Soooo..... yeah.

Actually have to say, this is my second Jaguar (first was a 2008 non SC XF that was totaled when a lady hit me) and up to this point have been pretty happy with the company as a whole.

Bought a used 2011 XFR with about 30,000 miles on it at the end of 2014.

I use the car as a daily driver and beat the living crap out of the cars I drive and drive A LOT, mostly for work purposes. Maintain them perfectly, I just drive them pretty hard.

Right now the car has 144,000 miles on it and up to this point I am surprised and happy to report that I really haven't had any major problems with the car. Been super fun to drive, been a great looker and I have loved every bit of it.

Buuuut, got the engine rattle last week, after doing my own looking into (was a mechanic back in high school in the "Fast N the Furious days!" with a twin turbo 3000GT that I have built and rebuilt three times now.) have been pretty surprised by what I am hearing. So basically Jaguar is just building engines that are disposable? From the sound of it all car companies are? Is it this pathetically true?

Not surprised that it is time for the engine to go, what I am surprised by is that Jaguar (all car companies?) appears to not want you to be able to repair these cars anymore.

I took it in to Jaguar and said "Whelp, looks like my engine is about to go, what are my options?" They took it in and looked at it and agree, one of the bearings is about to go, "chamleon metal" flakes in oil, rattling sound, etc.

To be honest, I really don't like any new cars on the road and putting a new motor in my XFR for another 75k-100k miles would be fine by me! Love the car and hate that the new XF's are V-6 little mini "things". This was also a fact I didn't know until I took a walk with a sales guy on the showroom floor. When he said, "Nope, no more 8 cyllinder XF's" I had the most confused and upset look on my face ever, so sad.....

So far I have found it pretty much impossible to rebuild this motor and Jaguar wants like $28,000 to put a new one in it. Frustrated me very badly as I told the guy that I was sorry, but I didn't like any of the new Jaguar's (have to have a 4 door for work purposes or I would get the F-Pace).

So after looking at the forum, this seems to be a pretty typical thing going on. Including a very long thread where someone is trying to rebuild his own motor and it is a "big deal". Really? Is that what modern cars are now?

Guess this is a little bit of a vent thread and a little bit of a "What would you guys do now?" thread....

I paid for the car in cash, so I don't owe anything on it.

Jaguar said with the problem they would not buy it back and I will NOT sell it privately without saying what the problems are. I make plenty of money and my ethics won't allow that.

BUT, I am not so lazy as to not try to get the best dollar out of my options. Here are the options I have seen so far...

a) Sell the car as is privately with the problems for maybe $3-6k (haven't looked into, but figure should be able to find a guy who parts things will to pay around that price)

b) Take the car apart and part it out, myself. Probably the highest value option, but .... yikes, not sure if I want to take the time to do that with my quickly growing business, my time is precious.

c) I did find a guy here in SoCal that claims to be "The only person doing 5.0 SC rebuilds" in America", not sure if true but whatever. Talked to him on the phone and he sounded like an awesome guy, going to take it in Monday and he said it could be anywhere from $8k-18k (ish) for the rebuild. A lot of this will depend on what he says then.

d) Just be done with Jaguar and buy a new car .... but which one? The only other car (has to be 4 door and have up to around $90k to spend) I TRULY love more than my XFR is the Audi RS7. It is (barely) within my price range, but it would be extending myself a bit to do so. Anyone driven these or have any experience with them? I have never owned an Audi....

I have to be honest, after being a Jaguar owner for the last 9 or so years, it would be a sad change ..... but the best car is the best car (a personal opinion of course) and I am not loyal to any company to a fault.

So figured I would shoot the ish with the forum and see what you guys thought.

Happy Holidays!

 

I don't see the more logical option which is to buy a used engine from a wreck and have it installed by a competent independent.

It doesn't make sense to rebuild an engine these days unless the car is a collectible and the original engine is needed to hold the value.

The big problem with rebuilds is that the competency is very low in the market to do it right, whether or not you can get the parts. A factory built used engine will be much better option.

 

 

Have you looked yourself?

The "lowest mileage" engine I can find online has 70-80k miles on it. That kinda seem like a non starter to me...

**EDIT*** found one that has 50k miles on it, still seems like a bad idea....

 

Love to do it though! This literally just happened to me this morning, if anyone can find this post for me! Love to do that

 

They still sell the supercharged V8 in the XJ. Or why not buy a used XFR to replace yours?

 

I doubt it's going to be economical to put $10k+ into a replacement engine in a 2011 XFR even if you can find a lightly used one - which as you say is hard

I'd say sell it to someone who is game to to the rebuild/replacement. And with the money you are looking to spend get an XJ V8 SC
Or find an XF RS

 

I agree the used engine seems the most practical solution if the rest of the car is still in great condition. Ultra-low mile donor may not be readily available, but 50-70K is less than half of what you put on the original. AND if I were doing it, I wouldn't just yank it out of the wrecked car and install it as-is. While I had the donor engine out, I'd replace all the gaskets, seals, chain guides, tensioners, cooling system plastic parts and as many other wear items as possible. Then you'd be well ahead, maybe even better than if you'd found a 30K mile donor.

 

As someone who's chosen to rebuild my 5.0 SC engine, I struggled to find a used engine under $13k, mostly with mileage of at least 80k and then you have to factor in the costs of not only fitting it, but also all the things you'd be mad not to change when doing so. Oil pump's a given, timing gear - given the problems suffered by the 2010-2012 engines with wearing timing chain guides, you'd want to replace at least the chains, guides, and tensioners while it was out if you picked up a used engine of this vintage (and depending on mileage, even newer ones). The costs quickly add up, and even with the delays my rebuild has suffered (mostly of my doing) I'm already able to fit uprated bolts, pistons, bearings, as well as complete new HP fuel pumps, pipes, timing gear, seals etc and still come in well under the cost of a replacement (used) engine, which usually comes with a short (if any) warranty, often no history and no guarantee at all of how the engine's been treated beyond "Hey man, it ran when we took it out".

Not saying either option is right or wrong, as I think there are many factors in each person's situation but thought I'd give my take on the rebuild vs replace.

To the OP: I'm interested to know:
- You mentioned particles in the oil - did you measure the amount of oil drained out? Interested to know if it was quite low
- Whether you had a timing chain rattle, especially on idle, as descrbed

 

Yeah, this is most likely what I am going to do. People who are saying "Just go pick up a used engine" or "Put an XJ motor in it" Have obviously never been through such an endeavor.

Pretty ridiculous that these are throw away cars now.

Definitely will not be buying another Jaguar, shame too after owning two of them

 

No, you are absolutely correct and it is nice to see you put so much effort int to. It actually shows people what the "deal" is with trying to simply swap out a new motor.

In my old mechanic days, using a cherry picker to drop in a new short/long wasn't a HORRIBLE job, but with these cars everyone I have talked to on the phone has pretty much laughed at me.

Going to go test drive a f10 M5 with 10,000 miles and am RS7 with 17,000 miles this weekend.

As much as I like the styling of my XF, the new XF motors are just so pathetically weak. I still can't believe that there are no V8 motor options and basically no XFR's anymore, very disappointed with Jaguar at this point. I will be owning luxery sedans most likely for the rest of my life (am only 35 right now) and after the way I have been talked to, discovering what these cars are like to work on and everything else, I will not come back to Jaguar.

Now it will just be, who can I find that wants to buy the car to part it out and how much will they give me for it.

If I can get over $5,000 I would be ecstatic just to be done with this car and get back into something with a warranty. Yes, the car is besides that in very good condition, had the front half repainted two years ago and there are maybe 2 scratches on it, oh and a blown speaker in the back, but meh.

Whole situation has left me very frustrated, but at least I will soon have a new car and a faster one to boot!

The M5 and the RS7 are both almost a full second faster in the quarter, the RS7 I think looks better, the M5, meh not so much. It is a little plain but oh well, I simply don't like any of the other cars in the Luxury Sports Sedan market.

Thx for the input all, but those of you saying "buy a new motor" Jaguar wants almost $30k for it. "Buy a used motor" the lowest mileage you can find is 50-60k, and they still want near $10k. Then add the poster above's information and it is most likely another $10k to install and for superfluous parts. To put a used engine in this car would be over $20k, that is a huge waste.

All when I have a 2015 black M5 (almost a full second faster than my XFR with "chip") for $60k with only 10-15,000 miles on it. Uh, yeah, economically that is not even close to a decision.

 

Sorry, forgot to answer your questions.

When I first hear the "rattle" it was due for its 140k service and they said it was down 3 quarts of oil with shavings.

I just drove the car another 3-4,000 miles and wanted to make sure to get another oil change quickly.

This one was down about a half a quart after (just looked it up) exactly 3,800 miles, so not bleeding TOO MUCH oil, but there were definitely shavings in the oil and I think the "rattle" seems to be getting a little worse. Perhaps that is just me being paranoid and pissed off, but we'll see.

When you first start the car, there is no "rattle" at all. Then after a minute or so, it starts up. I hear it much less when the motor is running at 3-5k RPMS's so it very well may be what you are talking about. Jaguar Service demanded $2,000 just to open it up and find exactly what was wrong. But with the oil shavings it was obvious that the engine would need replacing. I told then to **** off and give me the car, I would figure it out.

Company has been doing VERY well so I don't mind getting another car payment.

Now I am kinda debating if I can wait until March when the f90 M5's come out in the US. Those are actually pretty beautiful, I'd say a tie with the XFR and MUCH faster. Thing runs almost an 11 flat out of the box!

Too bad they are mostly going to have the price jacked up on the new ones so badly that it is going to be 40k over sticker.....

With that in mind, any guesses on how long my XFR is driveable until it dies?

I know that is an impossible question to ask, just wondering if I could put another 5,000 or so miles on it or if I should try to dump it now.

 

Cars being test driven this weekend include:

Audi RS7
BMW M5
Merc E63 AMGS
Caddi CTS-V
Merc CLS63 AMGS

Hopefully I like one of them, going to be weird not being behind a jaguar symbol!

 

Far be it from us Jaguar enthusiasts to talk you into scrapping your car. Remember, our job here is talk you into "saving" a Jaguar.

 

Although if he doesn't, I'd love the seats from his XFR. Just saying.

 

Wow, sounds very much like my situation with this engine too.

I really have no idea, but personally I'm of the opinion that metal shavings in the oil is usually pretty catastrophic. With my engine it was the evidence of 2x spun conrod bearings - but if you'd spun bearings I would be expecting more of a knock than just a rattle. Are you able to narrow down where the noise is coming from? I posted a video clip I found of my car when it was running, and the timing noise is very apparent as the video fades out.

 

If a low miles used engine is hard to find, go with option (a) and walk away.

Throwing time and money at it isn't going to significantly increase the residual value and you could easily end up losing.

Graham

 

I have found undamaged perfectly working XFR which was scrapped because documentation. of course i bought all internal seats, door trims, air inlets with R badge, engine was 70 000miles. FULL engine absilutely completed with gearbox atached , chargers- just plug'n'play was 4300EUR. strip gearbox, chargers, generators, starters, ignition coils , heads ets and you will come to 2000EUR. instalation of engine 350EUR.


I passed ability to instal in my 4.2SC 5.0 engine(i could buy all the needed bits- whioel diferential witing looms, engine ecu etc) beacause those engineses needs to be very well maintained, and not as durable and robust as 4.2SC. I have driver some 4.2 at maximum rpm and 260km/h speed with only 1/4th of oil, with also overheated messasges. more ever one of car with 175 000miles had wrong gearbox with wrong TCM installed. after install they started COLD engine and cars RMP started increase INFINETELY ( rev limiter didnt worked probably because wrong TCM engine ecu mix- a bug) no damage to COLD engine with 7000+ RPM.

all cars I know with 4.2SC is absolutely robusts except broken hoses or vacums. reading forums seems 5.0 is real step down in terms of endurance.
friend of mine have tuned XFR (695HP) with 170 000miles no problems, but i think its more exception than rule.


to sumarize- if you love you can bring your car to life cheaply if search for cheap labour/engine. question is if it will handle abuse and agressive driving? I dont think Audio will be any better.

 

You need to be asking yourself a set of questions. Why is there a long history of replacing failed engines with used engines in regular cars if it's so hard?

And how are these people that have the used engines ever going to sell them for $10-13K if a perfectly working car of the same vintage is worth only slightly more than the replacement engine + install?

The people that pull the engines don't use them for decoration around the yard. They want to sell them. If they are asking crazy money, they will never sell them, and they will sit. These people that work in junk yards are about 10 rungs below a used car salesman. They will ask for stupid money hoping you are stupid. But if they can't get it, they still want money. Go make them an offer.

 

Yep been lurking this one from day 1, but you lost me after this line though...
As you well know I do appreciate what your doing DAVE T, as well as anyone else who does more than answer their rhetorical questions..ie 'I'm not going to spend $2k to get a dealer diagnosis', or "A new motor is too expensive".. So you have only one alternative right BUY A NEW CAR THAT ISN'T A JAG AND JOINT THAT BLOG!
So as one of those who is also doing the 'typical things' here in the Jag like turning wrenches, and reading YOUR long dissertation how YOU drove your XFR "3qts low" and now have metal shavings, BUT want to blame JAG, and how your company is doing VERY well, and you can afford ANY car you want, BUT you're agonizing over spending $2 grand to get a proper diagnosis on your Jag...really? I do hope you find your next one FAST!