Whole car "vibration" from 55-70mph, need advice where to start...
 

Hello again all!

Just got my Jag back to PA from VA, and need your expert ideas on where to start with some issues that have been plaguing the ride for awhile. Kept telling my family member there was a problem in the suspension, but alas, my cries went unheard.

Now, the car has been siting for a long time, my grandmother who used to own it didn't drive it very much and she has passed, which is why I have it now.

Car 2004 Xtype 3.0 Auto with 33.8k miles, full synthetic, all regular maintenance records and more done.

Issues:
Whole car "vibration" at speeds from 50-70mph, worse being around 55. Smooth as butter under 50.
-Inflated all tires to 35PSI on 225-45-R17
-Freshly balanced and rotated.
-Tires look brand new
-Tire tech said they have some "out of round condition" but nothing outside of factory spec.
-Wheels not bent (AFAIK)
-Edit to add: Cramed my 6'2 butt under the car to check the possible missing drive shaft bolts. All bolts appear hand tight, and accounted for. VERY minor surface rust.

"Knock" when turning wheels hard right to left, left to right etc.., Like an "empty" popping sound / the sound it makes when you run over reflectors paved into the road.
-Can hear this sound when going over bumps, want to say it sounds like it coming from all 4 corners of the car.
-Not sure where to even start, maybe both issues are related.

I did just make a 400 mile trip in 1 shot with 0 "Im scared to drive this issues" only those listed above, and the stupid gas cap throwing CEL like its in style. ha....

-Possible issues: Brakes- Looking through her records, the Jag techs recommended new brakes and rotors in all 4 corners, but my gma told them to "get lost" on that because she said the car should need new brakes and rotors with 33k miles. Had the tires tech check out them out while balanced the tires for the trip, and he said they looked fine, however the rotors had a "slight" lip. Brakes feel solid, slightly touchy, but Im comming from a '13 Kia Optima EX, so Im not even sure how a used cars should feel.

So guys, Im asking for some help on where to start looking, and what you might recommend I have a shop look at to get those issues fixed.

Again, the car is like new, under the hood and under the car itself. Been garage kept for 10years lol.

Call around your area dealer, tire shops, see if they can do a Road Force Balance of the wheel and tire assemblies. It's different than just a wheel balance.

Ill see about getting that done today and report back. Any ideas where to start with the knocking noise?

It sound like a balance issue. I'm thinking the same as the GateKeeper, Get a tech to drive it. 50-80 my baby cat is super smooth.

Good luck

Could be tire balancing, but I have the same issue, and, after extensive testing, it has been determined to be the driveshaft.

If tire balancing doesn't help (it sure didn't for me) you can start by indexing your driveshaft. This procedure can be a free DIY project if you have jackstands, allen wrenches, and a little mechanical know-how. Google it.

If indexing doesn't help, you'll need to replace the driveshaft all together. This is about a $1000 job if the dealer does it. Or you can do it yourself for the cost of a refurbished driveshaft and replacement gaskets... about $500.

I went bass-ackwards and replaced the driveshaft first, saw some improvement in the vibrations, and then indexed it to smooth it out further.

It's still not perfect, but it's livable, at least until I buy my next car, either an XE-S or a 335i. The car rides smooth as butter up until about 55mph. Then the vibrations begin. They strengthen until about 65-70 and taper off after 75. At 80mph you can no longer feel the vibrations, as they've settled down to the point where they are lost in the road noise/feel.

Happy hunting.

Start with getting the tires balanced and as they are doing that, have them do a "runout check" on the rims. This will check to see if you have any bent rims. Odds are you will find out one or more bent.

If you are looking at doing brakes, let me know. I can tell you a lot about them as I have done a lot to the braking system on the x-type.

In general, letting a car sit for long periods of time can cause many problems; see this article:
http://jerseycash4cars.com/articles/...r_Problems.pdf
Even though the "out-of-round" tires were in spec, it may be enough to cause some of the vibration issues. If the tires are original, you should seriously consider replacing them even though they may look good. Also, dried out seals may cause problems in a multitude of areas on the car. But, given the mileage on your car and its condition, it's well worth the effort to fix it!

Thanks alot for all the advice so far! The shop near me couldn't fit me in today so it will have to wait till tomorrow. Any ideas on what to check for the "knocking" sounds?

For a side project while she is sitting, I tried to install a regular battery I had left over from my jeep today (XS Power D6500) and the foking terminals are on the wrong side of the car connections! WTF! Lol... Not even sure where to start with this... I will find a way to use this battery, way to expensive for it to collect dust.

I did get a 0 gauge power wire ran, and my amp hooked up (Not connected to battery yet) Damn box I had left over wouldnt fit in the trunk.

All and all, failure day for getting something meaningful accomplished. Oh well....

vibration
 

Hey. I'm in pa. It sounds to me like your prop shaft bearing. I have a good used one I would be happy to help install for you if your not to far. Also give you a great price for the part as well. Pm me and we can talk. The shaft bearings are known to act up. I have changed 3 of them out.

Good Luck,
The Dr!

Well, got it inspected/emissioned today. Barely passed, needs rear brake and rotors in the future.

Bad news is: I got duped on the road force balancing, just got another regular balance. Dropped car off with no CEL yet picked it up with it on. Stomped it on the way home to try and get to 55, and she started jerking after downshifting.

Did a little reading and will check vacuum lines tomorrow and grab a bottle of injector cleaner and see if that helps. Any specific kind/brands for these cars?

Also gonna get my code reader and try to get some codes. Hopefully were working with an OBD2.

I'll check back in soon!

I'll get you guys some pics on the next post :)

How did you get "duped" on the Road Force balance? Do you understand what this balance service is supposed to include?

Did they do the balance on a genuine Hunter Road Force Balance brand machine?

Did they dismount the tires and check the run-out on the rims? Did they check the "road force" on the tires mounted to the rims?

Did they index the tires to the wheels so any high spots in the rims corresponded to the low spots in the tires?

Did they put the weights EXACTLY where the machine told them to? Inboard, outboard or center of the rim?

Did they give you a print out from the Hunter machine with the values for road force, run-out and balance weight for each wheel?

If they didn't use a real Hunter machine and do all of the above, then you did get "duped."

FWIW, I usually have to take my XJR back to Goodyear two or three times to get the balance done correctly. XJR's do not tolerate any out of balance issues, no matter how small. The job must be done by a tech who knows how to use the machine and is willing to do all the procedures listed above, otherwise you don't get the full benefit of the Hunter technology.

I bought the "lifetime" Hunter balance deal at Goodyear for $25 per wheel and it has solved all the vibration issues with my XJR. I did have to replace two "bent" rims that were out of spec and could not be balanced.

Vector

I'm not sure on most because I didn't watch, can be almost sure they didn't check the run out, and they didn't give me a print out like most shops do/have done for me over the years.

I say duped because I made sure to ask when I dropped off the car about having these things done/checked and when I picked it up, the new guys there said they didn't even have one....

You didn't say where in Pa. you're located. If near Pittsburgh, Baierl Cadillac (Wexford area) has a road force balancer, and they know how to use it. You should still get this checked to rule out any tire, wheel problems.

If they don't have a Hunter machine then all you got was a regular balance job, which, based on my experience, is not accurate enough to properly diagnose and balance the wheels and tires on our Jags.

Go get a true Hunter Road Force balance done at a reputable shop and tell them all that you expect them to do. Print my post above and take it with you if you need to.

I can't suggest this course of action strongly enough. Lots of members here have had their vibration issues cured by the Hunter machine. Anything less is stone age technology.

You can "balance" a football on a conventional machine, but it won't spin true. Hunter checks for out of round conditions, bent wheels, run out, and the "road force" the tire exhibits when it is spinning.

Otherwise you may be throwing money at other "problem" areas that don't need attention.

3 shops "balanced" the wheels/tires on my XJR before I finally took it to a shop that had the Hunter machine, even then, it takes an experienced, committed tech to do the work to get the most out of the technology.
Vector

Agree completely with Vectors' post above. I've used the Hunter machine, excellent piece of equipment if used properly.

Update: Looked up the Hunter Machine website for shops that had it. Found one close, dropped it off for the RFB/Runout.

Got a call about 45m later, the vibration is coming from the drive line and not the wheels. They were sure, and the wheel were in good shape... Called Jag about a new driveshaft/bearing... 1300 bucks for part and mic parts. I know the Dr. offered a used one, but it being Xmas and all, I cant afford to do it atm :( Anything else to look at other the driveshaft/bearing?

Pulled the codes in the parking lot: P0174,P1638,P1699,P1111 which I need to research further.
Did some quick reading:
P1111= Everything is OK
P1638= ECM/ Instrument cluster/ Communication problem- I dont know what this means though... I was down under there running a wire, well cramming a wire through the main loom through the firewall, but I didnt cut anything or even remove the grommet. I simply wedged the grommet open, used a lead wire to pull the main wire through right next to the bung. I have done this many times, and I doubt I messed anything up. I will continue to moniter for this code to reappear incase I did somehow damage a wire in the bung... god I hope I didnt....
P1699= From me trying to move the gear selector without the HVAC plugged in when installing the radio. Opps.
P0174: System too lean, Bank 2- Need to read more on this.

Ima just guess the knocking while turning is a ball joint, just not sure how to spot/trouble shoot a bad one, from a good one.... Any tips?

Cleared them though, which stopped the jerking on hard accel, but Im not sure if the car being warm or clearing the codes actually did it.

Sigh, and the money pit begins. Hard to understand how this could go bad with only 34k on the clock and garage kept its whole life.

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Sorry it was raining....

The popping sound and vibration issues may be related - it could be a possible CV joint problem. This article may be useful to you:
Determining the Causes of Vehicle Vibrations - Eric The Car Guy- Stay Dirty!

I agree with Thermo and Vector on the bent rim possibility. I had my wheels balanced, tracked, tyres changed and still had the vibration between 50 and 70 MPH, one morning I went out and saw I had a flat, after pumping the tyre, drove for a day and it was flat again, long story short, I had the tyre and wheel checked and a tiny crack was found in the rim, the guy who soldered it for me realized that the rim was ever so slightly bent out of shape and fixed it along with the crack.
Since the repair I have had no vibration issues, it would be worth getting the rims checked out as sometimes the slightest bend/dent can make a great difference. Maybe if you could borrow a known good wheel for a few days and alternate it around the car, that way you could eliminate the possibility of a duff rim?

Well, I work up this morning and came to the realization that even though the car was well kept, low mileage, and the likes... It has some issues. Some maybe big issues, costly issues.... but the information is out there on how to fix everything "at home".... which gives me hope.

Luckily I married into a gear head family, who have the place / tools / and likes to start and get this ride where she needs to be. It will not be a quick journey, and I need to get their permission to park the ride there and do all of this. Without that, sadly, I cannot keep her. For now, she will sit till I can figure out a path....

Wanted to give a big thanks to everybody here for their time and knowledge so far.

So far, with just having got the car bake to PA 3-5 days ago, it needs:
Unknown suspension knocking
4 Corners worth of brakes/rotors
Still unknown highway vibration
Headliner

Just not sure if this is a journey I can afford to take.... Haven't even got the car up on jacks yet to look myself (Stupid PA rain) to see what's going on underneath...