Found a way for a 6HP26 to 6R80 swap! Lightning shifts, and 1000hp capability!
 

Hi everybody,

One reason our cars are slow for their power/weight is the dreadfuly slow shift times, esp. 1-2 which takes 800ms, that's almost a whole second!

For the last 5 years I have been searching for someone to do something to our 6HP26, either via the BMW route, or the Australian Nizpro way. Neither works, and nobody is willing to make a tune for us.

The 6R80 is the 6HP26's beefed up cousin, and the '11-'14 models have an external electronic control, which is compatible with the usshift quick6 aftermarket controller.

Trouble is that the transmission is wired through the car's CAN, so any swap must make the transmission talk to the other systems & engine through the CAN. That's where I thought it was a dead end.

However, last week I found two things out, which suddenly make the swap possible:

1. There now is a PLUG-AND-PLAY standalone engine management system for the supercharged 4.2 V8 which talks to the car's sensors, so everything from ABS to the dash cluster works like stock.

https://www.p-v-e.co.uk/projects/plug-and-play-s-type-r-aftermarket-ecu-system/

Caldoofy told me about them a month ago, and initially I was sad to find out this was made for a manual transmission conversion, and to me, to put a manual in is unacceptable. That's when again I thought it was a dead end.

2. The breaktbrough came when I watched a 6R80 swap in a 5spd auto Mustang 3v with the usshift controller. It seems the controller works with an engine tune made for a manual transmission! At the minimum for it to work, it only needs a TPS signal! speed & rpm inputs are optional.

So basically you install the plug&play ECU above, and you can swap in the 6R80 with absolutely no errors, and everything works! Just tap the tps wire from the TB!

The only remaining aspect now is the mechanical part of the conversion. This is where I need the board's help.

Do any of you fine ladies and gentlemen know of a shop which would perform the swap? There needs to be a bellhousing adapter plate custom made, because the jag 6hp26 & engine has a different bolt pattern than the 6R80, the converter & flexplate must be made to match, the 3 bolt output from the 6HP26 is different from the 4 bolt on the 6R80, so something must be done to the 2 piece OEM driveshaft.

I am from Europe, but chances are if somebody can do this it's our friends from across the pond.

I am ready to buy fitment parts from the US (i.e. block, 6hp26 & 6r80, driveshaft and whatever else is needed) and have them sent to the US based shop, but if anyone is interested to do the swap and have their car at the shop, I am prepared to cover the first $1000 of the costs!

The knowledge gained would help us get the custom parts made in series, and they could be sent as a kit anywhere in the world.

If there are are no "volunteers", I can settle for any lead as to which competent shop could do the mechanical swap with parts provided by me, or them.

I hope the community can help me, and my project! A KB TS 4.2 with a standalone, caldoofy's headers& cats, and the 6R80 with instant shifts would give any supercar a run for its money!

When I bought my XJR, the previous owner offered a transmission rebuild by a friend who was a Ford mechanic. His plan was to build the Ford trans inside the Jag case. That seemed fairly doable, but I had other plans for my extra $$ just then. That would make the mechanical part a nonissue, as the case would be exactly the same. Turns out my transmission was in ok shape, and I've bought a back up trans at a breaker just in case. Maybe playing Murphy's Law; the part that says the thing you have the parts to repair will never fail.

10R80 might actually be less work because the 3.0 lion/powerstroke shares the bolt pattern with the AJ.

you would just need to find one out of a 2WD F150 which is easier said then done

Thanks for the suggestions, it would be interesting to find out if one can keep the 6hp26 case. Wouldn't there be a problem with the external TCU on the '11-'14 vs the OEM which is suspended in oil? Any other items of concern? Can your mechanic confirm that it can be done? Finally, the output flange is differrent on the 6hp as opposed to the 6r80, is the output shaft the same diameter and spline count? can so.ething be done? And finally, if everything fits, it would only be a matter of a custom converter with the spline of the 6r80 shaft, and the mounting points of the Jag one?

On the 10R80 option, it would be so cool, but I see it's still indevelopment, and the last update is from 2020. Any good source for a 4x2 Lion trans? I searched google and ebay, and I didn't find anything.

Safest route I think would still be a shop that could make an adapter plate for the trans, and a custom driveshaft.

Either way, I am open to every option - even the Frankensteinian idea some BMW gearheads had to stick a 6hp26 instead of their 6hp19, which meant cutting the bellhousing of one, and welding it on the other:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...a24b1ba651.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...0f3edd9aa6.jpg


So, any shops that could perform the swap, perhaps with outsourcing for the driveshaft and converter come to mind?

the 11+ 6R80 uses a lead frame with the same 16 pin connector coming out. the TCM portion is relocated together with the PCM.

there is no longer any onboard processing, the lead frame just does what it is told from the TCM.

I don't see that mechanic, to ask, but the original pitch was that he was an expert on type, & There were just a few different parts between the 6HP26 and the Ford truck trans. At the time, he wanted $1200 to do it. I probably should have gone for it, but I'm not driving it flat stick all the time anyhow.

That would make our Jaguars one serious sleeper:icon_biggrin:

Definitely would like to see where this could go. I’m a gearhead over here in Texas so the possibility of doing something like this certainly is quite interesting. Especially the possibility of a 10R80 in these cars. Would make it shift ultra fast and lead to ultimate tuning potential as the mustangs and such that use them can be modified to make tons of power and shift quick. I know of many a N/A mustang with some relatively minor work done to them hitting the low 11’s to high 10’s. Since our cars are lighter than most having an aluminum chassis and all the potential is definitely there.

Eric IN Texas, just verified what the guy at the Lincoln parts counter said.
When i was buying Mercon SP trans fluid, he asked what i was buying it for.
When i told him, he said that the trans, was a modified truck trans, heavy duty.

Does anybody know where one could find a Lion bolt pattern 10R80? And is there a place that does custom output flanges? or custom 2 piece driveshaft? I have to connect the trans to the rear somehow.. or is there another way?

In Ft Worth TX, there are numerous places that will fab a drive shaft, hopefully somewhere in your area that is similar.

It should be worth noting that I am located in Transylvania, Romania, Europe.
Our educational system is broken, and for the last 30 years kids were taught only to memmorize and reproduce information. Nobody knows how to actually do something, but everybody has 2 University degrees, a masters, and a doctorate.

I have had extremely bad experiences looking for places to do actual tuning on my engine, there are some well known race shops here, but when they heard they have to actually tune the car, and not just bolt somebody else's parts with somebody else's software, they turned me down.

I am not even considering bothering myself to search shops near me. Western Europe, or the States.

Ideally would like to find somebody that makes a custom piece to needed specs, then ships it to me.

I have a forwarding company in NY which deals with customs red tape for me, so I am very open to places in the US that can help.

You might try Automotive Driveline Supply - The Aluminum Driveshaft Specialists!

Hey Matei Dima. Did you ever see this thread from the old Aussie V8 forum?

That's really great information, I maybe should have let the Ford transmission tech have a go. That is exactly what he was proposing, essentially building a 6R80 in the 6HP26 case. He still is just a few hours away on good roads, & I've got a spare 6HP26....

Panthro, thanks for the input, but yes, if it can be relatively directly searched on google, i.e. 6r80 input shaft into 6hp26, I've already done it:( I tried many keyword combinations over the last 5 years to see if google can help. But who knows, maybe somebody can think of something I haven't!

I am now in talks with powerbythehour, a coyote swap & 6r80 specialist, to see if they can take my project on. They were a bit reluctant at first, but then they said they'll look into what options there are for this project.

If a 6r80 can indeed be built inside the ZF case, then what remains to be done on the mechanical side is 1. either modify the oem converter to accept the spline for the 6r80 input shaft, or have a custom converter built which phisically fits the flexplate. Any idea who does that? And 2. our output flange is 3 bolt, the 6r80 is 4 bolt; if we can keep the output shaft, all is well, if it also needs to be replaced, then we would need a custom flange, or a custom 2 piece driveshaft. Would hope for the former. Again, does anybody know who can do that?

Eric, could you also ask whether the valvebody can also be swapped? for you it wouldn't matter, as you would use the OEM control integrated into the CAN, but since I would like to divorce the trans from the CAN, and use a usshift controller, the only solution would be to use a 6r80 valvebody & tcu.

In any case, if 6r80 internals can be swapped into the Jag ZF, there could potentially be a market even for stock or mild XJR owners wanting a true bulletproof trans which at 400-500 hp would last forever (I am avoiding the word lifetime for obvious reasons😁)

I'm sorry if I gave the impression, that I have contact with the tech who suggested this, as I do not. However, he shouldn't be hard to locate the town they are in is a small town just big enough to have a dealership, I'd imagine you would get the small town treatment if you ask to speak to the tech. We may make him international. https://www.allstarfordcanton.com/

I've done a bit or research, and from this thread: "Now this lockup clutch is a funny one. It's not an "either-in-or-out" clutch -- it's the latest design where it can be continually slipping, quite deliberately. It's called a 'modulated' clutch, and ZF is not the only maker using this idea. But the clue is just how and when this clutch is made to slip on purpose. It's when it encounters a modest demand for power, not just gliding along on the level, not at full power either, but going up moderate gradients."
That said, does the Ford converter use the same tech? if it does not, and the 6hp26 valve body can control it, the Ford converter would be the one to make work, if performance is the goal. The easiest and best solution I can imagine is an adapter flex-plate. That would be relatively cheap, and easy. it would need the Jag crankshaft bolt pattern, and starter ring, but the ford converter bolt pattern.

Thanks for the digging work! An adapter plate was my first go-to, however when you presented your idea I began favoring that option because:
1. it would keep the exact dimensions of the 6HP if you can keep the output shaft from the ZF, so the driveshaft slips right in
2. it would not require an adapter plate, which I can immagine nobody sells. And seeing the eagerness of every shop in the States to take on my project (please smell the sarcasm), I am pessimistic. Or do you know somebody that makes one? If I use an adapter plate, the length of the trans changes, and I automatically have to have a custom drive shaft - again, who can do that?

What I currently think would be best is to have the OEM converter sent to a custom converter shop (any recommendations?), and have one tailor made so that it fits the jag flexplate, and the 6r80 input shaft. And also crucially, multiple clutches can be used. The stock one lasted a week after rebuild. I see Avos has had the same problem, he mentioned several times he has no lockup left.

Eric, I have had no reply from the dealership... is that the small town treatment you were mentioning was heading my way? :) Do you know somebody that knows somebody who can put in a good word for me? (I also commute to work in a small town, and usually this approach nets better results haha).

I'd check with whoever makes BMW torque converter upgrades, since they had this transmission first. Also might want to contact any shops who do 6R80 torque converters for Mustang. Expect it to not be cheap, especially since these folks will probably be race shops