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2011 XJ 5.0L - Cant find the leak but you can see its been leaking

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2011 XJ 5.0L - Cant find the leak but you can see its been leaking

 
  #1  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:36 AM
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Default 2011 XJ 5.0L - Cant find the leak but you can see its been leaking

Hi There
I'm new to this forum
I have had this beautiful vehicle for a couple of years now
Black XJ 5.0L V* Supreme Lux with 55,000kms
I have recently l began smelling coolant so I have started a most detailed search:
Short version:-
There was coolant everywhere when I open the bonnet.
The Water reservoir coolant level was low.
I removed a lot of plastic air direction lines and inspected - nothing but the mess!
I washed the engine etc. and let dry.
I topped up the coolant level and ran the motor searching for the leak for over half an hour - Nothing!!
Then I removed the plastic air channel again and re-looked all over, but nothing!!!
So I refitted everything and went for a short ride of about 10~15mins
Returned.
Opened bonnet to find the engine and bay were messed up with coolant again...
Ran motor some more...NOTHING!!!!
I'm bamboozled!

Herewith a few pics:
Any Ideas would be appreciated.

Cleaned and drive for a day or two

From the day or twos driving

After cleaned and then a Short Drive One can see the splashing

Noticed this

Could this be something?

Is this from the oil filter? OR??
Thank you
 
  #2  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:19 PM
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Welcome to the forums Aceman123,

I've moved your question from X308 to X351 forum. This is the place to post technical question about your 2011 XJ.

Graham
 
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  #3  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:25 PM
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Thank you.
I wasn't sure where to post it.
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:43 PM
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The best approach for finding the source of coolant leaks is to allow the vehicle to cold soak, preferably overnight, then use a pressure tester pumped to 1 bar to locate the leak. If the pressure drops quickly, the leak is quite severe.

On the 5.0 litre units, pay particular attention to the expansion tank and the water pump as both are known failure points. Water pump failure on the 5.0 litre can cause catastrophic engine damage.

It's imperative you locate and correct the source of the leak(s) as the AJ133 gets very unhappy if overheated.
 

Last edited by NBCat; 05-10-2019 at 02:27 PM. Reason: Typing error
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:02 PM
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Thanks for the input.
The reservoir seems ok as there is no coolant in that area after the drive but mostly up front as you can see in the pic.
Water temp stays in the middle...
You got me slightly worried now
I may have to take it to the local dealer to check..
And that will be expensive...
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:07 PM
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One thing I did notice is that the leaking fluid seems to be red.
I have topped up with yellow fluid to see if the leak would show its face...
But the leak is still red so the leak may be semi- severe....here's hoping
The fact that the reservoir level goes down means the leak shouldn't be power steering fluid...
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:24 PM
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Is this a supercharged engine?
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by XJsss View Post
Is this a supercharged engine?
No .Why?
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:30 PM
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Do not rely on the coolant temperature gauge on the instrument cluster to determine if the engine is overheating or not. Use a bluetooth interface through the OBD port and the Torque app on a smart phone to monitor the actual coolant temperature. The coolant temperature should not exceed 110 C during normal driving. Best if it's in the 90 C to 95 C range.
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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Aceman, your best bet is to stop by your local auto parts place and see if you can rent a pressure tester (atleast here in the US, you put down a down payment, they give you the tool to use and if you return it in good condition, you get the money back). You will then want to also buy a bottle of what is called "coolant leak detector" or "coolant dye". This dye will light up very bright when subjected to black light. What you can do then is pour the bottle (will only be like 50ml of fluid) and then top up the overflow bottle. Run the engine for like 5 minutes at idle. Let the engine cool. Then, near dusk, connect up the pressure tester and press the system up to 1 bar (15 psig). You can then use a black light to look around the engine bay. Odds are, you are going to find a leak coming out from behind the water pump pulley. This can mean 1 of 2 things: 1) bad seal on the water pump, or 2) the coolant leaving the back of the water pump is leaking past the o-ring back there. Either way, you are going to end up replacing the water pump.

If you need more help, let us know. Any which way you look at it, a pressure test is your best bet. Otherwise, based on what you are describing, since the coolant is everywhere, you can take a fairly safe gamble and replace the water pump. But, note, when you replace the water pump, you are going to more than likely be forced to also replace 2 other hoses as jaguar has recently re-tooled the water pump and you can't use the old coolant hoses with the new style pump. So, you will need a new water pump, a new inlet hose, and a bleeder hose assembly. It is best if you also make sure that your water pump kit comes with 2 new o-rings for the connector on the back of the water pump and has a new 3 inch (80mm) adapter that fits the back of the water pump. From there, replacement isn't bad, but you need to make sure that you take your time and do things just so. A few of us had a dickens of a time putting it together and not having a leak. If you do your own work and am worried about this, I would say to look online and find the water pump gaskets for a land rover discovery with the 5.0L engine. You can buy the seals that way for like $8 (USD) each, but Jaguar will tell you that you have to buy a complete new water pump to get the seals. They are a once and done piece. Once you apply pressure to the seals, they are not supposed to be used again. Doing so is a risk that you may have a leak in a different place.
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:33 PM
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The water pumps are the same, but if you had a supercharged engine there are coolant connections and a pump for the inter cooler. But, it's probably the water pump.
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:04 PM
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Thanks for the prompt replies.
In SA you probably can’t hire a pressure testing unit
i will investigate, but time is of the essence
so best bet is I’ll take it to the agents
(Here should be a crying man emoji- hehe)
 
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NBCat View Post
Do not rely on the coolant temperature gauge on the instrument cluster to determine if the engine is overheating or not. Use a bluetooth interface through the OBD port and the Torque app on a smart phone to monitor the actual coolant temperature. The coolant temperature should not exceed 110 C during normal driving. Best if it's in the 90 C to 95 C range.
Never heard of the Bluetooth OBD interface etc....?
Would be interested in knowing more
Thanks
 
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:53 AM
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Aceman123, look up "elm327" into a search engine. The unit comes in a few different flavors (bluetooth, Wi-Fi, usb cable). Most people get the bluetooth version. From there, you will also find that there are two different versions out there, V1.8 and V2.1. You want the V2.1 style. From there, you can download a free app to your cell phone called "Torque" (only works on android phones, they don't have a version for Apple). You can normally pick up the ELM327 unit for around $20 USD. From there, you plug the ELM327 unit into your OBD port (under the steering wheel, down in the footwell area). From there you can look at a lot of the data that the car sees. I use this device and for the basic (backyard) mechanic, it will have a lot of the info that you are after. You can even trend the data over time using this device.

The other option that I have used is a device called "Autel HT200". I got mine for $33 USD. This works on both android and Apple phones. This is a much more powerful tool for looking at your car. This will allow you to look at the freezeframe data that the car collects at the time a fault code comes in. It also has a lot more functions that the ELM327 doesn't have (maybe other apps will open those up). The downside to this unit is that it likes to be connected to the internet when analyzing your car (doesn't have to be, but is always asking to connect) and it doesn't have a trending feature (atleast that I have found). But, you can see real time data. This is one of those tools that you will probably want to turn off/ignore a fair amount of the information as it can get into information overload. Granted, some times this large amount of data is good to see though too.
 
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:29 PM
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Thank for the info Thermo.
Will look into this at some stage as soon as I’ve got this problem to the agents on Monday
 
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:46 PM
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Just an update:
She passed the pressure test.
BUT I wasn't convinced... and by what everyone was saying, I purchased a new water pump and fitted it.
Bleeding is another matter altogether...
What is the correct method?

Then there's the issue of the Low Coolant level even when the level is well between the upper and lower level lines...
If I swerve the car quite violently to the one side/ direction then suddenly in the opposite direction the light goes off and seems to stay off
Later I drove it again and the low level alarm light came on again.
Same shenanigans with the steering wheel, and it went off again...
I think the float may be sticking or the level sensor is gone.
One cannot, it seems, purchase the items separately, and one has to buy the whole coolant reservoir
I tested the float = OK
Then the resistance of the sensor WRT the float height = OK
The float movement on the shaft = OK
So I used some contact cleaner
Re-fitted and awaiting to see if it is sorted now...

Here's a pic of the old water pump etc:


 
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:05 PM
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Aceman, there is no procedure required as the car has a self venting system. So, fill up the overflow bottle and then start the engine to help push the air bubbles around. They will find one of the high point vents in the engine and they will then get routed around to the overflow bottle. Some recommend that once the engine gets near termperature that you can raise the engine RPMs up to around 2,000 RPMs to help push the fluid around in the block and push the bubbles out. Once the engine gets up to temperature and you have most of the bubbles out (as noted by the overflow bottle lever remaining fairly constant. You can stop the engine and let it cool. You can then fill up the overflow bottle to the correct height and you should be done. I say to give the overflow tank another look about 50 miles later just to confirm that your level is stlll good.

As for the overflow bottle, yes, this is a common problem with the XF's and XK's and since they share the same components as the XJ, seeing it on an XJ is not unheard of. I am battling this same problem with mine. I have a new bottle that I will be fitting this weekend. if you go to the XF section, they say that you can remove the cap on the overflow bottle and there is a retainer that you can remove that will then allow you to remove the float. From there, they say you can trim down a piece from a CD-R container (the spacer that holds the CDs in place) and install that under the float and then re-install the float/retainer to never have another problem. Further on in that discussion, it seems the jaguar made some minor changes to this retainer in 2012/2013 and removing the improved one seems to be much more difficult.
 
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:51 PM
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I was going to tell you that is classic water pump slinging. No test needed. Did you replace the orings and pipe that goes from the oil cooler to the back of the wp? You have to, they deform and leak. Also if mine i would replace the outlet pipe under the intake and the bleed pipe from the reservoir. Youre there, and theyre plastic and failure prone
 
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:45 PM
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Thanks thermo
The float cannot be removed easily as there is a moulded black ring on top and if one tries I suspect that it will break.
As mentioned:
I refitted everything and used contact cleaner on the plug...
Let's see
I might have to replace the bottle...
 

Last edited by Aceman123; 05-15-2019 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Brutal View Post
I was going to tell you that is classic water pump slinging. No test needed. Did you replace the orings and pipe that goes from the oil cooler to the back of the wp? You have to, they deform and leak. Also if mine i would replace the outlet pipe under the intake and the bleed pipe from the reservoir. Youre there, and theyre plastic and failure prone
Hi Brutal. Yes thanks.
Jag recommended replacing the pipe and seal so we did.
And makes the world of sense to do so.
 

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