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Some here complain that the suspension isn't as soft or smooth as on older Jags ... may I suggest that it was then (older models), not now, that Jag 'lost the plot' with its larger saloons (sedans) by drifting away from what a saloon Jaguar originally was ... a sports-saloon.
If people think the X350's ride compares badly with a 'Jeeves-Kamikazi' saloon then why didn't they go buy one of those in the first place ?
Nope, sorry, I'm not having that. Jaguar did lose the plot when the Ford-type suspensions started to be used from the S-type onwards, and apart from the air springs, the rest of the suspension is identical to the XJ, XF and XK cars.. It was OK on the XJs right up to the X350 of 2003. This coincided with the mania for larger and larger wheels and low profile tyres. A lot of the sharp-edge type of bumps in the road were always handled well, but from this period they weren't. If this problem was sorted out, like with dampers that has more sensitive valving, then the cars would be pretty well nigh perfect on ride. Offering larger wheels and fatter tyres would help too. I think Jaguar (or Bilstein maybe), have recognised this ride problem because the 2017 32 miles XJ I drove as a courtesy car in late January was pretty good and the suspension is almost identical to my earlier car.
I would agree with you 100% on the wheel size problem, but that's a high frequency bumpiness and easily alleviated by going down to smaller wheels.
What I think you want or indeed have got used to is a Daimler, ie a Daimler with a Jag badge on it.
Daimler, pre-Jag was was not the same style of car as a Jaguar (SP-250 V8 excepted). When Jag acquired Daimler the mistake they made (specialist royal limos apart) was trying to make one style fit all (just like Rolls did with Bentley) and Jag moved their large saloons away from the Jaguar sports-saloon style, ie a driver-enthusiast orientated car, towards a general limo type car which they could dual-badge (Rolls/Bentley !) and offer with different finish options. Or to put it another way, the large saloons became more Jag-badged-Daimlers than Daimler-badged-Jags (which is unfortunately how they are usually seen).
Anyway I've never had any complaints from my passengers about the ride, front or back; in fact the only comments I've had is how smooth the ride is.
And ... when I don't have passengers I do occasionally take the odd long fast (dry and clear !) bend at speed and the way the car stays level and generally feels stable is very impressive.
Last edited by Partick the Cat; 08-02-2018 at 10:29 AM.
Yes, they are very good on handling as I have experienced on the hairpins on roads down to the Mosel and Rhine valleys. The light weight of the car must contribute to this. On long autobahn cruises they are really excellent, but of course the Germans do maintain their roads very well, unlike us !! I think Jaguar have recognised the ride quality issue because when I had an X351 catalogue, I'm sure I saw a "comfort" option somewhere. Lets face it, we're not all going off to track days at Silverstone or Oulton Park every weekend.
Maybe I complain too much, especially considering this is my 2nd car of this model series !! They must be doing something right. The 2nd car has been a whole lot better than the first. I put this down to the X358 being a 2007, and my previous X350 was a 2003. All the issues I had with the previous car are absent, except for one - the short life of the suspension bushes. One on the OS lower rear has wear, but the mechanic at Crewe Jaguar says not a serious issue yet. I think on the old car, I had replaced both lower rears by 70k miles plus the bottom shock bushes, plus an air compressor,
I think part of the stiffer suspension, larger wheel/smaller rubber design must be safety. They can jam in a larger brake rotor and caliper and have large modern cars still able to stop in relatively short distance without feeling like they are about to do a somersault flip. No, we're not going to the track, but then neither are we paying attention in traffic and most drivers need every inch of stopping distance they can. So we stay alive and create a whole new industry, aluminum wheel repair.
The low and ultra-low profile tyre 'fad' is odd. It seems to me to be a case where pure styling and looks have totally won over good engineering performance.
A tyre needs to be able to deform in order to maintain grip, and that requires sidewalls that can 'give', not only laterally but that can actually allow the tread 'footprint' on the road surface to twist by a small angle relative to the line of travel of the wheel; it's called 'slip angle' (which is a very misleading term because no slipping actually takes place). The wider the tyre and the shallower the sidewall the greater the distortion of the sidewalls needed to achieve a given slip angle and the more difficult for the tyre to develop that slip angle.
And it's odd when you think about it, because current Formula 1 tyres, surely the ultimate in getting the last bit of grip out of a tyre and to hell with 'comfort', are certainly not low profile tyres; they look to me to be far more like a 'traditional' x/60-ish. You'd think fashion would try to 'ape' F1, but seemingly not.
Last edited by Partick the Cat; 08-03-2018 at 04:31 AM.
I don't think the wheels are really the issue in my experience. Myself and others have noticed the car switches from super soft suspension to firm at random, which is very annoying.
I run 19" and 20" wheels on mine, which I know the car is capable of riding smoothly on. I had 17" wheels on my first X350, not a fan of the look.
I have had a lot of complements regarding my green Seafrost 2005 XJ8 here in South/Central Texas. Irrespective of those "big" chrome 18" wheels. I thought that they were are little too flashy when I got the car.
This is the wrong forum to ask if our cars are ugly. But here's the first point of absurdity that I'll expound on:
"Because if we agree that the original 1968 XJ can be lauded as the most elegant four door saloon ever – (and I think we can) – X350 stands as the most tepid of re-imaginings."
I wasn't around for the unveiling of the 1968 XJ, but looking back at it, had I not known what era it was from, I'd say it was an 80's design (and that's not a compliment). It doesn't look like the swanky 60s cars, and certainly wouldn't be in the running of "most elegant four door saloon ever" if I was running the pageant.
What made the XJ special wasn't just its exterior looks but the quality of its interiors. XJs used the same wood and leather as the most expensive cars (Bentley, Rolls, Ferarri, Maseratti, Austin Martin etc) of its era. That trend continued right to X300 VDPs. With the X308 interior redesign; they purposely used lower quality leather and wood. But because the design and layout was more modern/polished; hardly anyone complained. The X350 on the other hand is just totally unimaginative on the inside. That is especially true when you compare it to its competition.
What made the XJ special wasn't just its exterior looks but the quality of its interiors. XJs used the same wood and leather as the most expensive cars (Bentley, Rolls, Ferarri, Maseratti, Austin Martin etc) of its era. That trend continued right to X300 VDPs. With the X308 interior redesign; they purposely used lower quality leather and wood. But because the design and layout was more modern/polished; hardly anyone complained. The X350 on the other hand is just totally unimaginative on the inside. That is especially true when you compare it to its competition.
What is the source for the statement "lower quality leather and wood".
The Burl Walnut on my standard XJ6-X358 is all bookmatched, dash, doors, everything.
(as is the dash/airbag cover on the sample photo)
Strangely enough I cringe at some latest Rolls etc with Ash...Oak... whatever. Burl Walnut Is It.
(That Audi doesn't look like Burl Walnut but perhaps a simulation)
I assume the expense of Burl Walnut is why very few S-Types/X-Types have it.
And Connolly Leather Ltd folded (no pun) but were not the only quality leather suppliers.
Last edited by ChrisMills; 08-13-2018 at 12:16 AM.
In spite of my previous comments, there was one aspect of the X350 design Jaguar did botch. Thank goodness for Ebay, I was able to “un-botch” it quite easily.
If I’d done more research at the time, and realised the genuine Jaguar mesh was a little bit more widely spaced than the aftermarket mesh I’d bought, I might have de-botched it even more...
Hey I just visited the famous Hamilton Gardens last week, in my X358 of course. Awesome both!
But I'm sorry to say the botch is the after-market chicken wire. The X358 grill is nothing like chicken wire if you look at it closely it's more like a Bentley. The grill is at least 5mm thick and widely spaced. Chicken wire you can buy at Bunnings hardware stores. :-)
Besides, the standard X350 "egg-crate" grill is the same as on the Series 1 and 2. So to use the word "botch", you also have to "botch" the first 10 years or so of the XJ6. Sir William Lyons would be appalled. Personally I do like the Daimler-style grill, but that hardly makes the others "botched".
What is anathema to me, is if you want it to look like an XJ-R, buy an XJ-R and be done! Cheers. And compliments on the garden!
Last edited by ChrisMills; 08-14-2018 at 10:58 PM.
When I started looking at getting an X350; I originally wanted an XJR. But even that car, the front end looked mis-matched. Long story short, when I saw the x358 redesign in pictures; I was amazed how much cleaner & modern it looks. I am a firm believer that if the original car had the front end look of the x358; it would have sold much better.
BTW, I don't believe the x358 facelift to be perfect either. The fake side vents are stupid and ruin the lines of the car.
So I like the X358 at first, but something seemed off. As time has passed I have solidified my perspective. I don't care for it, and it actually cuased me to see 2007 X350's as the last MY I considered when replacing my 06. I understand why they are liked, my brother loves the X358, but hear me out:
It has the effect of "modernizing" the design, which I read was exactly the intent in an interview with Jaguar design studio head Ian Callum. They did this to hold the line until a fully new design was ready -the X351. My point? Why are you modernizing a classically designed car? The X351 is not "retro" which Merriam-Webster defines as reviving a style. That applies to the Pony Cars, and perhaps the ill conceived Thunderbird of 02-05. The X350 is a continuation styling effort.
What DON'T I like about X358? The trunk plynth. What the hell? They took a curved blade with a wing like shape and replaced it with a solid bar of chrome. Would fit well on any Ford product, but looked "stuck on" just as the widely despised and non functional "Blades" on the front fenders. I actually don't mind body color blades with just the Jaguar lettering strip in chrome. But a full brightwork blade looks exactly like what it is. A stick on, fake ornament not too distant from Buick Portholes.
Now heres where I need to tread lightly, lest I get into a verbal hook out with some folks. The Grill. Firstly I never saw the original grill of the X350 or anything about the front end as "mismatched" though the vanes or insert on the 04-05 being horizontal were not too slick. Also in chrome it DOES loke like a grill "on" the car instead of part of the car. This is why on both X350's I have had, I painted the grill surround body color ala' XJR/Super V8 look.But I LOVE the look once that's done. and also wouldn't mind getting an ultra rare Daimler X350 grill. THAT would stand out and be different.
I have mixed feelings about the lower grill in the bumper. In some regards it works, but from a side view it is way back from the upper grill, and the biggie? I don't like the bumpers without the small chrome blades that sat on the top corners. They look blocky, mis-shaped and brutish, vs. svelte. Mixed feelings. The driving lights... okay, but the horizontal chrome cross hairs not okay. And the upper grill? Swing an a miss to my eye. I like how it ties in the other modern cars they were producing - XF, the aluminum XK, but the badge-in-grill, and the VERY plastic looking mesh killed what was almost a winner. I don't hate it. But, ironically THAT is the item that looks "mismatched" to my eye. The aftermarket ones look better in my minds eye of what "fits" I love that people can mix & match to get the combo that they like.
I have recently added mesh behind the center opening of the STOCK 04-07 lower grill. You hardly see it, but it fits the look and does not look like an add-on, and that was my goal. I photoshopped the idea with a few variations. Went with "behind the crosshairs (looks closest to the last image) and It looks a lot better than the terrible photo editing I tried to get a preview with.
We could go back and forth forever - but I think people should get what they like, and never feel like they have to defend their choice. Just another perspective.
BUT JUST DON'T STAND OUT AS A JAGUAR TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love using the Ford parts bin to fix such a nice car.
Have two nice used high end cars, for less than one econo box.
Are you referencing the X351? I would not say it doesn't look like a Jaguar, I would phrase it as it doesnt look like a traditional or classic Jaguar design. You have the Sir Williams lines, as the founder through the XJ40 and a few interim years of mixed styles, then the Ian Callum Jaguars.
like Chris Bangle, love them or hate them they are what current jaguars look like. Once they dropped the XK pretty much all Jaguars what part send parcel Ian's vision of what a modern Jaguar should be. I mostly like them but like all Jaguar fans I feel nostalgic and wistful when I think of the beautiful lines of Jaguars past. One thing that stands out in my mind is the gracefully sculpted Hood lines as they meet the front lights. Lots of car makers did similar work but William Lyons had it down to a work of art there's no other way to put it.
As much as I like the x351 I have to say I'm a little insulted that they called it an XJ. It would have been great to sell it alongside the x350/X358 as the Jaguar XM or FJ or something similar. Urban legends or Jaguar lore, "XJ" was said to be Experimental Jaguar. XM could have been Modern Jaguar. Or whatever.
since the millennium Jaguar was faced with the issue of what to do with styling. While most manufacturers in the last 60 years develop new bodywork much faster and more often than chassis and platform development, putting new style on old engineering, Jaguar made a world class platform and sheathed it in a classic look. Proof is that the CURRENT XJ rides on the same (though steadily improved) platform as the X350. The earlier post that pointed out sales numbers of X300, X308 before the X350, and considering that the X350 platform is STILL being utilized, somewhat disproves the "Jaguar lost all that development outlay of cash" though the X351 is still a slow seller. ALL Jags are slow sellers, sometimes due to a reputation from 40 years ago that Jaguar cant seem to outrun, or people walking in, falling in love and somehow thinking that a Jaguar purchase is "too emotional" and not practical. So they fawn over let's say an F-Pace. Then go grab a Honda Pilot, patting themselves on the back for being "practical" and not "emotional"
I say anyone who wants to avoid emotion when making car choices DESERVES the bland "cookie cutter" lemmings they will be in the Honda/Toyota/Ford/Buick etc. They also make US stand out more for exclusivity, cause better used pricing on Jags, contribute to the plummeting resale value, but in the end cut into Jaguars ability to survive. Here's to the I-pace giving Tesla the business, if anyone can, that has the goods to deliver.
Sure I miss and love classic Jags. My Brother has a E-type, a Series III XJ, Two Mark IX's, 2 XJS's and an XJ13 Replica that has the goods (2-6 piston calipers on each front corner, a 470 HP 5.3 liter with 6 throttle bodies, and an aluminum chassis that's a racers dream. It's a tribute car more than a replica but 470 hp in a 1800 lb. car is a joyful thing, even if it's not "technically correct" lol.
But think how Jaguar would be doing today if they had kept on building classic XJs, X-types and S-types. They wouldn't even be here, most likely going the way of Saab, or many of the British classics, Jensen, MG, Triumph, Sunbeam, etc.
Plus, Jaguar amazes with special projects such as the continuation builds of the D-type, the E-type lightweights, The all electric E-type Zero, and other beautiful creations. They try to balance historical beauty with modern pragmatism. Now, anyone got a half mil to loan me so I can get one?
Point well taken;
The idea of a full sized car, with classic lines, for the money, to have for a long time, one hopes.
Makes them a used car worth a look at.
The new ones may be more of what was their race oriented heritage in performance.
But now has lost it's distinct appearance, from the other wind tunnel tested cars, till you look at a way to see for sure.
(I M H O)
On the other hand, i have not looked at ANY new cars since 96 when the last one was bought.
Then it was a basic Civic.
So a car like this, for the cash of a used Toyota, or Honda, with some work needed on both.
Makes these my car of choice by far.
Yes. I often mention to folks that a $65k-95k 04-09 X350/X358 can be had usually for a lot LESS than a Camry or Accord. They all have this unsubstantiated opinion that the Jaguar is an instant money pit. Admittedly more expensive to repair than Japanese cars, but not any pricier to maintain than most European marques, Mercedes, VW, Audi (another one with a bad reputation... mostly earned for eye watering repair costs)
What they mis is, the X350 is very reliable, with some issues that you need to be vigilant about, and a handful of minor design/engineering bloopers.
When I had a brain hemorrhage driving to work one fine morning, my Scion tC ended up looking the the car they show teenage drivers to scare them with the physics of speed, friction, mass and metallurgy. While a repeat is unlikely I decided a full size Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, etc would be the best choice. I went Jaguar because I know them pretty well (this is my 4th in 30 years, and my brother has... well, I'll just say way too many)
I was more comfortable with Jaguar because its simpler that the Mercedes. While no modern car is "simple" the Mercedes W220, W221 are insanely complex. Well engineered, constructrd with high end materials, but complex.. Plus for my money I would have had to get a W220 (up to 2005) and probably higher miles on the car.
Jaguar. Such a happy decision. One that feels better as time goes on..
08-02-2018, 09:07 AM
