For years, I was adding Lucas injector/intake valves cleaner to every 4th-5th tank on my vehicles, and every time I added it, I noticed better idle, and overal smoothness of the engine.

As a former gas station owner, I know better than to pump unbranded fuel in my cars, so I always pump quality gas from the four major brands (Mobil, Chevron, Shell, 76), but I still used Lucas.

I am not sure how Nicasil will respond to the additives (as minniscule as they are), so I'd like to hear some experiences/opinions please.

 

I as well have used Lucas and like it. but i had a 1995 jeep grand cherokee laredo (4.0 inline 6), she averaged about 17mpg when i got her, gave her a full tune-up to see little change, about a year later a buddy told me to try Chevron with Techron fuel additive. Figured why not give it a shot.... after adding it my mpg jumped to 19.7 average. Since then it's all I use.

 

I run b12 and the unbranded fuel we sell at our full service gas station/repair shop! I used Lucas injector cleaner once on my t bird. I pretty much only use b12 every dozen or so tanks of fuel.

 

Never given it a thought..but perhaps I should.I use additive in my diesel truck though. Found that using 100 octane rating helped fuel economy but with the extra price it would balance out I guess.What octane rating do others use I wonder?

 

From my reading of many posts on the forum about fuel pump failures, blocked filters and rough running, I've concluded this is a serious issue in the US but considerably less so in Europe. Perhaps octane, quality and contaminants all play a part in this.

It's good to see this topic from a former gas station owner who is also an advocate of using only branded fuel and additives.

Jaguar Handbooks give different recommendations on fuel for US and Europe.

EUROPE
Always use high quality fuel which contains detergent and other additives. These will help to protect the engine components against corrosion and carbon deposit formation, and prevent the fuel injection system from clogging.

The continuous use of high quality fuel makes the need for additional additives unnecessary.

US
If high quality fuels containing "intake system deposit control" detergent and other additives are used continuously, there should be no need to add any aftermarket products to the fuel tank.

If problems are experienced with starting, rough idling or hesitation when the engine is cold, it may be caused by gasoline with a low volatility. Try a different grade and/or brand of fuel.

A big difference in the above advice (the bold text is mine to highlight the difference).

In Europe additives are perceived as unnecessary and have largely disappeared whereas in the US Jaguar recognise an issue exists and there is clearly a big market for a number of products.

Opinion on the use of additives clearly has to be balanced against where we are in the World.

Graham

 

I'll categorically disagree (quickly jumping on my double height soap box) with the generalization that there's a problem in the US, Canada or anywhere 'civilized' for that matter. Most geographic areas have only one or two refineries- there's not 'dozens' to match the dozens of brand name and off brand name retailers. This means that the gasoline as it leaves a refinery is all the same stuff.

The only difference from one brand name to another is with additives- with the marketeers doing their best to convince us that their product is superior and everything else is sh*t. Just like beer, half the crowd says their favourite is the best while the other half completely disagrees and the conversation deteriorates until the pancake bunny is brought out.

(Whew, just in time.)

Off-brand retailers get the same gasoline as the big guys, sometimes with a custom made additive package, sometimes with a copy-cat of either Coke or Pepsi. Uhh sorry, wrong discussion board. There's no evidence that Brand X is better or worse than Brand Y or Z or anything.

If there is a difference between the N.American and EU market, perhaps it's the ingrained belief on the part of the consumer here that there's magic in the additives that will overcome some inherent shortcoming of the gas they've purchased. If this was true- wouldn't it be simple enough for one retailer to simply add the 'magic' themselves and demonstrate that their product is indeed superior? Never underestimate the power of the placebo effect and don't forget that the term 'snake oil' was invented on this side of the Atlantic.

It is true that a gas station can have contamination problems with underground tanks- but that can happen anywhere at any time, and again nothing to do with geographic location- unless some countries have stricter regulations than other. No additive will overcome contaminated gas.

There's my , and it's time for a Sunday jaunt off to try a new-to-us country pub:

The Old Mill At Ashton (Ashton Brew Pub)

 

Ooops, forgot. There is some truth to this. Much of North America switches from summer blend to winter blend and back again as the seasons change all in a futile effort to reduce pollution and conserve energy. The 'volatility' referred to is the Reid Pressure Vapour

Reid vapor pressure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

which has minimal effect on fuel injected engines but can give owners of older ill tempered carbureted engines problems with vapour lock. This is a big issue with the old Corvette hobby.

Off we go..................

 

Mike,

....... and that's before you've been to The Old Mill at Ashton.

I'll give you a chance to down a couple of foaming pints then throw in something about Synthetic Oil to get you on your triple height soap box.

Graham

 

Kinda tacky to reply to my own post, but.........

I owned two gas stations over the last 15 years (sold the last one in September of 2010). One was 76 (currently owned by Connoco-Phillips), and one was Mobil. Both had full service car washes too (so I know a thing or two about detailing, and cosmetic upkeep of the cars too).

Some of you are dead on with your observations. As I lived over 30 years (on and off) in Europe, I am well versed in the differences between the gasoline quality on the two sides of The Pond.

In the US: All branded gasoline is coming down the same pipeline, and goes to the branded "rack". At the rack, the dye, and the additives are added, which distinguishes one brand from the other. Racks are rigorously "policed", and the octane rating, and the Ethanol blend percentage is closely watched.

On the unbranded gasoline racks, there is no additives, Ethanol is added, and in some cases, the 10% of Ethanol can be as much as 25% (this was well documented by the media in CA couple of years back). Too much Ethanol is NOT GOOD for any engine, no matter what they say. Another problem is the octane rating. Excluding the "racing gasoline" of 120 octane (VERY few places carry it!), all of it is 91 as the highest available in the US (I know Europe is different). There are two different dispenser types in the US. Ones that blend the "mid grade" at the station, and ones that don't (older ones). The blending ratio is left to the outdated mechanical system, that mixes 87 and 91 to produce the "midgrade". These systems are not foolproof, and they mulfunction a LOT (even on the branded, well "policed" sites).

On the unbranded sites, there is VERY LITTLE policing, and you can never be sure what octane rating you are pumping in your tank. On the top of that, .....is a filtration problem. Branded sites have a VERY STRICT filtration requirements (randomly checked by the company), of 10 micron filters. Unbranded sites (including Arco) don't have any company mandated filtration parameters, and in some cases (7-11, USA gasoline, Trifty, Mom&Pop stations, etc) there are NO FILTERS present at the pump at all!

Filters are not cheap, and depending on the volume of the site, they need to be changed fairly frequently (one of my sites was pumping 450K galons a month, and I needed to change the filters every three months on 9 dispensers). Each grade has it's own filter, so it comes out to be 2 or 3 filters per dispenser. "Midgrade" doesn't have it's own filter, because it's a blend between 87 and 91, but I also had the diesel,...hence some dispensers have two filters, and some three. Mom&Pop sites don't put ANY filters in order to increase their "pool margin" (gasoline retailer's lingo, meaning "bottom line profit per gallon combined").

Bottom line,.....inconsistent octane rating, lax Ethanol ratio, and no filtration, and I stay away from unbranded gasoline. Intake valve carbon deposits, throttle body carbon, clogged fuel filters, clogged injectors, failing fuel pumps ARE the direct result of the low quality gasoline.

So next time when you are trying to "save" 10-12 cents per gallon, by pumping a "no name" gas, think about the big picture. 10 cents saves you about two bucks per tank,.......repairs are WAY more than that.

And as I said in my original post,.....even I pump branded only (with Techron, or ANY other "special" detergent!), I still add Lucas to every 100 or so gallons used. My Hummer had a misfire on #1 cyl due to the carbon deposits (I bought it used with 35K on the clock). After four consecutive tanks treated with Lucas, deposits were gone, valve started closing properly, and no more codes!

To each his own.

Sorry about the long post, but some things just need a lot of words to be explained.

 

Actually- no. 93 or 94 is readily available depending on geographic region. No idea why, I don't know of any cars being produced that use it (?)

As for all gas being 91- I disagree again. I've occasionally had to put 87 in my old Corvette and the pre-ignition/pinging is testament that it's not 91. Hang around the muscle car discussion boards, you'll get plenty of similar comments or possibly here on the X type section. These cars seem to notice lower octane fuels more than other Jags, not sure why.

Perhaps your observations and experience might be true in your own area but are certainly not representative of the whole country or continent. If what you claim is true, there are no additives that will counter act dirty or contaminated gas- which was your orignal topic I believe.

Deb had a Cornish pasty with mash, I had the chicken and mushroom boxty with chips. Both were excellent as was the beer, we'll go back again. Their Xmas ale should be on the menu shortly, that a good excuse right there. We took the long road home looking for the cheapest possible off brand gas in the small backwater towns, and any specials on non-synthetic oils.

 

danielsand clearly started his technical remarks with "In the US: "

The actual statement was "all of it is 91 as the highest available in the US ... that mixes 87 and 91 to produce the midgrade"

Your assertion would mean that the base business practices and operations of the major oil companies in the US varies from region to region. That would take a huge stretch of the imagination. As for Canada, the gasoline retail business is strongly influenced by the US in general, and in particular where the brand is an offshoot of the US parent.


Better read the opening post again.

++

 

Is Ethanol a common constituent of pump gas in Europe?

That may be the biggest difference in addition to refining practices and standards.

 

93 and 94 octane are commonly available in the US, depending on geographic region.

Canada is similar.

Point taken, I misunderstood the OP's statement.

 

Yes - but it varies.

France is adopting 10% Ethanol extremely quickly and it's becoming increasingly difficult to find 98 octane standard fuel.

UK has by stealth introduced 5% Ethanol and we're expected to go to 10% within two years.

I've driven down to both Spain and Italy this year and 10% Ethanol is almost universal in both countries.

Also driven into Switzerland but didn't stay long enough to need to refuel!

Graham

 

I was aware of the increasing use of corn juice in the EU, and if I understand correctly, your 98 RON fuel is now blended with it?

 

That's funny Mikey,....you are from Perth, Ontario and both of my gas stations are in Ontario, California! And you are right, I was never in a gasoline business in any other state of the Union, except California, so all my statements pertain only to CA and AZ (where I have other businesses, and I fuel my cars over there a lot!). I lived in MN, FL, VA, AZ, and CA but only in CA I was in the gasoline retail. I drove criss-cross this great country of ours MANY times though, and I don't remember EVER seeing anything higher than 91. I know for a FACT that 120 (plus small aviation fuel) is available, and my station carried 120 for a short while (it's located close to CA Speedway in Fontana), but there was not much demand for it, despite the close proximity of the race track, and all the people that are renting it every weekend, so I discontinued selling it.

Please enlighten me as to where did you purchase 94 and 95 in the US?

 

UK 98 RON fuel is a maximum 5% Ethanol content at the moment. Introduced without any consultation or notification. Not even displayed on the station pumps.

I'm so disgusted that I'm almost prepared to follow your lead and run my Jaguar with old McDonalds cooking oil in the engine and kerosene in the tank.

Graham

 

Ah- from California, now I understand the '91 maximum' reference.

For 93 and 94:

93 Octane Gas - Locations Across USA - Corvette Forum

(sorry for the cross post to another forum, but at least it's owned by the same company as our forum)

Many of the Sunoco stations in VT. NH, ME, NY, PA have/had 94 in lieu of 93. I did not mention 95, never seen it other than at 'racing fuel' outlets. Again- I have no idea why station bother selling 93 or 94. Don't know of any modern cars that require higher than 91. Maybe it's a plot by the evil marketeers to keep the octane= power myth alive .

 

I get 93 octane at Sunoco. They have 87, 89, 91 and 93 octane. It all has 10% ethanol though.

 

Most petrol sold here in Ireland has 5% ethanol added, in a (IMHO misguided) attempt at conservation. For what it's worth, I use only known-good, branded fuel, mainly Texaco and Topaz. Also, and this may have come up up-thread and if so and I missed it I apologise, but octane numbers are given/understood on this side of the world as RON (Research Octane Number), and in North America (and a few other jurisdictions) as the AKI, or Anti-Knock Index, the average of the RON and MON. This is typically 4 or 5 points lower for exactly the same fuel blend.