Thanks, I will check if I open it back up.

I got a message from Motorcarman, and I hope this is okay, he is so helpful and might not have seen this original message. After describing to him and recounting this whole story about how it drove well the first test drive and how after it downshifted at about 40 ish miph, it would go forward in neutral, reversed and pull against the park position as if engaged and after trying to jack up the rear end with hopes of checking the trans fluid level (remember it is scarily engaged in park), I found that the wheel would only turn forward in all gears except Park and there it stops both ways, this is with the engine off.

Motorcarman, said, and this makes sense to me, when the engine is off and it is in any gear but park, the wheel should turn both ways. I just the controlling hydrallics are relaxed and should free everything up. So, he believed the gears are locked up, he didn't specify where, but I suspect it's what ever I did in the "a drive" replacement. I had to take apart and put back together several times and I didn't have great directions or pictures of the detail, so my bet it is that sector.

I have to now make the decision of what to do. I am only a hopefull mechanic but I could take the tranny off again try to figure out the "a drive" or find out if what the matter is or maybe I could take a chance on an used tranny from onling scrapyard or should I try to find a home for a beautiful 2000 light green vanden plas with 82,000 miles at a fairly nominal fee considering I have about $5500 in the car. I guess I've got some thinking to do. Doing it again would be easier, after spending at least three or four days drilling and cutting on a frozen dowel rod, and a broken torque casing bolt and exaust bolts which added to the nervous coniption and destruction of a fascade of confidence. Anyway, thoughts are appreciated. For instance if the
"a drive was locked up" would that cause my problems. I just wouldn't try a complete rebuild, it's just beyond me. Thoughts?? Will P

 

Pulling down the second time will be easier; the bolts are too clean; you have experience, etc.

Then search and find the videos that are available (Google). One, in particular, is broken into two or three parts, and the owner shows you how to reassemble everything.

The other choice is to take it to somebody who rebuilds transmissions. It is much cheaper if you pull the transmission and take it to the rebuilder.

Comes down to how much do you like the car. The $5500 is already spent. But you spent on repairs that you might have to redo any new car.

If you are lucky, you will just need to reattach shift control that somebody mentioned above.

 

We are in the middle of a couple of days of rain, giving me a chance to decide what to do. Your points are all valid, and that how I'm leaning, much thanks to you sir. Will P

 

Just to give you a bit more information on the selector. Internally there are two controls.

Firstly, there is a rod attached to the selector that mechanically controls the Parking Lock - this is independent of the gear selector.

Secondly, the selector pin on the mechanism inside the gearbox needs to be mated with the selector valve/shaft on the Valve Body when the Valve Body is installed. If you do not remember specifically doing this then it is unlikely it is in the right place unless you got very lucky.

This can be checked without removing the gearbox or even the valve body, just the sump.

I've attached a page from the ZF Manual that highlights the pin on the selector that needs to be aligned.

It's easy to become disheartened when you think you've finished and then it all seems to go wrong. But before you do anything rash it's worth checking what you can for free. Good luck.

 

Thanks for your encouragement. I'm not aquainted with this and I am going to read up, but I did change the fluid filter and pan, I didn't remove the valve body, I just replaced the "a drive" only there was no rebuild except for that drive. Would this still apply to what your are saying, if so then I pray for that to be the problem instead of the "a drive". I did see anything about this when reading about replacing the "a drive" only. I didn't touch the valve body. Not a re-build! Please let me know. Will P

 

Hmm, OK. When you say the A Drive I'm assuming you are talking about the A Drum and Input shaft. I didn't know that was possible without removing the valve body and some other things under it, so that is learning for me.

If you haven't disturbed the selector/valve body at all then this may not be your issue. I suppose it could be possible to get disturbed by removing the box and the other work? I still think it is worth checking as it is easy and free if you reuse the fluid.

 

That is a good point: begs the question: did you change the A Drum? What did you actually do? I don't think you can change the A Drum without disassembling the whole transmission, to include removing it from the car and turning it up on its end.

 

That was why I took on the task to start with.That I didn't have to disturb the valve body and only the first drum inside the belhousing and torque converter/oil pump assembly. You pull out the a drum assembly fix the broken piece and re-assmble. I acctually removed the fluid pan and replaced the filter and pan before removing it from the engine. I didn't see anything in the part of the transmission that looked like it was connected to anything, I assumed it was hydraulically powered and controlled. All this being said, after what motorcarman said and the way the wheel only it seems like there is some mechanical failure that traps the transmission from changing out of drive be it a jamming or cog in the gears, I just don't know as of yet. Looks like might under take the task after I lick my wounded ego a few days, but I promise to follow though with what ever happens with this sweet car, I really appreciate all those who have put thought into this and I hope to share all I learn and maybe we can all learn a thing or two. Will P

 

The forward drum (or 'A' Drum) IS the input shaft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You DO NOT need to pull the pan or disassemble ANY other parts other than the bell housing/pump to remove/replace the drum. It is in the very front of the gearbox and if you stand it on it's tail (vertical) you can even leave the fluid in place so you could theoretically NOT EVEN ADJUST THE LEVEL if it was correct to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The drum is mechanically disconnected from the rest of the gears/drums without hydraulic pressure. The friction/steels rotate freely unless the fluid presses against the piston to compress the assembly.

There has to be a fault with the 'A'drum or one of the other drums that are part of the assembly removed when you pull the input shaft from the gearbox. (there are several drums stacked together)

If ALL the drums, frictions, steels don't line up and something jams............ then something is driven that does NOT need to be driven!!!!

Maybe a clutch plate or disc is bent and dragging?????????????????

Maybe a circlip is broken or disconnected????????????

bob gauff

 

Thanks you so much Bob, right now I'm getting ready to give her a go. I will keep you and the forum posted on how it goes. I'm sure I'll have questions, I'm an Auburn football fan which means I'm ever hopeful. Thanks everyone. Will P

 

Thanks, Bob.

Then, to my mind, (and I say again, I have never taken a box apart, nor would I), since you have done it, and know what you need to do to get at it, it makes sense to pull the tranny, turn it up, open it up and see what's not right - from reading - maybe not seated correctly. But you will probably know almost immediately. Worth a try, I think.

 

Jhartz, looks like an answer. Will P

 

The hard part of starting this expedition into the "a drive" was making the decision. Well I'm getting ready, just waiting for the ground to dry. Where the car is parked is packed gravel and dirt. We've had soaking rains for two days and maybe today. I started some preliminary work today. I didn't drain the cooling system last time and as you can probably figure I rightfully took a bath may times during the process, and, deservedly so........ You were right about the survivor's trama of frozen bolts and drilling one day with really good bits, FOUR HOURS, laying in the dirt into the back of the engine, mind numbling and very scary for a beginner mechanic,.. Thank everyone... Will P


I will Post every day or so, that I make progress, until I'm in the "heart of darkness". Picture Martin Sheen plodding up the river to see the mad Col...

Favorite movie line of all time......."ain't you him"!

 

Well I took my time and carefully got her up wth triple back up support and this time, having learned from first time I parked the rear wheel. up on four inch flat concret blocks, to get a tad more rear exhaust work space. I drained the coolant and it looked like new. It will probably be Monday before I get back with it with rain due later today and Friday thur Sunday. I'm excited and I hope to be able to uncover the "a drive unit" with photos or video for those follow me through the process, and as I learn and figure out, those interested can participate. So I hope that would be okay with the forum rules and would be deemed appropriate. My experience on this site has exceeded my expectations...... Will P

 

Well, I just removed the exaust today and hopefully will get to drop the transmission tomorrow.(All of the under the hood stuff done the day before.) After thinking about it I probably spent 3/4 th of my time when I first worked on the a drive struggling on the broken bolts that galvanically corroded stuff. So this time is not such torture. I'm so glad, no matter the outcome, I am doing this, I hate to give up on a project.

During this process and waiting for the rain to pass I read alot about transmissions and one thing that jumped out to me was the cup spring on the a drive and it's compression. I made the compressor that several post mentioned to compress "something" in the clutch. Well, I didn't have to use it, cause I didn't have to compress anything to put it back together.

I gather I must have done something incorrectly. My question is if the a drum compresses the disk to engage the clutch on the a drive would my symptoms be in line for a clutch where the piston engaged the clutch pack and then was not "sprung" by the proper propelling clutch spring back to its normal not engaged position..

Again and I will follow this through and I appreciate all inputs... Will P

 

The spring in the forward drum ('A'drum) pushes the piston away from the 'frictions/steels' allowing them to separate and the hydraulic pressure moves the piston to compress the 'frictions/steels'.

If there is no hydraulic pressure on the 'A'drum then it rotates freely (as in neutral).

It sounds like you are missing some components in the drum.

You cannot install the large (25mm or 30mm) snap ring/circlip without compressing the piston/'O'ring assy. The spring is a large 'wavy' metal part.

Maybe you left the piston in the bottom of the drum when you transferred the clutches??????

I sometimes have to use air pressure to 'blow' the piston out of the drum.

I hope you still have the old drum to check for the parts that might still be in it???
If you returned it to a re-builder as a 'core' then you might call the company and ask if they found the parts still in the old core?????

bob gauff

 

What does the main work, the undulating spring which is the first in in the steel plate friction plate stack or the two cup springs that are in a convex curve like fingers reaching up? I feel like I dropped the ball when I put it back together, I know know I should have asked questions and done more research especially when I felt I had nothing to compress. I can't wait to get inside and figure it out. I may have to present the evidence with photos if I can't figure it out.

So much of the information outthere is not so clear to me but I'm sure guys with experience read it like the sports pages.

Again, Bob, Thanks..... Will Purswell

I'll be back with infor hopefully tomorrow or the next day......

 

Will:
Your post will help others with this seemingly common A Drum problem. Thanks and keep the dialog coming!

 

It looks like there are two input shafts one 1058 270 036 and the part I bought that I though was the correct one fomr my jag 1058 270 040. The later fits most of the 5 hp 24s, how could I tell if it's right for mine, would I need the transmission serial number to check compatiblity. Thanks Will P


see note below

 

The reason I'm writing this I noticed they had different piston numbers and different spring numbers...... Will P