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Hi Everyone! I haven't posted in a while.. I love my 97 xj6L. Have had a leak for a bit. Saw it up on the rack recently on an oil change and differential needs some work. I was told by my mechanic it could be 16 hours of labor plus gaskets/seals etc.. YIKES!! So, of course, I came to the Forum and began reading up on other comments. The tech pointed out a leak here and there and I saw it but when I heard that it was extremely labor intensive to get at the differential and that they would lay it out on a table, take it apart, clean it put a new seal and then reassemble the car it sounded horrific. I always thought I asked my mechanic's shop if they charged labor according to the "book" or on time spent and the quote I got was based on the published book. I trust my mechanic but after reading so many other suggestions I wonder if I should take it for a second opinion? Any suggestions on this folks.. really would appreciate it..
Hi Everyone! I haven't posted in a while.. I love my 97 xj6L. Have had a leak for a bit. Saw it up on the rack recently on an oil change and differential needs some work. I was told by my mechanic it could be 16 hours of labor plus gaskets/seals etc.. YIKES!! So, of course, I came to the Forum and began reading up on other comments. The tech pointed out a leak here and there and I saw it but when I heard that it was extremely labor intensive to get at the differential and that they would lay it out on a table, take it apart, clean it put a new seal and then reassemble the car it sounded horrific.
16 hours to remove, overhaul, and reinstall the differential doesn't sound too bad. Maybe not a bargain, but not gouging, either, IMHO
I always thought I asked my mechanic's shop if they charged labor according to the "book" or on time spent and the quote I got was based on the published book.
That's the norm
I trust my mechanic but after reading so many other suggestions I wonder if I should take it for a second opinion? Any suggestions on this folks.. really would appreciate it..
Many shops will install an already-overhauled differential from an outside supplier such as Coventry West.
I would get a second opinion and/or explore other options, yes. But at todays shop rates and (retail) parts prices, $2200 is probably realistic
I have a slight leak in one of the output shafts on my XJ6. I need to add a couple ounces every 3-5K mi. You need to determine how much you are losing because it may not be worth the expense.
Hi, yes I agree with rj237 , gearbox's and diffs can drip for thousands of miles without getting noticeable worse , but don't take that for granted, keep an eye on it, in case that odd drip turns into a puddle. I've got a post on this forum about cutting a hole in the forward wall of the spare tyre well which will enable you to check/ top up the diff without getting under the car.
Also, not sure of the degree of your leakage or from which seal, but there have been several discussions about the differential breather being plugged which can cause minor leaks. Some have said their slow leaks/seeps have ceased once the breather was cleaned.
As I recall the only real caveat was that none of threads provided a definitive and easy way to clean the breather while the differential was still installed. But perhaps that info is there and my recollection is foggy. If the technique to clean the breather while the differential is still in the car and sealed up is clarified somewhere in those threads, it might be worth highlighting.
Not sure if this applies to your situation, but it might be worth looking into and searching some of the threads here.
I did see the thread on cleaning the breather.. I will mention it to my mechanic.. he just loves it when I bring him these ideas.. I can see the eyes rolling in his head now but I will ask and also see if there are other options..
Originally Posted by al_roethlisberger
Also, not sure of the degree of your leakage or from which seal, but there have been several discussions about the differential breather being plugged which can cause minor leaks. Some have said their slow leaks/seeps have ceased once the breather was cleaned.
As I recall the only real caveat was that none of threads provided a definitive and easy way to clean the breather while the differential was still installed. But perhaps that info is there and my recollection is foggy. If the technique to clean the breather while the differential is still in the car and sealed up is clarified somewhere in those threads, it might be worth highlighting.
Not sure if this applies to your situation, but it might be worth looking into and searching some of the threads here.
The big question is, Are you able to drop the IRS yourself and do you have tools, floor jack, camera, A helper ? This could save you a ton of money doing this part of of the job yourself! Sending the diff to a vendor for exchange, (Coventry, for example). This price you got can only go up because other parts you might need (bush's, shocks, springs,whatever) .Once the IRS is "on the ground" dismantling is pretty much straight forward.
Another big question, at least IMO is how rusty is the underneath of the car. This could be the deciding factor for ME, along with is this cars overall $value$ worth it?
Lawrence
I had a leak at the "O" rings on one side of the housing where the half shaft comes out. The reason for the leak was the diff was not venting and building up pressure. The vent is plugged and very difficult to remove. So I didn't. Every time I have it on a rack I go in and twist the vent a bunch of times. Sprayed some WD40 at the base of the vent hoping some would squirt up inside. Doing this every 6 months or so has stopped the leak. No more leak. If it ever starts up again I will cut the outside cover off the vent and connect a flex hose with a filter in the other end. Then position the hose well above the diff.
The vent is the black thingy on the right side of the diff back cover. You can twist the outside of what you see and clear any blockage. Worked for me.
Your mech knows what is wrong. He is just taking you for a $2200 screwing.
I had a leak at the "O" rings on one side of the housing where the half shaft comes out. The reason for the leak was the diff was not venting and building up pressure. The vent is plugged and very difficult to remove. So I didn't. Every time I have it on a rack I go in and twist the vent a bunch of times. Sprayed some WD40 at the base of the vent hoping some would squirt up inside. Doing this every 6 months or so has stopped the leak. No more leak. If it ever starts up again I will cut the outside cover off the vent and connect a flex hose with a filter in the other end. Then position the hose well above the diff.
The vent is the black thingy on the right side of the diff back cover. You can twist the outside of what you see and clear any blockage. Worked for me.
Your mech knows what is wrong. He is just taking you for a $2200 screwing.
Not knocking WD-40 necessarily (although it is known to attract and cling to dirt), but would there be a better suggestion for spraying up into the vent to clean it out?
My memory isn't great, but I thought I removed the vent to clean it.
Inside of the vent is not accessible. The cover of the vent is snapped on and cannot be removed with out breaking it. At least that was the result one member had. Rotating the cover seems to keep it from plugging. The WD40 is just something might help. I don't normally use it just rotating the cover that is snapped on over the vent tube seems to do it.
My memory isn't great, but I thought I removed the vent to clean it.
Forgot one other thing. The vent is a tube with a 90 deg bend in it inside the the diff. To remove the vent you have to take the back cover off the diff. You don't want to do that. Just rotate the vent cover a bunch of times and it seems to work.
I wonder if I should take it for a second opinion?
Hi Jagicon,
You've received some excellent advice so far. Resolving this issue should not cost $2,200 even if the entire IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) needs to be dropped. I can do that in a few hours all by myself in my driveway, working at a methodical pace. With a lift it would be faster.
A second opinion from a knowledgeable mechanic might not be a waste of time, but if you're willing to get a little dirty, there are definitely a few things you can do yourself.
Cleaning the vent may be an easy first step. If you can get a can of brake cleaner spray up in there with the small red tube affixed to the nozzle, you may be able to feed it up to the edge of the vent cover closest to the diff cover and use several bursts to clear some of the gunk, rotating the cover between bursts. If any brake fluid makes it into the diff it will evaporate or boil off through the vent in short order and do no harm to the gear oil in the diff. To answer Al's question, I don't think WD40 would attract dust to any greater degree than the oily fumes from inside the diff, but brake cleaner is a more effective solvent and evaporates with zero residue unlike WD40.
Here's a photo of the rear cover of the diff in our '93 which is probably similar to yours. The vent cover is the black plastic cylinder at the upper right in the left image. The vent cover will rotate, but as you can see, on the inside the right angle section is prevented from rotating by a cast rib in the cover:
The next very important step (or maybe the first step!) is to check the level of gear oil in the diff and top it up if necessary to avoid damage to the internal components.
Next, use the brake cleaner spray to clean away all the gunk and oil that has accumulated on the outside of the diff, especially at the driveshaft, each output shaft and around the rear cover.
Once those steps are taken, you can drive the car for a few days or a week and then check for leaks. If you don't see any, check again in another week. Cleaning the vent may have resolved your issue.
If you do find one or more leaks, you'll probably be able to easily tell where the oil is coming from. Leaks from the output shaft seals are the most common and are easy to resolve with new bearings and seals, which can be replaced with the diff in place.
If your pinion oil seal is leaking, it is possible to replace it with the differential in situ by disconnecting the driveshaft and marking the position of the pinion nut before it is loosened so it can be returned to the proper preload. But if there is any play in the pinion bearings replacing them requires removal of the diff.
Leaks around the rear cover are probably the least common in my experience. Theoretically, it may be possible to remove the rear cover without completely dropping the IRS, but the large diff mounting studs pass through the cover and must be removed before the cover will come off. The studs are installed with high-strength thread locker and torqued to 200 lb. ft., so getting them out while working under the car would be no fun at all. I personally think it would be easier to drop the IRS. Here's the setup I used to remove the studs on the diff of our '93, which is the same GKN Salisbury unit used in many X300s. The mounting studs are too long for any standard deep socket so I wasn't able to use an air impact gun. The need to use an extra wrench for leverage will give you an idea of how difficult it was to loosen the studs:
I hope cleaning the vent is all you need, or worst case one or both output shaft seals.
You've received some excellent advice so far. Resolving this issue should not cost $2,200 even if the entire IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) needs to be dropped. I can do that in a few hours all by myself in my driveway, working at a methodical pace. With a lift it would be faster.
A second opinion from a knowledgeable mechanic might not be a waste of time, but if you're willing to get a little dirty, there are definitely a few things you can do yourself.
Cleaning the vent may be an easy first step. If you can get a can of brake cleaner spray up in there with the small red tube affixed to the nozzle, you may be able to feed it up to the edge of the vent cover closest to the diff cover and use several bursts to clear some of the gunk, rotating the cover between bursts. If any brake fluid makes it into the diff it will evaporate or boil off through the vent in short order and do no harm to the gear oil in the diff. To answer Al's question, I don't think WD40 would attract dust to any greater degree than the oily fumes from inside the diff, but brake cleaner is a more effective solvent and evaporates with zero residue unlike WD40.
Here's a photo of the rear cover of the diff in our '93 which is probably similar to yours. The vent cover is the black plastic cylinder at the upper right in the left image. The vent cover will rotate, but as you can see, on the inside the right angle section is prevented from rotating by a cast rib in the cover:
The next very important step (or maybe the first step!) is to check the level of gear oil in the diff and top it up if necessary to avoid damage to the internal components.
Next, use the brake cleaner spray to clean away all the gunk and oil that has accumulated on the outside of the diff, especially at the driveshaft, each output shaft and around the rear cover.
Once those steps are taken, you can drive the car for a few days or a week and then check for leaks. If you don't see any, check again in another week. Cleaning the vent may have resolved your issue.
If you do find one or more leaks, you'll probably be able to easily tell where the oil is coming from. Leaks from the output shaft seals are the most common and are easy to resolve with new bearings and seals, which can be replaced with the diff in place.
If your pinion oil seal is leaking, it is possible to replace it with the differential in situ by disconnecting the driveshaft and marking the position of the pinion nut before it is loosened so it can be returned to the proper preload. But if there is any play in the pinion bearings replacing them requires removal of the diff.
Leaks around the rear cover are probably the least common in my experience. Theoretically, it may be possible to remove the rear cover without completely dropping the IRS, but the large diff mounting studs pass through the cover and must be removed before the cover will come off. The studs are installed with high-strength thread locker and torqued to 200 lb. ft., so getting them out while working under the car would be no fun at all. I personally think it would be easier to drop the IRS. Here's the setup I used to remove the studs on the diff of our '93, which is the same GKN Salisbury unit used in many X300s. The mounting studs are too long for any standard deep socket so I wasn't able to use an air impact gun. The need to use an extra wrench for leverage will give you an idea of how difficult it was to loosen the studs:
I hope cleaning the vent is all you need, or worst case one or both output shaft seals.
Please keep us informed.
Cheers,
Don
Ditto!!! I had good luck just rotating the outer cover and using brake cleaner at the base of the cover may do it. It has worked for me for several years. That is until now when I brag on my success.
Leaks around the rear cover are probably the least common in my experience. Theoretically, it may be possible to remove the rear cover without completely dropping the IRS, but the large diff mounting studs pass through the cover and must be removed before the cover will come off. The studs are installed with high-strength thread locker and torqued to 200 lb. ft., so getting them out while working under the car would be no fun at all. I personally think it would be easier to drop the IRS. Here's the setup I used to remove the studs on the diff of our '93, which is the same GKN Salisbury unit used in many X300s. The mounting studs are too long for any standard deep socket so I wasn't able to use an air impact gun. The need to use an extra wrench for leverage will give you an idea of how difficult it was to loosen the studs:
Hmmm ... guess I should have removed the studs before
removing the diff from the a-frame. Live and learn
Hmmm ... guess I should have removed the studs before removing the diff from the a-frame. Live and learn
Well, I had to learn the hard way too. I first tried removing the studs with the diff sitting free on the bench, and for the first couple of tries I nearly rolled the diff onto the floor.
Then I had the idea that if I reattached the diff to the A-frame I could use it to clamp the assembly to my saw table, which worked out well. There are just four screws that secure the frame to the underside of the diff, and I just tightened them with a socket by hand.
One of the studs broke free after the initial large amount of force, but the other stud must have had an extra dose of high-strength thread locker because it took lots of force to turn it for nearly the entire length of the thread. It was no fun at all. I had purchased a large ratcheting box-end wrench/ring spanner specifically for this job, and I was really glad I did. Repositioning a fixed wrench for every turn would have gotten old fast.
Was the threadlocker the equivalent of red loctite?
That's the "permanent" flavour. Loctite says to warm it up to break free.
I believe it was. IIRC the Jaguar specification is for a Hylomar product so I wasn't sure how it compared to the Loctite product line. I considered heating the studs with a torch, but since I wasn't absolutely certain the new studs I had purchased would fit properly until I had one of the original studs out for comparison, I didn't want to risk altering the temper of the original studs in case they had been heat treated for strength. Chances are good that with all the metal of the diff attached to the studs as a heat sink it would have been difficult to get the studs hot enough to harm them, but since this was my first and only diff rebuild (and hopefully the last!), I was being cautious.
07-15-2016, 11:18 AM
Differential leak quote $2200 !!
Something better than WD-40?
