Canada does NOT have any equivalent warranty law. You modify a warranted car and the warranty is void. Period.

If the oil starvation results from additional acceleration resulting directly from the modification I don't see how you can blame Jaguar.

If You choose to buy in the US and save those dollars then no surprise the local dealer won't go to bat for you. Why should they? You paid nothing to them.

 

Most Jags come with a dipstick. The problem is that it's INSIDE the car driving.

 

I have to ask Ian, do you believe in new car break-in periods? If not, then IMHO properly breaking in your car would have been crucial to your drivetrain life span. Just my .02 cents. But, the fact that the oil pick-up being starved is a major concern that Jaguar should look into. I agree, an oil pan baffle is cheap insurance especially if your driving it like you stole it, LOL

I will have to remember this thread when I purchase my first Jag next year. Hopefully, the dealership can have an oil pan baffle installed for me.

 

I'd take the so-called "information" with a healthy dose of salt. That's a pretty serious issue, and if jaguar was getting an epidemic of failed motors, there would be something done about it. At this critical juncture in their rebirth of the brand, they can ill afford negative press about eir flagship performance cars.

All I know is that we beat the crud out of the cars at the R Performance Academy for an entire day. Temps were in the nineties and we didn't give the cars a rest. They routinely hit the limiter and I personally took three cars to overheating on the track. They didn't blow up on us in those conditions...

 

Speaking as someone who brought a US car in....and has been treated like gold by Jaguar Canada and my local dealer I beg to differ. I have been and expect to continue being treated the same as someone with a Canadian purchased car. Jaguar Canada wants a 2 hour inspection to establish the car isn't a wreck or flood vehicle and then assume the warranty coverage in Canada as normal. Dealer has welcomed me with loaners, pick up and drop off service etc.....Very smart on Jag's part and the dealer.

Warranty rules and regs is another matter....no idea on cross border differences.

 

Oil pan slosh is common on other cars as well. One of my previous cars was known for oil starvation issues during long right hand turns. That pan went through 4 different updates throughout the years (more and more baffles) to address the issue. Most people ran another 1/2 of oil in the pan above spec and kept an eye on the oil levels. If you are really **** about it you can get a accusump which will always maintain oil pressure even when the pickup is dry.

Is the XKR/XFR 5.0L motor the same as the NA 5.0L motors? Did you have to find another XKR motor or could you get away with any 5.0L motor and swap your supercharger parts over to it?

 

Dear Jagular,

I am covered under U.S. warranty law as I was living in the States at the time, the thought that I bought American to save money is ludicrous.

U.S. consumer law does not distinguish if you were born in the States or not, thankfully.

The Jag was one of several cars that I owned in Charleston South Carolina ( The Jag dealerership in Charleston are awesome.)

There was no way I was going to buy the the car in Calgary and have it transported to Charleston for a year then brought back, it was not practical.

In fact by the time I brought it back to Canada with the current exchange rate, duty and taxes, the car cost me more than having paid for it in Canada.

I think the Jaguar dealerships in Canada are way too sensitive about American sold cars and I think their childish attitude it is hurting the brand.

You bring up a great point though, Canadians should purchase their vehicles in the States if they are then subsequently covered by better consumer protection laws.

I imagine you are just joking when you infer that the slight increase in acceleration rate caused the oil starvation.

When these systems are Engineered they have a built in margin of error, they will be designed for hard acceleration up steep inclines ( Mine was on the level when it failed during hard acceleration), and for future power upgrades like the XKRS (Same acceleration as mine) etc.

I do drive it like I stole it, that"s why I bought a Jag not a Prius, I expect to able to plant my foot on the floor and let the automatic transmission shift for me as it is programmed to right up to the red line.

If Jagaur thinks that is too hard on their premier sports car then they need to de-rate it.

I did actually run the car in, babying it for the first 2000 miles, I own a lot of very fast cars and very fast Jets and one thing I know as an Engineer is how to take care of mechanical equipment.

That being said I like to be able to run that mechanical equipment to its design limit without expecting a failure.

 

I decided not to give Jaguar the money for a new engine as I firmly believe the failure is their fault.

I purchased two more wrecked Jags at auction, one Jag XKR 2011 with 700 miles on it and 2010 XFR with 5000 miles on it.

I am using the engine out of the XFR and thinking about fixing the 2011 hard top XKR to be a track car.

I paid $24,000 for the XKR and $4000 for the XFR at Copart auctions.

I then had to retrieve them from the States.

 

I am sure that the track cars Jaguar use have the oil level checked prior to every race and so do not suffer from low oil levels that are low enough to cause problems but not low enough to set off the alarm.

I am also sure that I am not the only case of a blown engine under these conditions.

Most people let off the accelerator at about 80 MPH, suffice to say I kept her ploughed in until way past that (The car is designed for it!).

It is that continous aceleration that starves the engine of oil, so Jaguar either needs to fix it or limit the car in some way.

 

One more thing that might be of interest to XKR and XFR owners out there, my car limits at 262 KPH as tested by police laser at the Race the base event at Cold Lake in 2010.

The XFR driven by my buddy appeared to limit at 250 KPH at the same event.

Had the limiter been removed, there was enough room and power to easily exceed 300 KPH.

The limiter is being removed for the next event in 2012.

 

It is generally considered to be a fact that the Jaguar V8 is a very robust engine.

What do aerospace engineers know about reciprocating passenger car engines, one wonders. If the oil pressure is too low then the low oil pressure light will illuminate. It is a mechanical switch. If the oil pressure is not too low then the engine should not experience any oil starvation.

The first components in a modern engine that suffer from lack of oil flow are usually the valve train. How did the engine actually blow?

How is it that the driver failed to notice any warning signs?

You will find that US consumer protection legislation is not enforceable in Canada. Good luck litigating in the US!

 

We also do reciprocating engines here in Canada, although primarily it is Gas Turbines, my whole point is that no alarms came up during the failure.

I also design Engine management systems (Hardware and Software) both for reciprocating and Gas Turbine engines based on Allen-Bradley PLC's.

I think I am more than qualified to comment generally on control systems for any kind of engine, including small reciprocating units like this one. In fact in most Engineering circles I am considered an expert in this subject.

I have pictures which I will post that show the engine failed the big end bearings due to lack of oil. The metal is actually blued due to the localized high heat source.

We have no problems litigating in the U.S. and actually as the car was purchased there, we have no choice but to.

My consumer rights are protected no matter where I am from.

 

What about oil aeration or pump cavitation? Both as you know lead to lack of sufficiant oil on the bearings. And yet enither will turn on a warning. If I remember my 5.0 engine class I believe there is a windage tray at least between the oil and crank. And youde think the sump capacity is enough to keep the pickup covered even under hard acceleration. I cant speak for cornering because i think the car can generate more g force in a corner than acceleration

 

I was accelerating hard through the gears in a straight line on a level surface when the failure occurred at about 170 KPH.

I suspect that the pump was cavitatiing due to the ingestion of air bubbles as the oil level fell uncovering it.

The other typical cause of cavitation which we sometimes see is inlet restriction to the pump. This was not evident on this engine.

Oil aeration is a posibility and would have a similar effect, this might be caused by a combination of agitation and old oil, but I had good oil in the car and I think most peoples style of driving the Jag would throw up this failure more often.

It is possible my oil level being low (Possibly but not alarming) would have increased agitation.

Thanks for your input Brutal.

I don't have acces to the code inside the ECU but there may be a built in delay between the ECU seing low oil pressure and annunciating it?

I did have my eyes on the road of course and not on the display during the acceleration, however low oil pressure should have been recorded in the data logger and read by the dealer. It was not mentioned to me as an alarm that came up, but it might have.

 

Here is a picture of the journal.

 

You sure that wasnt connecting rod failure? Ive seen more issue on engine failures than bearing(speaking sudden catastrophy)

 

That may well be the case, I can only go by what I have been told by the experts on this engine type. I will get some more pictures loaded up and I would be most grateful for your comment and wisdom on them.

The Mechanic who stripped it for me ( I got a certified Mechanic to do it) offered this assesment of the failure :

"Ian, we have completed the removal of the engine out of the Jaguar.
We have also removed the oil pan to inspect for the trail to the catastrophic damage!
It is our professional opinion that oil starvation to the crankshaft-in particular the connecting rod journal for cylinder # 3/4, that caused the explosion."

 

Sorry to hear about ur JAG. Ian Cotton. That’s is why I put the info up some time ago for people to check the oil, because I heard of two other jag owners having the same problem and jag would not cover it. From my jaguar tech friend.

I was just wondering what type of oil you use, name and weight and how often you change it?

I hope Jaguar covers the repair for the car. Which I feel they should pay for. After paying all that money for a luxury high performance sports car. XFR should be able to take a betting and not brake.

 

Given that the blown engines are due to oil issues, is it possible that the recommended grade 5W-20 is not sufficient for extended high RPM/engine stress situations that have been noted? There was a techniclal paper a few years back authored by an Audi engineer indicating that extended running above 3000 rpm required 30 weight oil for sufficient lubrication of bearings. Just a thought.........I'll try and find the article and forward.

 

Be carefull by using thicker oils than what an engine is designed for, here is why:
FerrariChat.com - FAQ: Motor Oil Articles by Dr. Ali E. Haas (AEHaas)
Important for wear protection are high HTHS values of the oil you use, unfortunately higher HTHS values are to be found in thicker oils.
Sorry, no easy answer...