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The test performed assumes the EGR is in the closed position at the time of connector removal . With the changing heat soak condition accuring to the IAC valve movement as it varies in position during the event or the valve body seal missing would point in that direction unfortunately the IAC valve does not have a internal position sensor to compare the commanded position to the actual sensor position . The odds of your EGR position floating to a heat soak different position is probably nil with the connector off , but then we would wire fixing the valve to the closed position in a different industry .
On the EGR valve your device can see the " EGR_ERR " Parameter ID which is the % error between the commanded position and it's internal position sensor . The value of error through all ranges of the engine operations should stay around 0 % but nothing is perfect as the valve varies through different positions . This would tell you if the EGR is moving as commanded or floating open at the area of the fault .
Warmed up ECU opening up the " pinch " on the 2 pinching tabs in the sockets can also account for not accurate movement of both valves discussed .
Last edited by Lady Penelope; 06-12-2018 at 10:49 PM.
Typically when coils go they spark through to the valve cover. That delivers high voltage to the ground system of the car which makes all the computers go wonky. Dash lights flash doors unlock car dies... etc etc. I have been round and round with coils with 3 xj6's and I have never had good luck with cheap coils. Each time I end up buying the expensive ones in the end. If you must try cheap coils get some KAPON tape and put about 6 layers around the coil to help it not spark through. If it does you will eventually RUIN your magnesium valve cover. However even with KAPON tape they will still eventually spark through. The two most irritating things for me that have caused the most electronic disharmonious weirdness with my XJ6's are coils, and a dying battery. If the voltage is not right all kinds of weird stuff starts happening.
The 1995 and 1996 XJ6's had a smaller battery than the 1997. When I put the larger battery in my 1996 life has been much better.
Steve, thank you for that info. Good advice. I have had 2 x300s. both developed bad coils and did so exactly as you said. They sparked to the valve cover. The thing I can not understand is why one x300 need new coils at about 90k and the other not until almost 200k. Also I too tried the cheap ones. ... mistake. Wound up with OEM high dollar ones in the end.
I've swapped out good OEM and the QYL coils, so that's not the issue, but good advice about coil problems.
Battery is new.
Wasn't able to get up to the indy mechanic this Sunday due to scheduling and a terrible summer cold, but we'll try again next weekend. He's of the mind that it is the ECU, and he plans to swap his son's XJR6 ECU into my car to see if that clears the problem. If so, that's it, if not... we keep looking.
On the Sunday with your car's playdate with the other XJR , might consider swapping coils as a different step and different test run after the ECU swap . Take a soldering gun . Some flux and some sockets and a socket removal tool coming your way . In practice with a preferred solder method you don't want to heat the spring properties of the tabs so you want to have a heat sink to " wick " the heat away from the socket tabs . I designed a removal tool and will test it before sending . I would lend you my original Lucas made in Japan coils as they all passed the Innova 4400 test for whatever that is worth with their 110 k miles . In the real world as the coils warm up on vehicle the test result would be different then cold on a test stand .
With your device you can precisely measure the voltage outside of the battery as the alternator speed comes down and the regulator must adjust to it and maintain at least the 11.4 needed for the ECU . New batteries are suspect any way and you may have a open cell on the new battery that opens up while it's heated up during a run and your car is only getting it's power at that point from the alternator only .
One quick easy test of the open cell is when you exit the car if the shutdown go to sleep sequence is happening as there is no power source ( or good enough current ) to do so with a warmed open cell battery ..
Last edited by Lady Penelope; 06-19-2018 at 09:42 AM.
I am new to this sight. But it has not taken me long to see there is a lot of great info to be had here. I have been out of the repair loop for some time. but I still love to read your post and learn the new techniques that are being used and see innovative ways you come up with to test our Jags. Thanks to you all.
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Dave
Yes, I understand that. I have had several X300s 95 and 96 and still am interested in how you young folks fix them. I love my 2017 XjR but I find I am unable to do much on it. So I come here to remember the good ole days when I could actually understand how to fix-em
Thanks for the reminder..
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Dave
Check out a ELM327 device ( $ 10 ebay / free shipping ) and you may see what your ECU is seeing on it's sensor values and watch it all work together . That way you can save on repair cost and get a better understanding in how the engine regulates as it is the same technology period of the X300 . The digital electronics outside of the engine regulation is more modern termed " multiplex system " and I can find the Jaguar new technician training manual so you will have a better understanding of how it works . How it works is not complicated but the availability of deeper test equipment is . But basic troubleshooting still applies with a basic meter up to a point .
Last edited by Lady Penelope; 06-19-2018 at 09:02 AM.
I can not thank you enough. I will order the device on Ebay. I would love to see what the ECU is seeing...
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Dave
The USB laptop ( no bluetooth WiFi ) device is better in versatility and refresh rate for O2 sensors . PM me and I'll link you to some Youtube videos . Going out for some errands .
On the Sunday with your car's playdate with the other XJR , might consider swapping coils as a different step and different test run after the ECU swap . Take a soldering gun . Some flux and some sockets and a socket removal tool coming your way . In practice with a preferred solder method you don't want to heat the spring properties of the tabs so you want to have a heat sink to " wick " the heat away from the socket tabs . I designed a removal tool and will test it before sending . I would lend you my original Lucas made in Japan coils as they all passed the Innova 4400 test for whatever that is worth with their 110 k miles . In the real world as the coils warm up on vehicle the test result would be different then cold on a test stand .
With your device you can precisely measure the voltage outside of the battery as the alternator speed comes down and the regulator must adjust to it and maintain at least the 11.4 needed for the ECU . New batteries are suspect any way and you may have a open cell on the new battery that opens up while it's heated up during a run and your car is only getting it's power at that point from the alternator only .
One quick easy test of the open cell is when you exit the car if the shutdown go to sleep sequence is happening as there is no power source ( or good enough current ) to do so with a warmed open cell battery ..
I think my coils are fine. Changing from OEM to the QYL coils didn't make any difference, and I didn't have any other typical coil symptoms like the dash or under hood coil epoxy fireworks (in the dark).
I think the battery is good too as I don't have any power issues before/during/after related to the car stalling at idle. Heck the CD changer keeps playing as I coast and restart
When you say "With your device you can precisely measure the voltage outside of the battery"... what are you referring to?
.
Last edited by al_roethlisberger; 06-19-2018 at 05:43 PM.
I think you have a live data reader somewhat like a ELM327 which can be configured to see a lot of things beyond a stand alone live data reader .
Good observation on the battery during the stalling fault .
I have a used ECU connector in hand and I could not see the 4 other connectors requested earlier on a 95 donor can . Will salvage some good pin grip strength sockets as a try before some new ones arrive .
Last edited by Lady Penelope; 06-19-2018 at 07:12 PM.
Installed a new World Car Parts MAF last night. I initially thought it may have cured the problem as it took me almost an hour of highway and lots of city start/stop test driving before I could get the car to die, but it eventually did and exhibited its now traditional behavior. My son also drove the car today and it acted up right away. I have to attribute that to it being relatively cool last night when I first changed the MAF, and today it was quite hot outside.
One thing that was an interesting anomaly was that when I first installed the new MAF and started the car, the "trac fail" and "ABS" warning lights lit up. This has never happened before. I drove around the block to see if it might clear, but it did not. So I stopped, shut off the car, then restarted and the warning lights never came back. Odd.
Of course I haven't been driving the car much over these last 8 months since the problems started, and it has sat barely started or driven in the last couple months at all. So maybe it was just symptomatic of having been sitting and not driven?
...or is this another clue?
The traction control system will close the throttle if it detects wheel spin. Could it be malfunctioning? I guess one test would be to disable traction control or perhaps unplug the traction control unit and drive around. I'll see and report.
I also plan to change my transmission fluid this weekend. There is a TSB about low fluid causing stalls, and I'm having a tremendously hard time validating my fluid level due to the nearly 5 year old now transparent "Royal Purple" fluid the previous owner used. So there is a slight chance it is low, or maybe just worn? No harm in changing the fluid and verifying the level. So that's on the list.
A local X300 owner had a stalling issue on idle and disconnected the traction control cable somehow without me knowing exactly what he did . The car ended up stolen to be able to follow up with .
What I found with mine on the bottom of the traction control actuator was the 2 wires coming out of the actuator cylinder had the insulation bottom deteriorated and maybe causing a problem . With the traction control turned off you may or may not notice a difference .Someday I will disassemble the actuator and repair the wiring .
If you remove the cable from the bellcrank on the top of the actuator you can end up with a mess unless you carefully observe how the cable goes together but a top position sensor connector could help . A dragging cable lube couldn't hurt .The top sensor is just like the TPS
The traction control and antiskid light will not come on until 3 faults are detected , but the traction control in use will come on every time it is actuated . in repairing the system the fault light will not extinguish until you reach 12.5 MPH . This can throw you off in troubleshooting .
Last edited by Lady Penelope; 07-07-2018 at 01:24 AM.
Since you bring up the "TPS-like" sensor on top of the traction control actuator, I've often wondered if that sensor is the same part as the actual TPS?
The TPS for both the NA and SC X300 is JLM12074
The part number for the entire traction control actuator is MNA5930AA but Jaguar Classic Parts only shows the entire actuator as a single part, with no listing for the sensor. You can see the "TPS like" sensor on top of the traction control actuator in the photo below: And BTW the MNA5930AA traction control actuator is no longer available new. Good news is that there is plenty of information in this forum on how to repair them. I guess the only way to tell would be to get a good look at both the TPS and the "TPS like" sensor and see if they have part numbers embossed on them that match. Might be an interesting discovery if so. A quick look at some photos of both the TPS and the one on the actuator has them looking a little different though.
Last edited by al_roethlisberger; 07-07-2018 at 11:46 AM.
Another curiosity is that when the car stalls, it seems to do so more often when stopping/idling on a downhill slope, nose down. I know it doesn't always stall only on downhill slopes as I've had it stall in my driveway, but it does seem more often. So this again makes me wonder if just coincidence, or maybe "fluid" (e.g. transmission) related.
Another curiosity is that when the car stalls, it seems to do so more often when stopping/idling on a downhill slope, nose down. I know it doesn't always stall only on downhill slopes as I've had it stall in my driveway, but it does seem more often. So this again makes me wonder if just coincidence, or maybe "fluid" (e.g. transmission) related.
When this happened, how full was the fuel tank? I recently experienced a few occasions of engine stalling at traffic lights, which rarely happened before. IDS returned DTC P0443 "Evaporative Emission Control System Purge Control Valve Circuit Malfunction Bank 1". I conducted a research online and found this Jaguar Technical Service Bulletin on X-Type [XT303-03], explaining how variation in fuel tank pressure might cause stalling when there is a leak in the Purge valve, engine vaccum and/or when the ECU fails to make the necessary correction. Degenerated air hoses and a failed purge valve are the possible culprits. All these sound reasonable to me, but may not be the cause of your problem.
Thanks for the tip, and yep that's on my list too. I have a new purge (under hood) and evap (under car) valve, just need to fit them. The fuel level has varied.
BTW, relating to my earlier comment about TPS similarities, I compared the throttle body TPS and the "TPS like" sensor on top of the traction control, and they are significantly different.
I tried disabling traction control during some of the events, but it didn't make any difference.
What found on mine was the EVAP ( ? ) ( or the one behind the left headlight ) hose coming out from under the intake manifold port was completely missing .
Last edited by Lady Penelope; 07-14-2018 at 03:30 PM.
06-12-2018, 10:38 PM
Take a soldering gun . Some flux and some sockets and a socket removal tool coming your way . In practice with a preferred solder method you don't want to heat the spring properties of the tabs so you want to have a heat sink to " wick " the heat away from the socket tabs . I designed a removal tool and will test it before sending . I would lend you my original Lucas made in Japan coils as they all passed the Innova 4400 test for whatever that is worth with their 110 k miles . In the real world as the coils warm up on vehicle the test result would be different then cold on a test stand .
