I know this won't be the first time this has been asked... and I have looked through old posts, put please could you give a few replies / bits of advice

The long discription of symptoms is due to me being a 6 to 7 hour round trip away from the nearest Jaguar service centre and having a car which as per others threads might not be worth the transmission replacement cost.

Problem:
Year 2000 XJ8 Soveriegn with 133000 miles suddenly shows GEARBOX FAILURE on display and yellow light. For the US market read TRANSMISSION FAILURE. This occured when pulling up to park. Car has only been driven 50 yards since.

It will now:
Always enage and drive in reverse normally.
Initially failed to drive in DRIVE, but after a few attempts this progressed to starting to pull off in drive before loosing traction then progressed to lurching forwrd as higher revs reached in drive.
All gear numbers light up correctly on selector when selected.
Initially the engine would stall in neutral as though gearbox was dragging power. Now this has gone as the lurching developed.

Background
20000 miles / 3 years ago I thought I noticed slight dampness ? slight transmission fluid leak on body of transmission. Never anything major, but gives me hope that this might be gradual slow fluid leak.
Yes I considered a prevevtative fluid chage at about 100000 miles, but with confussion about fluid I did not go ahead.

Questions:
1 Without access to diagnmostic codes, do the above symtoms give a most likely diagmnosis ?
2 Can I get diagnostic codes from a non- Jaguar deaership ?
3 Is is worth calling ZF to help me diagnose? If so what is their number ?
4 Is it worth me paying a non-Jaguar Transmissin shop to take a look / check fluid level / replace with compatible (as per other threads if low) / check connectors ?
5 Should I just go staight for transmission refurb or replacement
6 Should I tear myself away from attachment to the car and just replace it !

Car is worth little more than the cost of a transmission replacement and has not had cam chain tensioner addressed. It also would benefit from new anti roll bar bushes and scrubs out front tyres. I've had it 7 years and would hate to just let it go. I'm good with classic cars e.g. 70s but out of my depth on electronics / autoboxes.

Apologies that this will have been asked before and for not having the diagnostic codes. All advice greatly apreciated !

Graham

 

Most auto parts stores in the US will read your OBD codes free but I cannot speak to those in Ireland.

There has been a number of posts lately about a growing failure rate of internal transmission parts that would not be helped by an ATF change.

There are a number of transmission replacement avenues short of the $5000 main dealer solution. In fact, it appears from recent posts that ZF transmission are significantly less expensive in the UK than in the US.

ZF folks will be polite but probably not solve your problem unless you find an authorized rebuild shop.

Since you asked, I would take the car to a locally recommended transmission specialist and see what they have to say. Best guess is that you are going to invest in a new/rebuilt transmission.

Did I offer an opinion all your questions?

 

Thanks Test Point,

I have followed this advice and talked to a transmission shop who are inexpensive for a first look. Only problem is that in Ireland local means about an hour each way on a transporter.

A surprisingly helpful Jaguar service man in Ireland gave phone advice that they would farm out any transmission work and that te usual bill would be 2000 euro (about $3000) for a rebuild. Supply and fit of a low ileage unit in the UK would only be about £1000 ($1700) but getting there would be harrd.


If that ends up as the option then I think that will be the end of the cars economic life... which would be a ridicoulous shame.

Question 1
When talking to the transmission shop should give them the ESSO ATF fluid number or recommend the VW ATF as per previous posts ?

Quesion 2
Would the transmission make a 500 motorway miles drive to a cheaper (UK ) replacement option ?

 

The VW and Jaguar ATF is the same thing, ESSO LT 71141, which both probably buy in 20L jugs for shop use. The only difference is price. There are several other suppliers that claim to meet that spec for $5/L.

Can't offer much opinion on the trip. I thought I lived in a rural area being 65 miles from the nearest Jaguar shop. Guess I need to pull up a map of Ireland.

 

Thanks Test Point,

Ireland:
I'm fairly sure there are just the three Jaguar dealerships in Ireland and that the one nearest to me just has sells cars and has no service facilities. Hence I'd be making the trip to Dublin. It's just over 100 miles but the roads in Ireland are still very very poor for this route: It currently includes a train crossing where all traffic stops when there is a train etc etc. Hence I'd say 2.5 to 3.5 hours each way on a transporter. Then there is the "rip off Ireland" mentality where I'd expect any dealership bill to be at least 30% higher than the UK for no obvious reason. I might be over sceptical, but my last experience was along those lines.

Nest step for the XJ8:
I'm getting it transported to a local transmission place (25 miles to get smone honest and good !). I don't think they've seen one before, but I'll print out the ESSO ATF number and comments on standard problems from previous threads. The I'll get the quote and have to decide if it is worthwhile. This is partly influenced by the latest green policy over here which means the XJ8 gets 1560 euro road tax per year (about £1400 or $2100). Hence a new transmission and two years road tax adds up and I’d hate to have the cam chain tensioner or some other issue before the two years were up !.

Thanks again, Really appreciated
I'll let you know what the next news is !

Graham

 

Just a quick note: your transmission was used in BMW's and a very similar version in VW's if that helps in you search for information and service.

 

Thanks again,

I have now also spoken to JOJAGS in the UK (generally very good for second hand parts / advice). They are saying that they would generally just replace with a used unit for £1300 fitted without bothering to diagnose.

Should I steer clear of a USED UNIT if it comes to this ?

Thanks,

Graham

 

Very common solution to an expensive problem. The issue I have is that recycling folks generally do not list the mileage on anything other than the engine, just give it a 'grade'. If I could find a low (lower) mileage transmission in place in a car or get a believable statement from the recycler that is about as good a solution as you are going to find.

Something 60K mile or less might be the objective.

 

Thanks Test Point,

I've now got a couple of places looking for a 60k or lower used unit.

(I did get a UK price of £1600 fitted for a new ZF unit but in the UK.)

Is there any definitive way to check whether my June 2000 engine is steel lined before going ahead ?? I believed it was. This belief was based on looking up the engine number back in 2003. The VIN (vehicle identification number starts with S and ends with F. I believed these ;etters indicated that the car sold in June 2000 had steel liners. But this evening I'm reading that F indicates year 2000 and that Jaguar simply thought that the sulphur was out of the petrol hence year 2000 cars not at risk whether Nikasil or not.

Yesterday a Jag specialist has now worried me by advising that the problem I have of flooding the engine flooding once every two years only happens if compression borderline. I personally had thought it was standard issue on all xj8 engines and not a result of compression issues. (The standard problem of flooding if cold started and not run to temperature happens to me once every two years when I am forgetful and shut engine down quickly after a cold start. Easly avoided and not worsening over 7 years ownership from 90000 miles to 133000 miles.)

I have found your previous post giving 18 August 2000 cut off date and know my engine was manufactured before this. Hence I think you will tell me I have a Nikasil engine.
I have then also found UK posts telling me that the law in UK decreased the suphur content in petrol on 1st Jan 2000 and that short journeys prior to Jan 2000 were the main risk. Hence my engine was UK based, hit the road in August 2000 and did 90000 miles in 24 months with typical journey 100 miles.

Question 1 : Does the easily avoided once every 2 year problem of flooding after brief running from cold indicate compression issues ????
Question 2: If it does indicate compression issues: It has been stable from 90000miles to 133000miles. Shouldn't this remain stable now that there's no sulphur in the petrol and many years of use on low sulpur petrol to harden the Nikasil...... ie "harder than steel liners" ?

I'd be really grateful for a comment on this before spending money on a gearbox !

Graham

 

The combination of 'flooding' and high sulfur fuel, plus overheating from early water pump issues was death to a lot of engines. My opinion is that occasional flooding and hard starting is not very good since the reason for the loss of compression is loss of the oil film between the rings and cylinder walls. That has got to add to wear.

Again, my opinion, Jaguar, BMW and a number of aircraft engine manufacturers used Nikasil because it provided superior long term wear compared to the steel liners. My first XK8, a 2000 with a Nikasil engine and 110k miles had compression of 150 psi plus or minus only a few pounds. That is about new engine specs.

And, yes, based on the dates you provided, you have a Nikasil engine. VIN's don't count, only the engine serial number.

You obviously want to save the car if economically feasible. May I suggest you invest $100 in a compression test that may make you feel a lot better about spending another pile of pounds . . . or cause you to do something else.

 

hey graham .
whereabouts in ireland are you ?
i have a mate called ben in manchester who will sort you out with a good gerarbox .
search my posts on here and you'll find his details

 

details in here
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=30648

 

Thanks Ian,

Would he have alow milage gearbox ?
Would you know what he could supply and fit for ?
or should I call him via web site number ?

Thanks, Graham

 

I just had my transmission rebuilt at AAMCO for $3,100.00. The car only had 66,000 easy miles on it but the rebuild did come with a 36 month guaranty on it. Don't know if there's such a thing as AAMCO in Ireland.

 

Hi Graham

Your best bet would be to get a 2nd hand box from a reputable UK breaker, then get a local man to fit it. I must say your Government is behaving really viciously on road tax; hell that is a lot of money they want for your car. Why do you all vote for them - is it Fianna Foel or Fianna Gael ?

Ireland (the Republic) is a great place, I have had several holidays there, two with an XJ6 Series 3, and then the petrol was cheaper than the UK. Now with the Euro the level it is, it's just TOO expensive.

 

Thanks for all the above. I'm now back on the road having managed to get a full rebuild for a reasonable price in Ireland. I had a few other small things done at same time and probably spent about the equivalent of $2500 on the gearbox rebuild. There are adverts over here for similar cars for little more than that !

Thanks again