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2004 XJR - fuel pump repair and replace - RESOLVED
136000 on the clock now, daily driver for the last two years. Last couple of days it has had a very hard time starting when cold. After a few tries, it will catch and when it does everything is fine. If the engine is warm, it will start right up. This happens when the engine is cold (our temperature here in the Austin area did not drop below the 60s) yet so it is definitely not weather related.
At one occasion, I did turn the key on and off 3 times to see if priming the fuel pump would help and it did. It started right up. The MIL did not turn on. I am suspecting a marginal fuel pump. I will hook up my IDS / SDD setup to see if there is any record of malfeasance. Any one else with a similar experience? |
There's quite a trail of failed fuel pumps but that doesn't say yours is on its way out (though it may be).
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I just realized that I have been driving without the gas cap on since last fill-up. I had lost it. I ordered one from Amazon. May be it is a contributing factor?
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I'm amazed it didn't flag any codes.
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Originally Posted by JagV8
(Post 1346334)
I'm amazed it didn't flag any codes.
Getting back to the starting problem. Could also be that the fuel rail is not holding pressure. You can check the fuel pressure via OBD if you have Torque or another app, not necessary to have SDD. I believe there is a check valve somewhere between the fuel rail and the fuel filter under the front seat (under the car). I took off the filter once and was very surprised to find the rail under full pressure. |
I just got my replacement gas cap from Amazon and it is an original Jaguar part. Pretty cool. Part #: XR819276.
I did get the fuel cap warning once in the last 400 miles or so I have driven the car w/o a fuel cap. |
I hooked up my IDS/SDD setup but there were no relevant codes registered. I then registered my AutoEnginuity setup and also hooked up a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail (passenger side, rear of the engine) and realized that pressure does not hold at all. When the switch is turned on, on the first time it only goes to about 20 psi and then back to zero and on the second time it goes at about 60 - 70 psi and then immediately goes back to 0. I verified this also with AutoEnginuity....
The supercharged engines have two fuel pumps and I am assuming both have check valves built in? Is there a troubleshooting procedure that will allow me to isolate which of the two pumps is defective? |
Video of the fuel pressure gauge
Video link of my fuel pressure readings. I turned the ignition on and off twice and on the third attempt I started the engine. As you can see, the pressure is not being held when the engine is off
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Some pictures of the new fuel pumps I put in my XJR here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-pumps-130587/
It's not obvious to me where the a check valve is located, but it looks like there is a white plastic something on the left hand pump, which could be a check valve. EDIT no after checking all the pictures I see two of them. There are three lines that run across from the right hand pump to the left hand pump. The left hand pump is where the line to the front of the car gets connected. Three lines are; Feed from the right pump to the left pump, the main delivery line. Transfer from right side of tank to left Transfer from left side of tank to right Hope that helps you somehow. |
1 Attachment(s)
Some more info here.
Attachment 121638 So I guess the two white plastic check valves in the pictures are the ones referred to in the Tech Guide. |
Lagonia,
Another possible suspect might be the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor or "transducer," which is mounted at the rear end of the left fuel rail (as viewed from the driver's seat). It has both an electrical connector and vacuum line port. I haven't studied its operation on the X350, but presumably it works in conjunction with the check valve(s) to maintain pressure in the rails even when the engine is shut off. It seems unlikely that its default condition would be to open when electrical power is shut off, but it might be worth at least inspecting the electrical connector and vacuum hose for any obvious problems. On the earlier cars with mechanical/vacuum operated FPRs, FPR failure is a well-known cause of hard starting. I assume the same may be true on the more modern cars. Hope it's something easy to diagnose. Cheers, Don |
Awesome! Thanx Cambo, that does help. Need to source fuel pumps now. Gaudin wants over 1K $ for each one of them! I am hoping that there are reasonably priced aftermarket pumps out there....
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I never found any complete aftermarket pumps, I paid about GBP1000 for the pair from a UK supplier last year. If the pumps are able to deliver 70psi then the motors are still ok, or close enough to it, it's likely just the valves which are a problem.
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Don,
I believe the "transducer" you are talking about sits further back from the fuel filter. There are no electrical connections to this device. There is two lines going into it, one soft and one hard. See attached image. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...3b7e494093.jpg I have no idea what this thing does. |
The fuel pressure sensor is mounted on the fuel rail, left hand side up near the throttle body. It's a differential sensor referencing to the manifold boost pressure after the supercharger.
That thing in the line that has nothing connected to it... I remember doing a search for the part number that is stamped on it when I was having my "fuel troubles" I don't remember exactly what it is now, but it was not anything important enough for me to chase it up. What's the part number on it? |
Originally Posted by Cambo
(Post 1348487)
The fuel pressure sensor is mounted on the fuel rail, left hand side up near the throttle body. It's a differential sensor referencing to the manifold boost pressure after the supercharger.
That thing in the line that has nothing connected to it... I remember doing a search for the part number that is stamped on it when I was having my "fuel troubles" I don't remember exactly what it is now, but it was not anything important enough for me to chase it up. What's the part number on it? |
Originally Posted by Lagonia
(Post 1348492)
Part number is 2W93-9S446-AC. It appears to be a EMISSIONS FUEL VAPOR PURGE SOLENOID VALVE from my limited search. Probably irrelevant to my fuel delivery problem.
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Originally Posted by Cambo
(Post 1348448)
If the pumps are able to deliver 70psi then the motors are still ok, or close enough to it, it's likely just the valves which are a problem.
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Originally Posted by Cambo
(Post 1348503)
Just re-read your opening post, 136'000 miles, the pumps are due for replacement anyhow...
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Originally Posted by Lagonia
(Post 1348507)
:icon_frown:
The pumps on mine were on the way out at 108'000, I know of another XJR that had them replaced at 150'000. Your mileage is up there, that's all I meant. |
I managed to remove the rear seat and get access to the driver's side fuel pump. I had full intention of building the tool that is documented earlier in a link posted in this thread but decided to use a brass punch and a brass hammer to see if I could get the locking ring loose and it came right off without any issues. Now what I am looking for is the check valves. i wonder if the white inline gizmo that is shown in the picture attached is the check valve. I am sure there is probably one on the other side. If it is it is definitely bad.
If the fuel pump were to go bad, it looks like one can source it, keep the housing (assuming the housing is still good) and replace just the pump saving a boatload of money.... https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...474ee6b0a7.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...0443864e4b.jpg |
"If the fuel pump were to go bad, it looks like one can source it, keep the housing (assuming the housing is still good) and replace just the pump saving a boatload of money...."
I did that on a Saab years ago.........the pump itself was a Walbro. |
So I am not familiar with this time of fuel pump. It look like it is in two pieces. I can separate the top from the bottom by simply pulling the top part of the pump apart... is this normal? Check the following video:
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My new pumps were the same, with the top part lifting out. Actually one of them was separated so it could fit in the box.
I am pretty sure that the check valves are the white plastic pieces as you noted, but cannot be 100% definite. If I have time later i'll pull out my old pumps and see if I can disconnect that hose, check if that piece really is a check valve. |
Originally Posted by Cambo
(Post 1351975)
My new pumps were the same, with the top part lifting out. Actually one of them was separated so it could fit in the box.
I am pretty sure that the check valves are the white plastic pieces as you noted, but cannot be 100% definite. If I have time later i'll pull out my old pumps and see if I can disconnect that hose, check if that piece really is a check valve. |
Both fuel pumps on the left and right hand side are identical
They are Pierburg 03T260 / 7.28177.01 Could not find anything relevant on the net but anyone can cross-reference these pumps and report back, that would be awesome. |
I just checked one of my old pumps. That white plastic thing in the line certainly appears to be a check valve. I disconnected the white plastic y-fitting off the housing (what you had marked as a pressure releif valve on your picture) and then tried to blow through the pipe. No go. Then i tried to suck through it and I got a mouth full of fuel vapour. I'm confident those are the check valves.
Good info on the OEM pump supplier. Can you take down the physical dimensions of the pump, we would be able to find an alternative, the flow rates and pressures are already known so it's just a matter of finding one that fits in the housing. |
Thanx Cambo
The dimensions of the fuel pump are: - Diameter: 43mm - Highest point on the pump to the bottom - Height: 153mm https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...9b0cee73b1.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...c3af7fa519.jpg |
Hard starting RESOLVED (for now)
Here is my update:
The check valve attached to the driver's side pump was stuck open. After blowing some air and resetting it, it started working! Now, I obviously had to cut the two flexible lines out to get to the check valve and reassembling the check valve to the driver's side pump was not easy. I kept trying different things and finally got. I will post on that endeavor a bit later. For now, here's the video where it shows the pressure holding steady even after the car is turned off. The cheapy Harbor Freight pressure gauge shows 45psi but my OBDLink MX reader shows a pressure of 55psi |
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...0f7ac32abd.jpg
This is the very check valve that was stuck open. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...bb431e9af4.jpg These are the two flex lines that I had to cut to get to the check valve https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...602b8ccc73.jpg I tried different things to hook up the cleared check valve back to the pump assembly. I used these two hoses (had to cut the Dayco line to make it fit) https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...61dce56651.jpg The final connection of the Dayco fuel line to the pump was made after a shoved the bottom part of the fuel pump assembly into the tank. That was the hardest part - connecting the in tank hoses, shoving the pump in, making the final connection and then screwing the cap on |
One more piece of information that will most likely help someone in the future:
When I put the lids on both the fuel pumps, I needed to torque them to 60 N.m (that's what the book says). I did not want to use the drift and the hammer to line up the marks. That's when things break. Loosening things up with the drift - not a big deal. So, I did some searching around and found this on ebay:ABN Fuel Pump Module Spanner Wrench I received mine today and promptly went to work to secure the fuel pumps lids to the 60N.m torque value. It worked like a freaking charm!!! You can use the same tool to loosen or tighten the lids. And for $21.00! The specialized tool that Jaguar calls for costs over $500! Enjoy. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...e93a024ab9.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...354d42b9fe.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...40f526ab1c.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...2470dfe611.jpg |
I agree, buy the spanner wrench. The ring in my car had a crack in it and would leak when I topped off the tank.
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Originally Posted by Lagonia
(Post 1352046)
Thanx Cambo
The dimensions of the fuel pump are: - Diameter: 43mm - Highest point on the pump to the bottom - Height: 153mm https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...9b0cee73b1.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...c3af7fa519.jpg Product group Fuel pump 7.22013.02.0 has the specs but you can get this dirt cheap at: Fuel Pump BMW E39 16146752368 New | eBay Thinking of getting one, playing with it and comparing it to, what appears to be, a set of dead pumps that my XJR now sports. Worst case I can rig it to do something useful around the shop. |
Another piece of information. The Pieburg 7.28177.01.0 pump (the actual pump in the XJR) cross references to the Ford 2R 8U 9 350 AA. The search runs out of steam there. No further info.
Now this site, which I believe represents Pieburg, lists 7.28177.01.0 as not available: Type in 7.28177.01.0 for the article number once you "login". https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/msi/MSICD |
Great result!
This will help a lot of people out in years to come i'm sure. And the pumps in the XJR are the same ones as the S-Type R too so very helpful. |
Chances are the same pump is fitted in the normally aspirated V8.
On the basis that it is cheaper for the manufacturer to use the same part in all models. Here it is on ebay AU: BMW 5 Series E39 6 AND 8 CYL Fuel Pump 520i 523i 525i 528i 530i 535i 540i | eBay Made in China -what a surprise. Many thanks to Lagonia. |
This old thread has been very helpful. I had no fuel pressure at the rail, and took out both fuel pumps. I think my problem is going to be the check valve - I can't blow through it in either direction. I did go ahead and order two new pumps though, since I have 110,000 and I don't want to go through this again. I found the original Pierburg pumps for $122.54 on Amazon.
Now I have to find the check valve. |
Have you fitted the pumps yet? do they fit? looking at the same problem, dealer wants $1800 cdn, for the whole drop in assembly. I have an early vin, G26497, different part # for Vin after G27198, presumably something else in the fuel pump assembly, not the pump itself, I hope!
Stu |
I fitted the new pumps today. These are the ones I got:
The brand name on the actual pump isn't pierburg, but they appear to be identical. Everything went back in with no trouble and I now have 60psi on the rail at idle. I had also replaced the fuel pressure sensor on the other rail, and it seems to run fine. All in all, I'm happy to get this done for right around $300. |
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