XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

2004 XJR - fuel pump repair and replace - RESOLVED

 
  #41  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gmcgann View Post
The brand name on the actual pump isn't pierburg, but they appear to be identical.
Hi gmcgann,

I'm just curious, but were the pumps packaged in Pierburg boxes as shown in the Amazon photo? What brand name is stamped on the pumps? I'm always on the lookout for information on Jaguar OEMs and aftermarket suppliers.

Thanks!

Don
 
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  #42  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:45 AM
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The boxes said pierburg, but the pumps didn't. I don't remember what the name was. I should have taken a picture. The car runs great. Considering I spent right around $325 for the pumps, filter and fuel rail sensor I'm happy.
 
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gmcgann View Post
The boxes said pierburg, but the pumps didn't. I don't remember what the name was. I should have taken a picture. The car runs great. Considering I spent right around $325 for the pumps, filter and fuel rail sensor I'm happy.
The part number on the amazon link you provided is 7.22013.02.0. That number goes to both the Pierburg pump and a Hella pump. I'm assuming that's the other name you saw.
 
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:16 PM
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Actually, I spoke too soon. These pumps do not work. The correct part # is 7.22013.61.0. The ones I got are 3.5 bar and the XJR requires 4.8 or thereabouts. The 61.0 pump is 5 bar. The car ran, but full throttle would starve the injectors and cause misfires.
 
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  #45  
Old 03-24-2018, 11:26 AM
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I am trying to help a friend with his 2006 XJR. All signs are pointing to a failing fuel pump. This model has one higher-capacity pump instead of two pumps. Have any of you, in your research, found the correct pump for the later single-pump X350s?

The numbers that appear on this pump (motor) are as follows:

Printed on brown plastic top cover:

3 3 0
A11514M

Stamped into body:

993762267 13115 F 3969

I have not been able to cross reference these numbers to Pierburg, Walbro, Airtex, Delphi, Bosch, etc.

Any leads would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Don
 
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  #46  
Old 03-24-2018, 03:57 PM
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Don

Are there any manufacturer ID markings on the pump?

Assume '07 XJR's also have single pump "fuel module"?

Has your friend's 06 XJR thrown any codes? Does it start momentarily, then quit?

Has he tested for fuel rail pressure?

Tks, john
 
  #47  
Old 03-24-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hisport View Post
Are there any manufacturer ID markings on the pump?

Assume '07 XJR's also have single pump "fuel module"?

Has your friend's 06 XJR thrown any codes? Does it start momentarily, then quit?

Has he tested for fuel rail pressure?

Hi John,

The only manufacturers markings on the pump are the ones in my previous post, aside from some casting numbers on the baseplate that do not look like pump numbers to me but I'll go look at them again and post them here.

The car presented with P0087: low fuel rail pressure. Via OBD, fuel pressure at startup was around 46psi (low) and would never reach 50psi under any driving conditions. Under load it would fall to 13-22psi. I ran the pinpoint tests for P0087 to check the Fuel Rail Pressure (FRP) sensor circuitry and determined the sensor was failing. I replaced it and now fuel pressure at startup is around 55psi (normal), but under hard accelleration it would still fall into the 10s and 20s. I cleaned the engine bay grounds and the ECM connectors, along with the trunk grounds and REM connectors. I cleaned the fuel pump connector and the grey connector near the fuel pump. No change.

I replaced the fuel filter, which seemed to help slightly but not enough, so I pulled the fuel pump to check the condition of its sock filter and discovered it was clogged with black gunk. I flushed it out with 3 cans of brake cleaner and temporarily reinstalled it. Now, at startup the pressure is 55psi, and under hard acceleration it rises briefly to 70-78psi (normal to high), but then falls again to around 20psi or less. When this happens, pending DTCs P0087, P0088 (fuel pressure too high) and P0193 (fuel pressure too high) are flagged, and the fuel pressure remains in the 20s. But if, while driving the car, I clear the pending DTCs, fuel pressure returns immediately to 55psi, so the pending codes are prompting an inhibition of the pump.

My current theory is that the ECM adaptations have adjusted to drive a failing/struggling pump harder to supply adequate fuel flow for higher engine loads, but now that the FRP sensor has been replaced and the filters replaced/cleaned, the adaptations are overdriving the pump under hard acceleration, but the pump can't keep up with demand. The original pump has done 110K miles, so based on the experience of several of our two-pump-car owners, this reinforces my suspicions that the pump needs to be replaced.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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  #48  
Old 03-24-2018, 07:42 PM
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Don
My investigations into the spec of the two pump set up for the earlier xjr led to a pump (Pierburg 7.22013.61.0) that was installed into the BMW M5 which had a 4.9 litre 400HP engine.
I think the M5 only has one of these pumps and it manages to deliver enough fuel at a high enough pressure to a BMW engine that generates 400HP, the same as the early and later xjr.
I suppose the later single pump unit must have to have a similar delivery capability as this. Maybe jaguar found that there was no need for two pumps of this spec and went with a single pump of the same spec.
Do you have a picture of it? Does it look like the Pierburg unit?

The pump fitted to the later xjr must be fitted to other vehicles of similar vintage and horse power.
Maybe that's a place to start looking.
 
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  #49  
Old 03-24-2018, 08:01 PM
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Don

Also the pump and sender assembly for the later xjr seem to be available from SNG barratt for around 300 sterling.
What are the last 6 VIN digits of the car?
 
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Old 03-24-2018, 08:23 PM
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VIN of this 2006 XJR is 491**

Here are some photos of the single fuel pump. As you can see, it is not the Pierburg 7.22013.61.0 used in the earlier dual-pump cars. The wires are soldered and the hose connections are different.

The numbers printed on the brown plastic top cover or cap:
3 3 0
A11514M



Here are the numbers laser-engraved on the body: 993762267 13115 F3969. I have not tried to scan the QR code but will see if my phone's app can read it.



The numbers cast into the baseplate: A2C531 83673 GG 42



Small hose connections and soldered wire connections on top of pump:



State of the sock filter/strainer when I lifted the pump out of the plastic canister. The blue plastic component is the check valve, and it appears to work properly:



Thanks for your input!

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2018 at 08:48 AM.
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  #51  
Old 03-25-2018, 08:47 AM
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Don,

First, big compliments on your painstakingly and thorough approach in helping your XJR friend!

- Are you monitoring fuel pressure with a mechanical pressure gauge, or via OBD port? If pressure gauge, where are you tapping the rail?

- Given your hypothesis that earlier (failing pump/clogged tank filter) adaptions may now be causing overpressure, would a hard ECU reset be of any value?

- Any (trunk fuse block) fuse 24 or 33 failures?

- Was the faulty fuel pressure sensor (upon VOM pin check) open? Intermittent?

- Did you happen to test fuel pump drive circuit for current and duty cycle?

- I also briefly checked replacement fuel pump (assume XR856398 ?) prices, and they seem to range from ~$400 to ~$1,200 (in the US). US SNG Barrett appears to want ~$900, while UK SNG is lower price, as noted. All are the OE Jag part, I think. Here's a ~$400 sample:

https://www.parts.com/index.cfm?fuse...rger-FUEL-PUMP

- I couldn't find anything either on the pump you pictured. Believe your cell phone scan idea is best

- Any indication/marking of entire fuel pump module manufacturer? I assume Jag outsources these as an assembly

- Apart from the overpressure code, does the car perform properly now?

Tks, john
 
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:34 PM
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UPDATE:

Thanks to John's good questions, I went back and took a look at the fuel pump canister. First of all, the fuel level sender is marked Continental. I don't know if this tells us anything about the rest of the assembly, but Continental does make fuel pumps:



Aside from some molding marks that begin with A2C and probably represent multiple products that use the same canister, the only printed markings on the plastic canister are:

X206/356 FED NA PUMP

A2C53088886 6R83-9H307-AB

0015109026 (Barcode?) 25/02/2016 (Date?)




I haven't had time to search all these numbers, but the first thing that caught my eye was what appears to be the date, 25 February, 2016. If that really is a manufacturing date code, this obviously cannot be the original pump in this 2006 XJR.

The second thing is that searching 6R83-9H307-AB turns up multiple listings for 3.0L V6 S-Type fuel pumps. Here's an exampe:

http://www.justparts.com/Auto_Parts/...307AB/32479603

If these listings are correct, this pump may be an incorrect replacement, which which may explain the problem....

6R83-9H307-AB looks like a Ford part number and some searches of 6R83-9H307-AB turn up Ford pumps with 9H307-AB in their part numbers but not 6R83. This could make perfect sense given that the 3.0L V6 in the S-Type is an upgraded version of the Ford Duratec engine.

John, to answer a few of your great questions, I'm measuring fuel pressure via the OBD datastream. My fuel pressure gauge kit is pretty good but it doesn't have the fittings I would need to tap this system (working on that).

Unfortunately, another issue I'm dealing with is that this car has one or more network problems and SDD cannot communicate with the ECM, ABS, EPB or IP. I haven't dug into the wiring but I've tried the known methods of restoring communications with the ECM and they haven't worked.

Some additional background: this car was purchased at auction and was not charging the battery. I diagnosed a failing alternator and have replaced that and restored proper charging voltages. I had hoped the P0087 was just due to low battery voltage, but no such luck.

I've shopped for Jaguar pumps too and have found the same pricing you have, but since my friend has already paid for an alternator and FRP sensor I'd like to save him whatever additional cost I can. Would love to just replace this pump instead of the entire canister since the fuel level sender and check valve are working fine.

No, the car is not working properly. When the pending DTCs are triggered, the fuel pressure remains low and the engine will eventually stall.

The fuel pump pinpoint tests I have run per the Workshop Manual involve measuring voltages and resistances. I haven't found an instruction to measure the current or duty cycle. If I understand the control circuit operation, duty cycle will be highly dynamic and therefore perhaps difficult to interpret unless it's outside of the range mentioned in the manual.

All fuses in the RPDFB (trunk fuse box) are good, but that certainly doesn't mean the circuit boards are all good.

More to come - thanks for your great input!

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2018 at 10:45 PM.
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  #53  
Old 03-25-2018, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Don B View Post
Aside from some molding marks that begin with A2C and probably represent multiple products that use the same canister, the only printed markings on the plastic canister are:

X206/356 FED NA PUMP

A2C53088886 6R83-9H307-AB

0015109026 (Barcode?) 25/02/2016 (Date?)

Looks like you have the VDP/XJ8 pump assembly for 2006-2009 models... Also fits s-type 2006-2008

https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts...ad=47433948012

https://www.carid.com/genuine/fuel-p...44&url=1055893
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2018 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Victor Marquez View Post
Looks like you have the VDP/XJ8 pump assembly for 2006-2009 models... Also fits s-type 2006-2008
Hi Victor,

Thanks for that lead. When I searched 6R83-9H307-AB with or without hyphens at Parts Geek and Carid I get no results.

Thanks for any additional information you can offer.

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2018 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Don B View Post
Hi Victor,

What part number did you search to come up with those listings? When I search 6R83-9H307-AB at Parts Geek and Carid I get no results.

Thanks!

Don
I did a google search for 2006 jaguar xjr fuel pump, saw images similar to what you posted and went from there. But looking at the part numbers in the Jag EPC, the pump for the xjr (XR856398) and xj8 (XR852872) look the same, so...

I think they did go to one pump in 2006. And upon further looking it seems this might be one of Jags new go to pumps, using it for XF 2009-2015

https://www.pacificmotors.com/auto-p...pe-xj-2006-09/






Says siemens

 
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Victor Marquez View Post
I did a google search for 2006 jaguar xjr fuel pump, saw images similar to what you posted and went from there. But looking at the part numbers in the Jag EPC, the pump for the xjr (XR856398) and xj8 (XR852872) look the same, so...

I think they did go to one pump in 2006. And upon further looking it seems this might be one of Jags new go to pumps, using it for XF 2009-2015

https://www.pacificmotors.com/auto-p...pe-xj-2006-09/






Says siemens

This is your part number: 6R83-9H307-AB
 
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  #57  
Old 03-26-2018, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Victor Marquez View Post
I did a google search for 2006 jaguar xjr fuel pump, saw images similar to what you posted and went from there. But looking at the part numbers in the Jag EPC, the pump for the xjr (XR856398) and xj8 (XR852872) look the same, so...

I think they did go to one pump in 2006. And upon further looking it seems this might be one of Jags new go to pumps, using it for XF 2009-2015

https://www.pacificmotors.com/auto-p...pe-xj-2006-09/


Says siemens

Hi Victor,

Thank you for that research! I'm not sure if you are saying that Jaguar used the same pump for the S/C and N/A cars but all the resources I've checked show different part numbers. The original numbers were C2C24165 for the S/C and C2C24164 for the N/A. Searching C2C24165 at jaguarmerriamparts.com shows this part number but gives no supersession to another number, but I've run into that a lot with Jaguar's online parts listings.

Searching jaguarmerriamparts.com for the fuel pump for the supercharged cars turns up your number XR856398. Searching for the fuel pump for the normally-aspirated cars turns up XR852872. Obviously the part numbers are different for the S/C and N/A cars, but visually the assemblies probably appear the same. The difference must be the flow rate of the pump motor itself, and that is what I really want to find if possible, since it is really all I need. I know I can buy the complete assembly, but at $400+ I'm hoping I can save my friend at least $200 by just replacing the pump motor.

On the pump assembly in your photos, the part marked Siemens is the fuel level sender. That is the part labeled Continental on my assembly. I don't know if Siemens or Continental made the entire pump assembly just the sender, but I will definitely search Siemens part numbers to see if something turns up.

Also, I noticed that the number in blue on the white top of the motor in your photo is different than on the pump in my photos - that may be another clue.

Thanks again!

Cheers,

Don
 

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Old 03-26-2018, 08:52 AM
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Don:

Oooh, the plot thickens, eh?

- I did a quick search and couldn't find a cross reference between jag p/n and continental p/n (but such a thing surely exists). Perhaps have (a jag dealer?) check the numbers on a new Conti X356 XJR pump assembly vs yours

- Your inkling (and Victor's) that the pump may be non XJR definitely needs to be chased down, IMHO. This would be an understandable repair error. Suggest you might have Jag dealer run the VIN to see if pump was dealer installed (in which case incorrect pump might be warrantied)

- One reason for the scrutiny is that the pump motor itself appears to be ECM (brushless DC; see link below). This would likely mean that the motor commutation is being performed eternally (by the XJR). If the ECM pump motor is incorrect for the XJR commutation algorithm, it would not perform properly, if at all

https://www.continental-automotive.c...tric-Fuel-Pump

What diameter is your pump motor proper? Looks like Conti makes 38, 43, and 50mm ECM pumps. I'd wager XJR uses 50mm; NA or V6 perhaps a smaller diameter

- I'm intrigued by the canbus issues you mentioned. Having just chased my own tail (07 XJR; see "Getting Grounded" post), any possibility that cleaning up ground points might be worthwhile? (It was one of your old forum threads that helped me with this)

- Your XJR friend is incredibly fortunate. I'll wager that this car was wholesaled due to inability of owner/dealer to fix
 
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Old 03-26-2018, 11:06 PM
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Hi John,

Yes, I did clean the engine bay and trunk grounds, along with the ECM, REM, and fuel pump connectors (see post #47)!

The pump diameter is 42.55mm (nominally 43mm).

The owner has found a number of used XFR pumps via car-part.com at reasonable prices so he is going to purchase one so we can give it a try (same part number as 2006 XJR: XR856398). For some reason they show a boatload of XFR pumps but no XJR pumps... In 2010 the XFR pump number was changed, so he's looking for a low-mileage pump from a 2009.

The more I think about the apparent date code and part number on the pump in this car, the more I suspect someone installed a 3.0L S-Type pump and the car never ran right so they sent it off to auction.

When the XR856398 pump arrives I'll post some photos for comparison and also report the results.

Now on to dig further into the network communication problems....

Cheers,

Don
 

Last edited by Don B; 03-26-2018 at 11:10 PM.
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  #60  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:45 AM
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Don:

Again. I agree with your "repair error" inkling. And, I'll bet the comm issue has a similar origin

IIRC, your Conti pump assembly was marked "X206/356". Believe X206 was late S series, and X356 is, of course, the car you're working on. I'm not v familiar with other Jags, but believe the X206 was available (in addition to Ford V6) with Jag V8's as well? Was there not also a 4.2L SC version (R type)? So, the pump could be for a euro V6 X206/356, or a euro/US V8 NA (as Victor? suggested), or could be correct 4.2 SC (see below)

For me, the huge issue with mismatched pump (in an X356) is not so much about ultimate volume and pressure as it is electrical compatibility. Pump power is multiplexed with BLDC (brushless DC) external commutation signal and rail pressure/load demand PWM (pulse width modulation) signal. If the motor diameter or pole count varies between X356 XJR and (the pump you have), then ECM signal will be incorrect, right off the top. And, it would perform v poorly, if at all

As an aside, it appears to me (reading through this thread, which I believe began with an '04 XJR X350) that the X350 used (dual) conventional brush type DC pump motors. These are also variable speed, as required by the single (non return) fuel line EFI design. And, the variable speed is achieved via PWM signal. So, you could momentarily test run these X350 XJR pumps from a pure 12VDC battery source (essentially 100% duty cycle). Trying this 12VDC test with the BLDC X356 pump (with the ECM module out of circuit) would likely result in nada, and, shortly, smoke

So, I know even less about XFR's etc, but underscore that the pump has to be correct to the X356 XJR. I assume if the p/n is same, and the used pump isn't duff, you should be OK

Pure SWAG (Scientific Wild *** Guess):
If the installed pump turns out to be correct, you may find that the PCM to pump module signal is being compromised by the canbus issues mentioned earlier

Finally, I would be glad to run any parallel pressure checks, etc on my 07 XJR (also X356) if this would help you in any way. Feel free to PM or call me (336 325 3101)

john
 
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