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-   XJ XJ6 / XJR6 ( X300 ) (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj-xj6-xjr6-x300-26/)
-   -   X300 3.2L running poor (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj-xj6-xjr6-x300-26/x300-3-2l-running-poor-214411/)

jiv 02-26-2019 08:06 AM

X300 3.2L running poor
 
Hello,

my x300 runs very poor. Id idles bad and its shaking on acceleration. It didnt stall but it has not the power like its meant to be plus its louder.

Please excuse my bad english, im from Germany.

Its a: Jaguar X300 3.2L straight six 1997 it has a LPG conversion, but i didnt use it, when i buyed the car it was allready in, used it for 6 month, but it runs very moor poorly on LPG.


What have been done:

- changed spark plugs: Champion RC9YCC
- oilchange
- compression is fine on every cylinder
- changed coil pack: Lucas Made in Japan
- crank position sensor changed
- airflow meter changed
- throttlebody cleaned
- colant temp sensor changed
- Lambda Sensor changed (i think its calles O2 in english, the two sensors in the exhaust)
- new battery


Im done didnt know what to do from now. It didnt throw any codes even if i unplug something it didnt try to throw a code.

I try to upload videos, hope it works.

https://youtu.be/VdLScH25kqw

Cold start and the air pump is running

https://youtu.be/02IEbOMQikg

After the air pump shut off.

https://youtu.be/49haxbDIVtc

After about a 20minute ride


Maybe u heave a good Idea.

Best regards
Frederik

Lady Penelope 02-26-2019 10:17 AM

Your You Tube videos do work

Researching your car issues , I'll be back

Video links that do work :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdLScH25kqw&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02IE...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49haxbDIVtc&feature=youtu.be

Lady Penelope 02-26-2019 03:27 PM

Is your concern the sound , something is banging like the valve section or a oil pump

t's not a rattle like a un tensioned timing chain

Or a engine response issue ?

b1mcp 02-26-2019 05:34 PM

Hi Frederik

You're English is good, don't worry about that.

I might be missing something but I watched the videos and it sounds OK to me. Certainly nothing I could hear that would aid in diagnostics. I can't detect any misfire. You may need to be more specific with a description of the problem you have.

Vee 02-26-2019 07:23 PM

You seem to have hit the big ones:
1. You replaced all 6 coils with Made In Japan ones
2. You replaced all spark plugs. (You sure they aren’t supposed to be RC12YCC? They were changed for the 4.0 engine in a TSB)
3. You replaced the MAF sensor.
4. You replaced both oxygen sensors.

The only sensor that could still pose a problem is the Coolant Temperature Sensor. Inexpensive.

I can’t really hear your issue, but I would love to know what your long term fuel trims are. Can you plug into your OBD2 port and see if you have any stored codes?

jiv 02-27-2019 12:31 AM


Originally Posted by Lady Penelope (Post 2032808)
Is your concern the sound , something is banging like the valve section or a oil pump

t's not a rattle like a un tensioned timing chain

Or a engine response issue ?

Thanks for all the replies, yeah the sound is pretty loud but i wouldnt mind if thats the only problem. Oilpressur is allright. Valves seems like a pretty expensive Job.

Mostly its the loss of power, its like someone holds the car down a bit. Its not missfiring constantly its sometimes. When it stands and i put a hand on the engine its like sometimes theres a hit. Like every 3-4 seconds.

When you sit inside the car and standing in P oder D or N it the same. Its shaking every 3-4 Seconds like its misses cylinder sometimes. Sometimes its worse its shakes for like 10 seconds constantly and the it calms down and then its like normale 3-4 sec hit.

I can try to record an OBD Drive with "torque". I first have to look how i can record it.

The spark plugs are correct, this is a 3.2L for the 4.0L you neee the other champions you have named.

Thank you
Frederik


b1mcp 02-27-2019 04:20 AM

Can you provide more background information.

Was the issue present before you replaced all of those parts, and has it remained the same throughout?

Dis the issue develop during your ownership of the car or did you buy it with the problem?

If the issue started during your ownership, did it start suddenly or gradually and get worse?

What MAF sensor did you use? Is it an OE unit or a cheap ebay MAF?


At the moment I am thinking I'm thinking you might have a Fuel Pressure issue. Do you have a means of testing Fuel Pressure?

You really need to get some diagnostic information before throwing more parts at it. As @Vee said get some live data from OBD as a starting point, and some readings from MAF, Temp Sensor etc.



Lady Penelope 02-27-2019 05:25 AM

There is a thing where the electrical connector on the transmission body gets dirty as it communicates through the transmission ECU to the engine ECU things like the it's own transmission rotation speed sensor value

This seems to effect the engine regulation at low RPMs in the gear shifting times or regime

The location of this connector is located on the left rear of the transmission and may be able to get to without jacking the car up

The connector is not a twist off and on but like a air hose that pushes off and on engagement

The transmission on the 3.2 kiter should be a ZF4HP22 and not a 24 used on the 4.0 liter version

The difference between the 22 and 24 is ...........

Also to look at is the big ground wire from the starter / engine block mounting bolt to the car frame , this causes many problems in engine regulation . Best worked on from the bottom side . 15mm socket on the starter bolt and 8 or 10 mm on the car frame bolt . put some light bulb grease on the car frame surface after wire brushing it clean

Editing

On your Torque device the items to look for are :

MAF - at idle should be about 3.5 grams / second and this value can be off by a multiplication factor of 10 because of a ELM - 327 device's software error

TPS - at the idle mechanical stop will read around 11 % and never 0 % like you would think . Watch for a " smooth " increase as you " slowly " increase throttle opening

RPM

Short term fuel trim or STFT - This will be around 8.0 % with a cold engine before it goes to a target value of 0.0 % after the ECU goes to " closed loop " mode dependent on the ECT reaching a certain temperature . This target value of 0.0 will try to stay 0.0 as your throttle up the engine

ECT - watch for a climb in temperature

Vee 02-27-2019 05:46 AM

If you have the torque app, I'd like to know:
1. What is the LTFT (Long Term Fuel Trim) on both banks.
2. I'd like to know what the coolant temperature is as well, although I think there is a sensor and a sender, so this might not be helpful.
3. See if you can tell me what the MAF is doing as you're driving. Where is it at idle and what happens to it while driving.

Thanks.

jiv 02-27-2019 06:25 AM


Originally Posted by b1mcp (Post 2033025)
Can you provide more background information.

Was the issue present before you replaced all of those parts, and has it remained the same throughout?

Dis the issue develop during your ownership of the car or did you buy it with the problem?

If the issue started during your ownership, did it start suddenly or gradually and get worse?

What MAF sensor did you use? Is it an OE unit or a cheap ebay MAF?


At the moment I am thinking I'm thinking you might have a Fuel Pressure issue. Do you have a means of testing Fuel Pressure?

You really need to get some diagnostic information before throwing more parts at it. As @Vee said get some live data from OBD as a starting point, and some readings from MAF, Temp Sensor etc.

Hi,

so when i buyed the car it runs like a dream, for a while, the problems started about 3 month ago.
The problems got worse, first it was just like a little shaking on acceleration between 70-90km per hour, so i changed the MAF, with a used unit, it worked.
Then it get worse again so i buyed more used MAFs, in germany i never found a new original MAF, only used ones, so i have to stay with them, but i didnt think that every one of them are broken.

Now i changed coil packs, with the made in japan Lucas Brand, all six, problem was better.
Then get worse again.

Then i changed every other listed part.

But it didnt do anything for the engine. So maybe its damaged or something like this, but i dont know.
I can go to a shop and let them check the fuel pressure. Maybe i can do this next week, most shops are pretty busy right now.

Maybe it gets some air after the MAF, but i dont know how to check this. Beacause when i simulate it by taking off the little tube after the MAF that goes to the valve cover, it would suck some air in it... but the engine dont do anything when i do this.

So I will check the Fuel Pressure and let them do a compression test again, but i can get that results just next week.

Until then i will try to setup my torque app and get some readings.

Im very thankfull for everyone who is helping. Great community.


Lady Penelope 02-27-2019 06:59 AM

There was a suggestion by Vee to slightly twist the pins / blades on the MAF connector to make a better connection

With a volt meter to MAF should read 1.2 volts DC at idle with the MAF connector installed so the MAF is powered up by the ECU controlled relay

This 1.2 volt DC value will most likely be slightly different on the 3.2 liter version

This will show the MAF is " alive " but not give a indication of accuracy

The 1.2 volt should climb up during throttle up

The 1.2 volts should be on the middle Green / Pink wire and the 13.5 volts should be on the Black / Green wire

The MAF gets it's power from the ECU controlled relay and can be swapped with the headlights or fog relay

The relay may not be fully opening back up intermittently but the power contact points may be pitted causing shortfalls in proper current flow

This relay also powers the fuel injectors and the ECU provides the timed grounds

This relay also brings power back into certain sections of the ECU as 2nd power other then the 1st power from the fuse X

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...cad9cd900b.png

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b5077b990a.png

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...941e965874.png

jiv 02-27-2019 10:04 AM

Hi Lady P.

thank you very much, i will try to look for it.

i found a shop that could do a compression test today...
Cylinders have between 8,5bar and 9,5bar (123psi to 137psi, thats what the googleconverter says)

They can check the fuel pressure next week.

Best regards
Frederik

Vee 02-27-2019 10:26 AM

OK, let's do a simple vacuum check test.

Disconnect the MAF from the filter cleaner and wrap the MAF opening with plastic wrap, so it's air tight. You can reconnect it if you want at this point, so that the plastic is held in place. We want to seal off the intake from just after the MAF. Disconnect the hose from either the camcover or the intake elbow (preferably from the camcover first). Take a cigar, cigarette, or whatever, light it, take a puff and blow it into the hose you disconnected. Keep blowing smoke, and blocking the hose with your finger while drawing another puff. If you are taking the hose off from the camcover, you should be able to blow in about three breaths of smoke. After that, you either cannot push anymore air into the system and you should be able to find a spot where smoke is leeching out. It will be difficult to notice if it's coming out of the intake manifold gasket, but try to see if you can see any smoke coming out. The other common failure point is at the idle air control valve (IACV). A vaccum leak at my intake gasket caused me some serious headaches until a mechanic finally found it! (I don't believe I ever tried this smoke test back then)

If you blow from the intake elbow, then you're testing the gaskets around the camcover and spark plugs for leaks. While youre there, make sure none of the spark plug wells have filled with oil or water? A failing spark plug gasket can also cause these problems, but you'll know if there's a problem when the cylinders are oily.

Other than that, please make sure your battery is showing 14v through the torque app. A dying battery also causes problems, a good indicator is usually when your power locks start to act up.

Please report back on the LTFT, Coolant Temp readings, and MAF readings. All of those will help find the problem.

Lady Penelope 02-27-2019 11:55 AM

The factory document for compression test at 300 RPM starter speed is 110 to 117 PSI

This is when someone sent me a copy of the document

My personal opinion is a recheck of the compression is not needed

Fuel pressure with engine not running or at idle is 43 PSI , this 43 goes up 3 or 4 psi on throttle up by a vacuum hose on the back of the fuel pressure regulator

The fuel pressure test point is on the fuel rail only

Look for the short hose to be installed and air leak test the FPR diaphragm , but not too much test pressure as may harm it

This is for liquid gasoline

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...db5ff135a3.png

jiv 02-27-2019 12:20 PM

Wow Guys, i have to thank you all very much, im absolutly flashed with all the help you are providing.

I will try to check all the things in on my weekend, i think i need alot more time to Test these things, im not very used to do this stuff, but i will try my best.

Tomorrow i will check the things with the Torque App and provide some data. Im happy that the compression seems okay so the engine is healthy enough to survive this hard time.

Thank you all very much.
​​​​​

b1mcp 02-27-2019 12:49 PM

One other thing to check at the weekend is the exhaust manifolds. Remove the stainless steel shield and check carefully for cracks in the manifolds.

Small hairline cracks are common and won't cause much of an issue. Major cracks could cause noise and the symptoms you described.

While you're there, also check that there is a good joint between the manifolds and the downpipes.

jiv 02-28-2019 02:14 AM

Hi Guys,

i have done a reading with torque, i uploaded the ride.

What i found out: Yesterday the mechanic told me that one sparkplug was black on cylinder 6 the closest to the windscreen. I looked at the 1500km old ignitioncoil (Lucas Brand) and it has a small crack, i dont know how this can happen after that small amount of kilometers, I will Order a new one... Maybe it will make the problem a little bit better.

https://youtu.be/kuFWdGCXc1c

I will still try all the things you told me on the Weekend.

Lady Penelope 02-28-2019 03:42 AM

Video link that works , for what ever reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFWdGCXc1c&feature=youtu.be

The coil will swell , expend , and crack after it heats up

This will cause arcing to the coil well walls during ignition cycles

Altho the valve cover is electrically isolated by the shouldered plastic mounting bolt washers , it's not 100 %

This pulse will be picked up in the electrical wires of the car which before great effort was made to be a smooth flat line DC signal

More that one electrical signal can exist in a wire at the same time , this is referred to as " dirty electricity "

once the ECU sees this dirty electricity it doesn't function properly

Film observations :

Your coolant temperature is slowly rising

Long term fuel trim on both banks stays at 8 % , is the ECU staying in " open loop " or rich mixture . The rise in temps should trigger a change at a point by design

At 4:20 in your film the short term fuel trim on both banks goes nuts , the target is 0 through all throttle and engine load ranges . This 0 target should not be in error more the the value of 3

You MAF does not make sense even if multipleyed by 10 to account for device software error

With your foot off the pedal does the TPS read 11 %

jiv 02-28-2019 04:01 AM


Originally Posted by Lady Penelope (Post 2033481)
Video link that works , for what ever reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuFW...ature=youtu.be

Thank you, i dont know what i am doing wrong with the Link everytime.

Vee 02-28-2019 05:34 AM

So Bank 2 is a disaster. Your STFT maxes out for much of the video. Guess which bank Coil #6 is? That right! Bank 2.

You seem to have at least 2 problems.

The second problem is your long term trims are both high at 8. You either have a vacuum leak (remember the post I made about blowing smoke into the intake?), or your TPS is bad. If your mechanic friend is so inclined, ask him to make sure there are no vacuum leaks, especially check around the intake manifold. Long term trims indicate that you have a leak somewhere. With the way the oxygen sensors are looking, you could have a major exhaust manifold leak perhaps? Take that shield off and see what things look like before the lambda sensors. No one cares about anything after that, as it won’t affect anything the engine sees. I suspect it’s the intake manifold though, IF there’s a leak.

I had an issue where my long term trims we’re constantly in the 7-10 range, and it was the Throttle Poteniometer Sensor, even though it was bench testing perfectly. It is an expensive part, but as soon as I replaced that, my long term trims dropped to zero.

jiv 03-01-2019 02:39 AM


Originally Posted by Vee (Post 2033520)
So Bank 2 is a disaster. Your STFT maxes out for much of the video. Guess which bank Coil #6 is? That right! Bank 2.

You seem to have at least 2 problems.

The second problem is your long term trims are both high at 8. You either have a vacuum leak (remember the post I made about blowing smoke into the intake?), or your TPS is bad. If your mechanic friend is so inclined, ask him to make sure there are no vacuum leaks, especially check around the intake manifold. Long term trims indicate that you have a leak somewhere. With the way the oxygen sensors are looking, you could have a major exhaust manifold leak perhaps? Take that shield off and see what things look like before the lambda sensors. No one cares about anything after that, as it won’t affect anything the engine sees. I suspect it’s the intake manifold though, IF there’s a leak.

I had an issue where my long term trims we’re constantly in the 7-10 range, and it was the Throttle Poteniometer Sensor, even though it was bench testing perfectly. It is an expensive part, but as soon as I replaced that, my long term trims dropped to zero.

Hey, i will try to checkout everything on the weekend, i think the new coil will arrive today.

But I have a question: didnt a positive ShortFuelTrim means that its to less Fuel in the mixture, so he trys to make it more "rich"?

I dont know, because i changed the coil with the crack today to cylinder one and the coil of cylinder one to cylinder six, so the problem in ShortFuelTrim should go to bank1? But it didnt, everything stayed the same, Bank 1 was "okay" but Bank 2 maxed out.

Best regards
Frederik

Lady Penelope 03-01-2019 03:46 AM

The way the coils work is that power is always sitting or present on the coil and when the ECU provides a timed ground for each individual coil there will be a current flow in the coil to give a spark

The individual ground wire to the ECU is:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...d6fbea2d99.png

Vee 03-01-2019 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by jiv (Post 2033858)
Hey, i will try to checkout everything on the weekend, i think the new coil will arrive today.

But I have a question: didnt a positive ShortFuelTrim means that its to less Fuel in the mixture, so he trys to make it more "rich"?

I dont know, because i changed the coil with the crack today to cylinder one and the coil of cylinder one to cylinder six, so the problem in ShortFuelTrim should go to bank1? But it didnt, everything stayed the same, Bank 1 was "okay" but Bank 2 maxed out.

Best regards
Frederik

Frederik,

Lets work on the problems we know first, and then we can attack what comes next. Let’s not worry about short trims. Those should be constantly shooting above and below zero, constantly adjusting the fuel ratio to get to the perfect ratio. If your torque app is anything like mine, the reader only takes a reading every second or two, so it’s not really the best tool to use to track short trims. You would need something reading the trims constantly and graphing it. Long term trims will move of the car is driven enough.

Id like to see a p0301 code thrown now that you’ve moved the coil over to Cylinder 1, but these cars are not generous with the codes. I’m assuming all your cylinder and coils are dry?

By the way, the MAF appears fine, as does your coolant sensor. The fact that Bank 2 is bad and Bank 1 is better, or at least different....I have to involve the exhaust manifold now. Perhaps the oxygen sensor for Bank 2 is bad? There’s nothing on the intake side that would differentiate between banks, so we won’t find anything catastrophic there.

Heres what we can do. Switch oxygen sensors to see if the LTFT start to go up in Bank 1 and start to move down in Bank 2. That could rule out the oxygen sensor.

I don’t know if you have a catalytic converter, but a blockage there could cause this issue.

Finally a major leak in the exhaust from the Bank 2 exhaust manifold up to the oxygen sensor joint. Anything after that is no longer metered. If you remove the shield covering the exhaust manifold, do you see any massive cracks? Can your mechanic check for leaks on that end?

Lastly, have you checked the ECU plugs for corrosion? This is a common issue and easily resolved no less! When you unplug the red and black harness, your looking for a bright green coating. Spraying those pins down with an electric contact cleaner isn’t going to hurt anything even if you don’t find anything wrong.

I think the biggest clue to chase right now is how Bank 2 is very different from Bank 1.

Ive chased a lot of issues with my engine, and I was able to get it back to a LTFT of zero. I’m not sure if everything I did was necessary (I did throw a lot of parts at the car) but I learned a lot in the process!

jiv 03-01-2019 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by Vee (Post 2033910)

Frederik,

Lets work on the problems we know first, and then we can attack what comes next. Let’s not worry about short trims. Those should be constantly shooting above and below zero, constantly adjusting the fuel ratio to get to the perfect ratio. If your torque app is anything like mine, the reader only takes a reading every second or two, so it’s not really the best tool to use to track short trims. You would need something reading the trims constantly and graphing it. Long term trims will move of the car is driven enough.

Id like to see a p0301 code thrown now that you’ve moved the coil over to Cylinder 1, but these cars are not generous with the codes. I’m assuming all your cylinder and coils are dry?

By the way, the MAF appears fine, as does your coolant sensor. The fact that Bank 2 is bad and Bank 1 is better, or at least different....I have to involve the exhaust manifold now. Perhaps the oxygen sensor for Bank 2 is bad? There’s nothing on the intake side that would differentiate between banks, so we won’t find anything catastrophic there.

Heres what we can do. Switch oxygen sensors to see if the LTFT start to go up in Bank 1 and start to move down in Bank 2. That could rule out the oxygen sensor.

I don’t know if you have a catalytic converter, but a blockage there could cause this issue.

Finally a major leak in the exhaust from the Bank 2 exhaust manifold up to the oxygen sensor joint. Anything after that is no longer metered. If you remove the shield covering the exhaust manifold, do you see any massive cracks? Can your mechanic check for leaks on that end?

Lastly, have you checked the ECU plugs for corrosion? This is a common issue and easily resolved no less! When you unplug the red and black harness, your looking for a bright green coating. Spraying those pins down with an electric contact cleaner isn’t going to hurt anything even if you don’t find anything wrong.

I think the biggest clue to chase right now is how Bank 2 is very different from Bank 1.

Ive chased a lot of issues with my engine, and I was able to get it back to a LTFT of zero. I’m not sure if everything I did was necessary (I did throw a lot of parts at the car) but I learned a lot in the process!

I will take time to do it on saturday, but today i can try to change the oxygen sensors, do i have just to switch the plug or do i have to change them completly, get them out and switch one with the other?

ECU is one of the things on my list i want to look for, but i have to write it down, there is so much i have to look for :) so i have to learn alot while doing it.

Actually there is no code on the car, in my entire ownership she never have put down any Code.
Coil 6 had a bit of oil on the side, but it was just a very very small amount, the hole with the spark plug looks dry, so no oil standing inside of it.

Sorry for me taking such a long time, but most things on a car are very heavy to understand for me, so it takes longer for me to set the things up that you all told me, sorry for that. Thanks for your patience




What i found: in Torque (im not realy familiar with this app, but i start to learn things) i found the Option for the oxygen sensor voltage: bank 1 is jumping up and down and bank 2 is just flat without any reading it not shows anything just 0 volts, i will try to swap them both to see if something happens

b1mcp 03-01-2019 02:17 PM

@Vee suggestion of swapping the Bank 1 and 2 O2 sensors is a good idea. You will need to swap the complete O2 Sensor. You must not just swap the connectors - bad things will happen.

Before you do that though I would do the check for cracks in the exhaust manifold. It is a 5 minute job to remove the cover from the manifold and see if there are any cracks. Start the engine with the cover off and see if there is any noise or leaks coming from the manifolds or joints.

Vee 03-01-2019 02:27 PM

Checking the ECU connector is also easy and quick. It's in the passenger's side footwell. (You guys have the driver on the left side, correct?) Theres a red and black connector to it. Make sure you have a 10mm deep socket to take the ECU off. It's just easier to plug and unplug with the box off and out of the car.

I just want you to unplug it and check for green corrosion and then spray with electrical contact cleaner anyways.


jiv 03-01-2019 02:45 PM

Hi,

Yes we have the Driver side on the left :) ECU stands No.1 on my list I bought electrical connector spray today, i will look closley if there is any corrosion or if something is wet.

Will dismount the heatshield and look for cracks.

I have read about to change the oxygens... My first thought about just change the connectors was pretty dumb *facepalm*

I will let you all know about what i could find tomorrow...

Lady Penelope 03-02-2019 04:15 AM

Back from medical kidney treatment

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...6552d1cd0d.jpg

The way you can look at a coil failing to fully combust the O2 and fuel in a cylinder is .............

The data refresh rate on the bluetooth is slower then the USB cable version

The individual wires for each cylinder That provide the timed ground are :

From the front of the engine

See the pic I made a couple of post ago

Coil 1 - Black 10

Coil 2 - Black 8

Coil 3 - Black 6

Coil 4 - Black 5

Coil 5 - Black 9

Coil 6 - Black 11

Look for corrosion and broken sockets as there are 2 pinching halves in the sockets that must bite the ECU side blades

If needed the connector is cheap to purchase

The O2 sensor feedback signals are in the Red ECU connector

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...0759465056.png

And can be found in several sources :

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...6710-ND/744851 :icon_dance-disco:

Make sure you get the sockets part # X

You don 't have to change the whole connector , just the effected sockets



Editing

jiv 03-02-2019 10:26 AM

Hello Guys,

What i did:

- checked ecu, everythings fine, not a bit of corrosion and the plug grabs every pin very good. I applied a small amount of the connector spray.

- oxygen sensor number 2 is now working, it had a bit of corrosion but with the connector spray it started to work and now both banks are jumping between +7 to -7% short term fuel trim...

- long term fuel trim is still high on +8% and it didnt move

- exhaust manifold has no crack i watched from the top and from the bottom as far as i could looked.

- i have checked the intake side with cigarette and the only thing where smoke comes out was the area on the throttlebody...

- sadly the ignition coil didnt arrived today, maybe on monday

She runs alot better now, but in idle she is slightly rough.

Is there a sealing from the throttlebody to the intake manifold?

Vee 03-02-2019 11:04 AM

Oddly enough, no. There is no gasket or sealant between the throttle body and intake manifold. Strange but true. It’s metal to metal.

It will take awhile for the Long Term Fuel Trim to adjust. The fact that both sides are jumping is excellent progress. I suspect you’ll have LTFT on both sides matching in a week or two.

You mentioned that there was smoke coming from somewhere on the throttle body? When you seal off the MAF, there shouldn’t be smoke coming from anywhere. You did this with everything fully together? The throtttle body butterfly is clean, right?

The idle may smooth out as you drive, but assuming both banks carry a LTFT of 8, we still have a problem on the intake side. Fixing the oxygen sensor will likely eliminate issues on the exhaust side.

You may have a faulty TPS, which is an expensive part.


jiv 03-02-2019 11:52 AM

So i put a plastic bag on the MAF, fixed it with cableties and ducktape.

​​​​Some smoke comes from the throttlebody but its not that much, but as i fixed the oxygen connection i have seen some oil on the back of the valvecover and head. So on cylinder 6.

I forgot to look at this place if smokes comming Out, but from that point was a clear whistle noise when i pushed smoke in the intake! I redid everything now, because i wanted to look closely at this point.

The valvecover gasket throwed alot of smoke out on that, but its heavy to notice if u dont put light directly to it.

I think thats the problem, because cylinder 6 is the worst running.... I will fix that first before thinking about a new TPS i think

Vee 03-02-2019 01:42 PM

Ok, let’s hold off on that TPS until all other possibilities are investigated.

Any smoke would be bad from the throttle body as all other joints should be sealed. That will eventually need to be addressed, but I agree, take care of Cylinder 6 first.


jiv 03-05-2019 06:31 AM

I change the Valvecover Gasket during the next weekend.

The engine runs pretty smooth the last days, not perfect but its acceptable, maybe if i change the gasket it will run a bit better. Long term fuel trims didnt move till now, but i think i will find a solution.

When i cold start the car theres a slight knocking noise, i dont think its from the chains, but it sounds pretty metallic, so i think maybe its a valve or something. Its away when the engine is in normal operating temperature. Can i check this or do i have to take it to a specialist to take it apart?

Vee 03-05-2019 08:55 PM

Make sure you change the six spark plug well gaskets as well. If you're changing the camcover, make sure you get those 6 gaskets as well. You may need the bolt gaskets as well, part NBC2575CA....13 of them!

jiv 03-06-2019 12:19 AM


Originally Posted by Vee (Post 2035867)
Make sure you change the six spark plug well gaskets as well. If you're changing the camcover, make sure you get those 6 gaskets as well. You may need the bolt gaskets as well, part NBC2575CA....13 of them!


​​​​​No problem, thank you Vee, i got all 13 for the bolts, and in Germany they mostly sell a set of valvecover gasket with the spark plug hole gaskets.

I thought its better to change everything together than to open something because I am to lazy and have to open it again.

:)

Paulofvfreitas 05-09-2019 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by jiv (Post 2035569)
I change the Valvecover Gasket during the next weekend.

The engine runs pretty smooth the last days, not perfect but its acceptable, maybe if i change the gasket it will run a bit better. Long term fuel trims didnt move till now, but i think i will find a solution.

When i cold start the car theres a slight knocking noise, i dont think its from the chains, but it sounds pretty metallic, so i think maybe its a valve or something. Its away when the engine is in normal operating temperature. Can i check this or do i have to take it to a specialist to take it apart?

Hey sir, how is this? Been reading this whole thread as this looks a lot like the problem i also have! Have also changed a lot of things with no luck

Mine also does that knock on idle, i hava also noticed it seems cyl6 because when i remove the ignition coil plug nothing happens, changed coils and nothing, weird thing is it sparks and spark plug is burning fine

jiv 05-14-2019 02:03 AM

Hi,

so there was a fault on cylinder 6 one valve was damaged, caused the knocking noise. The car is now off the road, im not totally done with what to do with this beauty, because the cheapest workshop i could found wanted 2500 Euros to fix it. I had alot of trouble with that car the whole ownership...
Everyday when i drove her it was like: "wow what is breaking next"

I sadly have to say i had very very bad luck.

Maybe one day i will fix her or buy a new one, but for now im without a Jag :(

Greetings
Frederik

Paulofvfreitas 05-14-2019 03:53 AM


Originally Posted by jiv (Post 2070288)
Hi,

so there was a fault on cylinder 6 one valve was damaged, caused the knocking noise. The car is now off the road, im not totally done with what to do with this beauty, because the cheapest workshop i could found wanted 2500 Euros to fix it. I had alot of trouble with that car the whole ownership...
Everyday when i drove her it was like: "wow what is breaking next"

I sadly have to say i had very very bad luck.

Maybe one day i will fix her or buy a new one, but for now im without a Jag :(

Greetings
Frederik

Very sorry to hear that! So your knocking noise was not only at idle, a valve makes noise all the way through the rpm range, right?

jiv 05-14-2019 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by Paulofvfreitas (Post 2070316)
Very sorry to hear that! So your knocking noise was not only at idle, a valve makes noise all the way through the rpm range, right?

The knocking is there all the time, sometimes louder sometimes not so loud. But its louder when engine was cold... So i didnt hear it all the time cause the engine itself got louder over weeks, not much, but to much for a Jag...

Did u miss performance? Did you have tested the compression on all cylinders?

When u can try to get some obd readings for the fuel trims and so on. The people here helped me alot to learn about this readings and how to understand them.

Check coil again
Check if the valve cover gasket is fine and no oil is leaking to the sparkplug in cylinder 6

I can tell the first time i heared the knocking noise i thought it was the timing chain cuz it wasnt present all the time. A good Workshop can check compressions and look in the cylinder with a small camera to see if there is any damage.

Paulofvfreitas 05-15-2019 03:45 AM


Originally Posted by jiv (Post 2070542)
The knocking is there all the time, sometimes louder sometimes not so loud. But its louder when engine was cold... So i didnt hear it all the time cause the engine itself got louder over weeks, not much, but to much for a Jag...

Did u miss performance? Did you have tested the compression on all cylinders?

When u can try to get some obd readings for the fuel trims and so on. The people here helped me alot to learn about this readings and how to understand them.

Check coil again
Check if the valve cover gasket is fine and no oil is leaking to the sparkplug in cylinder 6

I can tell the first time i heared the knocking noise i thought it was the timing chain cuz it wasnt present all the time. A good Workshop can check compressions and look in the cylinder with a small camera to see if there is any damage.

Yes i check compression is good on all cyl and performance is good as always has been

i got an obd2 reader but cant understand nothing about the fuel trims, i must do it again and post here the reading to see if anyone can help me understanding them.

valve cover has a small leak but the spark plug seems to be burning fine at least judging by the colour


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