XJ XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR ( X350 & X358 ) 2003 - 2009

chains replaced, but not the rattle with silence

 
  #21  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:11 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Thanks Jackra_1,
My car has exactly the same rattle at cold start for exactly the same brief duration as Zigjag's.
I am guessing that the only solution is to replace the VVT's which is very expensive and very, very complicated. (see #4 under following post):

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...rattle-125191/

On reflection, I think I will just live with it!
 
  #22  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:42 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Apparently it is drain down & Radiator out, Pulley off, Engine front cover off, Cam covers, aircon bracket removed, etc, etc, etc
 
  #23  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:01 AM
jackra_1's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 3,666
Received 870 Likes on 670 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by EsRay View Post
Apparently it is drain down & Radiator out, Pulley off, Engine front cover off, Cam covers, aircon bracket removed, etc, etc, etc
A great deal of labor to say the least.

I will live with the noise I hear in the Rover engine until one day when I have nothing better to do.................
 
  #24  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:04 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

A wise choice, Monsieur!
 
The following users liked this post:
jackra_1 (05-10-2019)
  #25  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:38 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Okay, this is for Timing Chain and Tensioners for an X308, but I imagine the VVT job on an X350 will be similar?

Worth avoiding 3 seconds of misery (and as I understand it - Correct me if I am wrong - very, very minimal wear)?

Enjoy!

Tmingi chain and tensioner replacement
 

Last edited by EsRay; 05-10-2019 at 11:44 AM.
  #26  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:47 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woking, Surrey
Posts: 21
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Hey - I get a 2 sec rattle on cold start and sometimes after a subsequent 4-5 hr cool down (so not stone cold).

ive used a Archoil 9100 oil treatment product, which has made a constant to become an intermittent issue. Iím wondering if a proper flush and/or switch to 0w30 oil would help.
 

Last edited by cornershop; 05-11-2019 at 12:21 AM.
  #27  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:47 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Woking, Surrey
Posts: 21
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

I got quoted 2k GBP to change both VVTs by an jaguar indie.
 
  #28  
Old 05-10-2019, 03:44 PM
zigjag's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 23
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have seen the option to add a unit that pressurizes the oil prior to using ignition - works reliably, uncertain of cost but if its being done must be much cheaper.

The solenoid wiring can be corroded which releases pressure somehow in the VVT. I don't know where the solenoid is yet, it may be somewhere with easier access? Cold it be tested using a meter from the junction box?

After oil change, the rattle went away on mine, but comes back after 500km indicating that it is not a solenoid issue.

Additives may work as per cornershops comment, I have added motorup which slowly builds an additional layer outside of all surfaces (it has improved combustion as a by product).

I have learned that the VVT itself has a pin that causes it to loos pressure if not seated well. I am hoping the additive will fix it, but i did that before changing the oil which may reduce the additives impact.

Because I just had the whole thing repaired and it wasn't done properly, im simply after a diagnosis to support my next move, which is to get it done properly by the mechanic who didn't so I want it opened up to see what is wrong and fix the noise I asked to be fixed.
 
  #29  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:23 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=zigjag;2068664] I don't know where the solenoid is yet, it may be somewhere with easier access? Cold it be tested using a meter from the junction box?

After oil change, the rattle went away on mine, but comes back after 500km indicating that it is not a solenoid issue.

Additives may work as per cornershops comment, I have added motorup which slowly builds an additional layer outside of all surfaces (it has improved combustion as a by product).

The solenoids are very easy to find. They are at the front-end of both Cam Covers, under a rubber seal and with their wiring connector poking out:


VVT in centre of pic

Herewith an excellent description of how they work:
 

Last edited by EsRay; 05-10-2019 at 10:29 PM.
  #30  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:45 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Incidentally, I don't think it is the pin not seating well.
My understanding (such as it is) is that the pin is pushed into its seat (thereby locking the two concentric 'vanes' of the VVT) by oil pressure; this oil pressure is leaking out overnight on our engines and it takes a couple of seconds for the pressure to rebuild at cold start and reengage the pin? The unlocked 'sprocket' and its chain spin and rattle for those two seconds until the pin has reengaged?

I don't know why the oil pressure is being lost; could it be that it is leaking out under the Cam Cover past a worn solenoid? The solenoids have sliding parts (valve-like) that open and close oil channels and surely there must be a good seal when closing a channel? If worn, could oil leaking by a closed (but worn) solenoid cause this loss?

If this is so, could the solenoid possibly be removed and replaced by simply lifting the Cam Covers, or does the Front Cover of the engine have to come off?

Again, someone more knowledgeable is very welcome to comment or correct me.....(or both)!
 

Last edited by EsRay; 05-10-2019 at 11:03 PM.
  #31  
Old 05-11-2019, 07:50 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Stow Ohio
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes on 190 Posts
Smile

Sounds a lot like worn hydraulic valve lifter on cold start up to me.
Not the worst thing, just not a real thing good to hear on start up of any motor.
Maybe that's why they put stereo's in cars?
 
  #32  
Old 05-11-2019, 06:41 PM
zigjag's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 23
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Wingrider View Post
Sounds a lot like worn hydraulic valve lifter on cold start up to me.
Not the worst thing, just not a real thing good to hear on start up of any motor.
Maybe that's why they put stereo's in cars?
Thanks Wingrider,

That is a different opinion to current consensus of what is causing the noise, and its the one that my mechanic started with before getting creative.

Just to confirm that you referring to the sound made on the video I attached when I started this thread?

I'd assume that if a lifter was worn you would replace that also when doing the chains, especially if the client expected the noise gone.

PS, I FULLY use the stereo system on this XJR, if i was younger i'd say it was wack, man!
 
  #33  
Old 05-11-2019, 07:10 PM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Stow Ohio
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 215 Likes on 190 Posts
Default

Never repaired a noisy lifter on the cars from those days, just drove them.
Quieted down right after starting, never a real issue.
Body rusted away long before the motor quitting.
 
  #34  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:45 AM
zigjag's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 23
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The latest in my journey is that my car (a Jaguar 2007 4.2 V8 XJR) japanese new, then imported to new zealand, does not have VVTs, according to my mechanic.

Wingrider, your lifter response is now the most favored one, and the only one in fact, unless there is a VVT....


G
 
  #35  
Old 05-17-2019, 09:54 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Well, That's good news; look at all the money you are going to save!

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...actuator,12910

Have you checked that your XJR IS 2007? I ask, because from memory (albeit a little poor sometimes) I recall seeing something, somewhere about only pre 2006 XJR's not having VVT?

This does not mean that Wingrider is not right - Wingrider is often right, but it may raise questions about your XJR or your mechanic?
 

Last edited by EsRay; 05-17-2019 at 10:23 AM.
  #36  
Old 05-17-2019, 10:31 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

Zigjag, I sent you a pic of my VVT; okay, my car is N/A and I know that (for example) your Throttle Body is at the back of your engine, but surely a supercharged car will still have its Cam Chains (and any VVT) in the same place at the front of the engine? Otherwise, how will the crankshaft drive them?

Why don't you just look at it, instead of relying on a mechanic who appears to change his mind with the seasons?
 

Last edited by EsRay; 05-17-2019 at 10:35 AM.
  #37  
Old 05-17-2019, 11:45 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Florida
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Just to get this straight - I think I am right in saying the X350 does NOT have VVT - only the X358 (?). My sonin Law has a Honda Accord which has an infamous VVT rattle on startup. It sounds like a death rattle and is a very common problem on that engine. The "experts" say it does no harm and is caused by oil starvation in the first few seconds and can only be fixed by replacing the VVT assembly.
Steve
 
  #38  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:07 PM
jackra_1's Avatar
Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 3,666
Received 870 Likes on 670 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by exiledbrit View Post
Just to get this straight - I think I am right in saying the X350 does NOT have VVT - only the X358 (?). My sonin Law has a Honda Accord which has an infamous VVT rattle on startup. It sounds like a death rattle and is a very common problem on that engine. The "experts" say it does no harm and is caused by oil starvation in the first few seconds and can only be fixed by replacing the VVT assembly.
Steve
The V8 x350 NA does have VVT and the XJR 2006 and on does have VVT.
 
The following users liked this post:
Don B (05-17-2019)
  #39  
Old 05-17-2019, 12:10 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dubai
Posts: 609
Received 66 Likes on 58 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=exiledbrit;2072108]Just to get this straight - I think I am right in saying the X350 does NOT have VVT - only the X358

Okay, I give up! goodbye.....people are not bothering to actually read these posts....
 

Last edited by EsRay; 05-17-2019 at 12:26 PM.
  #40  
Old 05-20-2019, 04:49 PM
zigjag's Avatar
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 23
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Sorry about that EsRay, I am getting great value from this, my Post and thank all that are responding. Keep it coming!
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: chains replaced, but not the rattle with silence


Advertising
Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: