Possible source for metal version of rear coolant crossover pipe for 3.0 SC
 

I was looking around for a PCY diaphragm and cover and I found this part from the same provider. Might be a promising solution to those failures of the plastic pipes. Thought folks would like to know.

RKX Upgraded Rear Metal Coolant Crossover Heater Pipe

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/l8YAA...xP/s-l1600.jpg

Thanks a lot for posting that!
Won't help me as it's for the V-6 but it's a step in the right direction and I can only hope they someday release the 5.0 version.
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For the 3.0ltr SC V-6 Two piece screwed together. Wonder how it is sealed!
The top piece is the same for both, the V6 & the V8 so they just have to make a lower casting shorter, and on a two bolt flange. Had a quick look at Aliexpress, and they are not showing up there yet.

Good find.

Good question!
From the pics I can't see any gasket or sealant between the two halves, then again my eyesight is crap.

https://www.rkxtech.com/products/rkx...and-rover-3-0l


For USD250, not that keen on the cross head screws keeping it together.
But worth keeping an eye on.

With proper mating surfaces, sealant and Loctite on the fixing screws this could work out OK....It all depends on how well they assemble it.
Having looked into scanning and 3D printing the things in one piece ( insanely expensive) this may be our only chance at a metal one, but I really think a full redesign that eliminates the joint is the only real hope of a permanent fix.Might have to buy one of these and tinker with it just to satisfy my curiosity!

Figures... I just bolted in the replacement on my 5.0 yesterday.

Wonderful! Thank you for sharing. Naturally since this looks like a new offering, there's not going to be alot of feedback, but this is very promising.

I agree that if the mating surfaces are machined well, RTV and loctite will be fine. It will certainly be better then the plastic xover always leaking at the seams.

So far only this V6 version is available so no good for you anyway.
But a 5.0 V8 version can't be too far away!

Let's just say I have been told by a reliable source that the 5.0L SC version is already in the works BUT no date for production yet!
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This is awesome! adding it to my collection of un-installed metal parts for my Sportbrake. FWIW this company is great - I have purchased multiples of their PCV kits for VW/Audi cars, and the pct diaphragm for the Sportbrake as well.

Thanks for posting this

More affordable from our chums in China. Purchased one for the spares shelf. Will still be keep an eye open for the AJ133 type coming out.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...8daKuHiBl&mp=1


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...6c48f69f3b.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...07ad1112f3.png

Warning This Pipe Could Seriously damage your Engine & Wallet.
 

Delivered, and Inspected.

So this beauty arrived Yesterday. Looked Good.

Did some basic tests, Blow through the various orifices, as is my want.

Fail, Big Time?

Finding.

The Left hand (LH) Leg to the manifold header would appear to be completely blocked.
The Right hand (RH) would appear to be OK. Air passed through the leg.

LH leg ,Gave it a Poke with a screw driver, and flushed it through with a water hose, No joy.

Contacted the vender on Ali Express, had a brief chat with a BOT, and here we are.

Vendor, "Guangzhou leading luxury car accessories Store" they are just the seller not the manufacturer.

"这个没有压力他过不去的吧，而且凸的位置有传感器进行关闭之类的"
"He can't get through this without pressure, and the convex position is closed by sensors and so on."

So basically BS.


My Investigation.

Determining why there is no flow of air, (wind puff) or water coming from the LH leg to the manifold?

I always wanted to open it up to see how it was but together and this gave me a good enough reason and opportunity.

14 off x M4 x 10mm Long, counter sunk crosshead screws removed and the two half sections pried apart. To reveal a flat flanged surface and a thin bead of silicon sealant.
This also pulled off the chrome plating in some areas of the flanged surfaces.

Reviewing the internals of the manifold heads all seemed good.

However the leg of the LH side was blocked solid, after poking and turning repeatedly with sufficient force with a screwdriver.
It was totally blocked near the vertical flange of pipe to header manifold.

Out with the power drill, and drill bit of suitable length 155mm and Dia. 10mm

I forced through a drilled hole between the LH leg and the manifold header.

I then had a look at the other flow passaged on the RH leg.

Right hand leg and the Heater feed.

The RH leg had Noticeable Chrome flashing restricting the the Leg outlet to the manifold header at the connection between the two.
The throttle body heater feed pipe less so.

This was chipped away with a screw driver, and the hole drilled out, round to 10mm.



https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...c23e9117b.jpeg
Some swarf removed from the LH & RH legs for access to the header.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...11e660307.jpeg
The outlet header pipe with part restriction of outlet from header.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...e520b9b6a.jpeg
RH leg vertical flange original restriction.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...0c5cad1a4.jpeg
RH leg vertical flange partly cleared restriction.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...32e9328c5.jpeg
RH leg look down from the header manifold into the RH leg pipe. Just can just see the edge of the chrome flashing.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ca94b56a5.jpeg
LH leg drilled through with 10mm drill to the manifold header.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...1a3cc962a.jpeg
RH leg drilled through to Manifold. 10mm

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...cf2c7a2ee.jpeg
RH leg restriction.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...3e19e54af.jpeg



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ab5d3cbca.jpeg
Swarf removed from RH & LH legs after drilling.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...bf92f93ef.jpeg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ae1ada490.jpeg
Upper and lower manifold casting half, chrome plating peeling on removal.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...bc8a70c34.jpeg
RH leg with Chrome flashing? obstructing the flow path.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...a41769908.jpeg
Manifold casting marks, this symbol on the upper casting, and embossed, XF 23/07 ON THE LOWER casting


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...cfc578f65.jpeg
Manifold On arrival.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...8e880765d.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...cc7e75d5f.jpeg




https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...6f78c123c3.jpg
10mm x 150mm drill bit trying to track through to the manifold header. Totally blocked, near vertical flange.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b7e443db7f.jpg
The scarf from drilling out LH leg hole.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...d24f7a1fcc.jpg
The upper and lower manifold split. Flat faced joints with a smear of silicon adhesive. Copper showing from where the chrome plating has lifted.


Summary.

The blocked LH leg on the manifold pipe would have prevented any water flow from the LH cylinder bank.
The restricted RH leg outlet would have restricted CW flow.
The outlet pipe was partly restricted.
The QA of the manufacture, was, / is non existent.

The narrow section of LH/RH leg pipe to the manifold header would appear to be less than Dia 10mm, and blocked/ restricted with Chrome flashing on all ports to some extent.

I would highly recommend anyone purchasing an Alloy rear heater manifold pipe , from any supplier, test it fully and confirm water flow from/ to each orifice.
Prodding with a 10mm drill or rod of suitable length 155mm to proved open and unblocked.

( Why 10mm?? The original header manifold pipe and the new plastic spare(copy) were measured and both found to be 10mm internally to the manifold. The pipe Inlet is 13mm dia. from the cylinder head outlet.


Is it safe to use?

Not without inspection and testing before fitting.
Well it is strong, and if you ensure the ports are opened to the correct size and unblocked /restricted.
Then it should last longer than the plastic rear manifold header.

Well you re-engineered the whole thing so it now works!
I am sure the rest of us will be doing the same thing so thanks much for the detailed instructions.

This reminds me of what I was told about Harbor Freight and all their cheap Chinese tools? You get approximately an 80% working tool and the end user will need to fix the other 20% before you can actually use it!
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Excellent write up and my hat's off to you, sir.I have been wanting to do this myself. For what it's worth, this thing is really not much better for the long haul than the original part.The lack of a real internal sealing ring means it can heat cycle and begin to weep at the seam just like the plastic part.Might take a bit longer, but it will happen.

With some effort a hi temp resistant silicone rubber "O ring" could be made up to fit a channel machined into the flange of the two halves that would form a better seal but it's a whole new ballgame to do that and the makers obviously didn't want to go that far.

My inclination would be to file a small V groove through the crappy plating at the edges and wire weld the parts together, that's really the only way we'll get a "solid" pipe that has no Achilles heel at the seam.

Paul Fisher;2677407]

For what it's worth, this thing is really not much better for the long haul than the original part.The lack of a real internal sealing ring means it can heat cycle and begin to weep at the seam just like the plastic part.Might take a bit longer, but it will happen.

I have to disagree with you there. The Alloy is different from Plastic and those thermal properties.
The flanged flat matting surfaces are securely screwed together, and sealed / bonded with a Silicon type adhesive.
Giving a better stronger, in material and mechanically, and flat sealing surface between the two casting.


With some effort a hi temp resistant silicone rubber "O ring" could be made up to fit a channel machined into the flange of the two halves that would form a better seal but it's a whole new ballgame to do that and the makers obviously didn't want to go that far.

That was what I was secretly hoping for, this gave me the opportunity to find out. I use the word opportunity grudgingly.
If it were to be redesigned with longevity in mind, then this recessed O ring seal and screwed flanges would have been the way to go.
However it was designed to a lifetime (Just out of warrantee) and at a price point. Material of manufacture Plastic, glued, hot pressed together. With the resulting consequences.


My inclination would be to file a small V groove through the crappy plating at the edges and wire weld the parts together, that's really the only way we'll get a "solid" pipe that has no Achilles heel at the seam.

Depends on how good your Alloy seal welding is.

Our chums in China have made a 90%/95% cheap and some may say better Rear CW header pipe. Which removes the heat cycle seam failure.
By basically copying the original, adding flanges for the screw holes and changing the material.

The seam seal will always be the wear point, but should last the life of the vehicle, and far out live the manufactures warrantee.

If you know you are getting an enhanced copy which has some Chinese idiosyncratics, like No QA. You just have to find and correct them.

I have a new rear pipe from RKX which looks identical to the one shown in the postings above EXCEPT that 1) there is a written M or W on the pipe:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b663e0572f.jpg

and 2) an RKX sticker - both of which suggest to me that the pipe has been checked and passed inspection.

This morning, having read and been concerned about the warning about swarf and blockage in the pipe, I thoroughly blew, flushed, and poked (jokes welcome but not necessary). No swarf found at all and there was full flow of both air and water (at low tap pressure, so at the much higher flow pressure in engine use there should be no issue at all):

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...2d985014b0.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...427eb3cacb.jpg



https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...82bb0a76ca.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...1842c15eab.jpg

So, I am confident that RKX, before shipping the pipe, has done its "due diligence" and verified that the pipe is clear and fit for action - given the lack of the RKX sticker and of the written mark/initial on the pipe examined and tested by bydad, he may have had an unchecked item from a different supplier (?).

Gregory,

Did you read my post? All of it??

The swarf removed was from my drilling out of the blockage(s), restriction by chrome flashing at All the pipe connections and to enlarge the leg bore pipe size to that of the original JLR pipe.
I stated the supplier purchased from.
Felt tip marks and sticker on a casting mean nothing IMHO.
Blockage in one pipe leg and with chrome flashing at all orifices causing restriction to flow would cause concern to me as I have shown.
If your happy with your tests and inspection, enjoy.


Manufactured in China, of which there may be more than one.
Suppliers of which I am sure there will be hundreds.

The manufactures mark.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...50866e286.jpeg
Manufactures casting mark

Yes, I did read your posting (several times) and I understand perfectly that you needed to drill out the swarf/chrome flashing and obstruction that you found.
It was precisely because of your experience that I examined and tested the unit I bought from RKX. I found no blockage, and no excess flashing. As you could see from my photos, there was clear water flow through the piping (the flow was from a kitchen tap at low volume). There was no swarf and no flashing to be seen or found or felt in any of the orifices, absolutely nothing of the sort you show in your photos, and no blockage of flow. I am not in any way questioning your findings.

The unit I have displays (along with the check initial and RKX sticker) the same casting mark as on your unit. Yes, my supplier was different than yours but the unit itself seems to be the same in every way - everything except for the flashing defects and blockage you found on your unit. My testing revealed no blockage either of water nor of breath from any of the orifices. My point was simply that the unit supplied by RKX seems to have been checked (the written initial) and passed (the sticker), and my own inspection and testing supports their apparent quality control.

No sure what you intended by “If your (sic) happy with your tests and inspection, enjoy”, but it comes across as unnecessarily demeaning and dismissive.

Gregory,

If it came across as such, I do apology. I am not a Native North American speaker.

A Couple of points, which I hope will help. Just incase there are any other North American types out there in some confusion with my explanations.

"I understand perfectly that you needed to drill out the swarf/chrome flashing and obstruction that you found."

I made the swarf, in drilling out the pipe Legs (LH/RH) to the correct size, as checked with the JLR original pipe, The flashing from the chrome plating. I would suggest was blocking the opening completely on the LH leg and thin. But not that thin I could penetrate with reasonable force with a screw driver.

I drilled out the 12mm and 5 mm Main Outlet and heater header outlet to the throttle body. To clean out these outlets of chrome flashing restrictions.

All the ports, orifices had Chrome flashing restricting of the opening to some extent. RH leg, Outlet, and Throttle body heater outlet.

I understand fully, that you did NOT detected any flashings, thou not clear you checked leg diameter into the header.

I wished to convey, had you checked all I had stated in may post, and that were you happy with your function tests.


(along with the check initial and RKX sticker)

I am not sure, and have no confirmation from you that a felt tipped mark of a W or M ( which are not Chinese characters so far as I know) and sticker RKX equates to

"RKX seems to have been checked (the written initial) and passed (the sticker), and my own inspection and testing supports their apparent quality control."

Without confirming with them. I say again, I have no issue with RKX and have heard favourable comments on this forum regarding their supplied products.

I happen to be commenting on what I found from the header pipe manufacturer, and a Local Cheap Chinese supplier, to the forum in general so they are at least aware to check before fitting.



If your (sic) happy with your tests and inspection, enjoy”, but it comes across as unnecessarily demeaning and dismissive.


To translate, it means: If you are happy with the tests you have done after reading my post, and perhaps not giving fully the feed back that you have completed all the checks. Then all is good.

This is not meant to be demeaning and or dismissive but entirely your choice as too how far you want or need to go or do.

You have many Jaguar's, and you know their many issues past and present. So lets not fall out over this.

This is a Jaguar car forum to Help all owners. Even LR owners.