have temporarily helped, but you have had this issue for quite awhile. Fix the underlying issue and be done with it. That is what will help best to keep from having to replace your catalytic converters.

ddsand 12-16-2016 10:35 PM

Finally changed both o2 sensors on for the p0420 code and it looks like that was the problem. I guess the downstream sensor was going out. All is well and passed inspection today.

Erick_B 10-04-2018 01:42 AM


Originally Posted by elardizabal (Post 96353)
P0420 code and p1000 kept coming back, now to a difference of every 100miles.

1. How would I know which O2 sensor to change?
2. is this related to having "cruise not available" in the morning (38C outside) and eventually goes away. This time it did not leave me a misfire code. These codes came out the night before.

My mechanic told me I need to have the ECM reflashed, will this fix the issue?

Sorry, too many questions but hope to hear from your opinions.

Thanks

I have a bigger problem same code p0420 but I've replaced both cats and changed all 02 sensors twice still have the code. I took it to 3 shops and they have no clue what to do I think I might have to pay for a dealer diagnostic

ddsand 10-04-2018 08:37 AM

Hi Eric,

I feel your pain. In my case I replaced the Down stream sensor and cleared all the codes. My p0420 code never came back. I have heard some negative about after market cats though. Are your cats OEM. BTW, this code is only for the cat and O2 next to the firewall.

GGG 10-04-2018 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by Erick_B (Post 1970832)
I have a bigger problem same code p0420 but I've replaced both cats and changed all 02 sensors twice still have the code. I took it to 3 shops and they have no clue what to do I think I might have to pay for a dealer diagnostic

From your Intro I thought you have an X350? If so, even though P0420 is also a Cat related issue on that model, posting in a thread in X-Type forum is misleading.

Graham


dennis black 10-04-2018 04:27 PM

did you use oem sensors.....also it could be a gasket leak
mine was a gasket leak ,it never showed its face again

watch this video


Erick_B 10-04-2018 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by ddsand (Post 1970954)
Hi Eric,

I feel your pain. In my case I replaced the Down stream sensor and cleared all the codes. My p0420 code never came back. I have heard some negative about after market cats though. Are your cats OEM. BTW, this code is only for the cat and O2 next to the firewall.

I have a 2007 vanden plas and yea I bought 2 cats from rockauto. You think the car just dosent wanna accept the aftermarket cats? If not I dont feel too bad I only paid $170 per cat. Any ideas on where I can get OEM cats for a reasonable price?

Elegancec 10-25-2018 11:54 AM

Hi, I have similar issues with my XJ6 from 2003:
P0430 comes as current fault and P0420 as pending fault (readen out via torque).
But additionally my fuel trim values do not look nice, something about 9% off. I have checked it for air leaks and sprayed on all manifolds and could not see a change in short trim fuel values, renewed the PCV valve.
The only difference I could see, if the engine is cold it adjusted the short fuel trim to +15% for a short while and than it went down again. long trim values are 5 and 9, but they are different at idle, than the car runs lean and the ecm adjusts more fuel.
I could not hear a broken exhaust manifold.

Ive seen on youtube a test about storage capacity of the cat and will try to do that tomorrow, to check the health of the cat and I will try to do a leak check, which will not be very easy (I don't have a fog machine).
For me it could look like a exhaust leak.
Also an interestint point: If I clear the lamp, it doesn't show up for the next 30 minutes or longer, but if I start the engine in the morning, it is just 10 minutes and it is there and does not go off.

Does anybody have another idea for me, where to search?

ddsand 10-25-2018 12:46 PM

Hi Elegancec,

You may want to check the XJ6 boards since I believe this is under the x-type or (x-400) board. However, I will tell you that if the p0420 is going to be a problem at or before the cat according to a mechanic I spoke with yesterday. Also, your trims will fluctuate on a cold engine. The ECU should take that into consideration and not even start measuring until they stabilize. As for the p0420. I replaced my O2 sensor and that helped for a while. I am now getting occasional codes. I am going to check to see that there is not a leak at the O2 sensor and also that the O2 sensor is still good. I may have bought a defective one. I hope I do not have to replace the Cat since that is a hard one to get to on my car.

Good luck!

Elegancec 10-26-2018 02:40 AM

Hi, this is a screenshot short after prewarming, you can see the red curve is much more oscillating than the green one. When the system is really warm, the red and green curves are much more stable, only the red one fluctuates slightly.
After this, I did the storage test of o2: Feeding propane (in this case I have used brake cleaner) to the engine, so it is saturated and just keeping running. If you turning it off, the yellow and purple curve did not immediately turn back, but I could see it on the red and green curve, the red one jumped down two seconds before the green one, which means it can not store o2. So it looks like, my catalyst has really an issue. Maybe cleaning makes sense but if the active area is gone (Aluminium oxide is used to increase the surface), than I need a new one.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...683092ceb3.png

Elegancec 10-27-2018 03:44 PM

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...247e1053cb.png
Graph withLPG Mode in the midde

Elegancec 10-27-2018 03:48 PM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...3fea2c1df5.png
Perfect from different car 4cyl

Elegancec 10-27-2018 03:49 PM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...696b1a4151.png
Today gasoline

Dell Gailey 10-27-2018 06:44 PM

Once again, this is the X type (x400) forum NOT XJ6........


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