What does the group think of Zymol?

 

It's a Forum, no Technical or Engineering credentials required.

 

That's why I said "mileage may vary" depending on the "opinion"

When Jaguar openly posts on their own site concerning their recommendations for oil, for example, "Jaguar exclusively recommends Castrol EDGE Professional oil, engineered to perfectly complement our engines and optimise performance. Castrol EDGE Professional is stocked by Jaguar dealers." And, "In Castrol’s variable speed Fluid Strength Test, Castrol EDGE Professional boosted with TITANIUM FST™ gave up to 45% less metal-to-metal contact than a major lubricant competitor’s product. Products representing 61% of our 2012 sales volume were tested." And then you have someone come along and makes assertions that, "Long on words, short on facts" I find that position, simple denial. So, you're welcome to view it any way you may wish.

 

It's a forum, opinions are welcomed and helpful, opinions on opinions generally are not.

I have no idea Box you may be spot on but it's up to the OP to decide not for you to indicate someone's opinion is not worthy of reading. You indicated you thought Mickey was wrong, OK, but then you go off on his prior threads? How does this help the OP's original question?

You have good input Box, no need to get personal.

I should talk!

It's oil, we are never going to agree... it's like talking about tires.

You may go back to your regular programing now I'm done.

 

Sorry Box but I think you go too far.

You seem to be 'pushing' Castrol very hard and certainly give the impression of not being a disinterested party.

For the record, whatever Ford/Jag may 'recommend' they actually specify an oil that meets Ford M2C-913-B, and certainly the Cheltenham (UK) Jag agent, when I had mine serviced there, used Shell, not Castrol.

 

You should really check into this a bit deeper because it's a business relationship between Castrol and Jaguar.






If Castrol had anything special don't you think ALL the rest of the current high tech-low clearance-VVT engines would require Titanium?
Do they?
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The very same liquid titanium package that Castrol purchases and uses is also used in Kendall GT-1, and that is what I actually use in my vehicle. I simply reported what Jaguar stated on their site. Oil technology has made some pretty significant leaps in the last decade. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

I don't argue that Jaguar and Castrol has a relationship, of course they do. They worked together to develop what they are recommending. Reducing wear isn't exclusive to the argument you are making. To argue against using oil that reduces wear in critical areas is really kind of a silly argument. You seem to be confusing the two words "require" and "recommend."

 

I call Bull!!! The BG MOA test is the very best of the "Snake Oil" Salesman's Bag of tricks. As the "Bearing Test" with the torque wrench for precise measurement of the force is very Humorous! to those who have seen this proven, to be a good parlor trick. As I have seen "Chlorine Bleach". Yes Plain old Clorox! pass the same exact test, with flying colors!!! I just don't think I want Chlorine Bleach, in my engine. But by God, It will Pass the Bearing test all day long! They all like to make it look good.
I worked for Honda for several years, and they worked very hard on oil for a lot of years to improve it's quality, and they would take all the Techno talk, and break it down so we non scientists, could understand it. They showed us several of these common ways to seemingly "prove" the additives were worth buying. In the end it came down to a good high quality oil of the correct viscosity matching the ASE certification recommended by the vehicle Manufacturer, was by far, and above the best choice, and cheapest option as Additives were simply added cost!

Jack

 

Chlorinated products could be added as a friction modifier, however, when you subject chlorinated products to use inside the engine, you would produce hydrochloric acid by adding hydrogen, and that's deadly. Not a real smart move. It's obvious you don't have a chemistry background, especially when it comes to the additives used in oils for automotive usage. Your argument sounds real delightful and all, but that is what is BS. Like I said before, take any engine with, as you stated, "good high quality oil of the correct viscosity matching the ASE certification recommended by the vehicle Manufacturer" and then take that same oil out, drop the pan and run the engine with 0 oil pressure, and then see how long it will run before seizure. Do the same thing with a product like BG's MOA and do the same. You'll find your own proof. The greatest advantage to using a product like MOA, is the friction modifiers and the increased TBN.

BG MOA contains 40-70% Shell provided CAS 64742-52-5 (a detergent to increase TBN) and 10-30% extreme antiwear additive TH726 (friction modifier that is part of the ester group) CAS 126104-53-8. It has no snake oil included.

 

I think the confusion is on your side.
You don't understand that a marketing relationship totally invalidates any so called "technical" reasons.

This just human nature and business. It can't be any other way.

Have you heard the following?

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

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Absolute pure unadulterated bovine scatology. The rhetoric you want folks to believe is that by reason Jaguar partners with Castrol, that any claim Castrol makes or Jaguar makes is invalidated by the reason of the partnership? That's ignorance.

 

On the other hand, they may well (and I think do) make false claims or do other bad things e.g. try to prevent you having information you'd expect to have, to try to protect their cosy relationship to the detriment of customers.

They do things like trying to hide oil specs so you can't just get some cheaper or more convenient oil. They do things like trying to lock you out of diagnostic tools except at huge expense. Etc.

 

That's what the MSDS is about.

 

Wow. Seems I really opened a can of worms. But, I do gleen from everyone's opinion to, use a quality oil of the correct viscosity as determined by the car manufacturer and even upper shelf additives like BG MOA are added cost. I thank everyone for their input. I do buy into the "no STP", and understand the reasoning. Thanks all !

 

Let's keep it friendly, everyone.

For the record, I have had tremendous success over the years using CD2 Engine Oil Detergent to quiet noisy/sticking lifters in various high-mileage engines. I have also had great success with a bit of Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer quieting noisy differentials. So no one will ever convince me that one should never ever use an oil additive, or that no oil additive works as claimed. In my experience, some do.

EDIT: More recently, I have had impressive results with Barr's Leaks Oil Seal Engine Oil Burning & Leak Repair. In one case, I used it in a Miata that was belching clouds of smoke at startup due to worn valve stem seals. I used the recommended amount of the Barr's, and after running the engine for 15 minutes to circulate the Barr's, I shut it off and let it cool down. On start-up a few hours later, there was virtually no smoke from the exhaust. The owner was estactic because he was convinced that he needed a head gasket. In another case, a Ford C-Max that was seeping from the crank rear main seal. I replaced the PCV valve and breather housing, changed the oil and added the appropriate amount of Barr's, and six months later the engine-to-bellhousing joint is still dry.

But it is also true that the additives market is filled with "snake oil" marketing so it pays to do your homework.

Cheers,

Don

 

Has anyone tried Zymol? What does the group think of additives that allegedly use nanotechnology to fill pores of the metal?

 

Zymol is a brand name for automotive car care and waxes.

 

Although I've been out of the game for a few years, I spent 30 years working in dealership service and parts departments, 23 of them in management...and about that many selling BG products.

I could probably spend a couple hours on the subject of BG products but it's early and I'm only a couple sips into my first cuppa coffee so I'll just make few random-ish remarks.

BG sells many stand-alone products plus many products that go along with a service process using BG supplied equipment: fuel injector flushing, power steering flushing, and the like. On the whole I would say that BG products perform as advertised....at least the ones that didn't require scientific testing to know if the service was effective or not. Cars that came in with noisy power steering left the shop with quiet power steering, for example.

BG products...at least to the extent and period that I was involved with using them....also has an extremely effective and insidious sales/marketing schemes. Once they "get their hooks into ya" it almost like being indoctrinated into a cult.

I'm perfectly willing to believe, then and now, that BG oil additive isn't snake oil. I'm sure it does 'something'. But, is it necessary? Useful? Is there a real-world tangible benefit that a typical owner could feel, hear, measure, evaluate? My opinion, no. That's why I never got on-board with BG oil additives despite promoting many other BG products.....very much to the chagrin the BG Products.

The world is plum full of cars with 150-200-250k miles, with engines still running like a watch, that have never seen BG products. For that matter, more often than not they've been serviced with utter nonchalance. That is, no concern whatsoever about the products being used. I can cite many examples. For just one, I'll mention my own XJR: I didn't use additives, bought whatever brand oil and filter was on sale that day, and used a 6000 miles interval. When I sold it at 171k miles the engine was smoke-free, noise-free, had great compression, and was running as sweet as a nut. I'm betting the new owner will easily see 250k miles using the same diet.

This is similar to the endless debate over engine oil in general. Lots of people do what makes them feel good but their engines really don't care or notice.

Let's take 50 identical cars, half with BG additive from day one, half without, and drive them 250k-300k miles under similar conditions. Then do compression tests followed by full engine teardowns to measure wear....as a month's pay says that's what will be needed to determine of the additive was effective in a technical sense. And, even then, effective in a technical sense isn't the same as useful in a real world "Have I gained anything meaningful?" sense.

Cheers
DD

 

The biggest gain for those who use such products may be the (quite possibly false) reassurance they feel. They can probably afford the money.

Sort of a placebo effect.