1977 XJ6 Ignition Questions
 

Hello to all the Jag experts here. I am restoring a 1977 XJ6, and have some basic questions regarding the ignition system. In this picture you can see the Ballast Resistor to the lower left of the Coil, and another type of Resistor to the lower right of the Coil. This one is a shiny aluminum with a Lucas Number 54427556. Many years ago someone replaced the points under the distributor with an electronic "Lumenition Optronic" system. The wiring was done very "jerry-rigged" with exposed wires, and some not hooked up. I have the Jag Parts Manual, Shop Manual, Owners Manual, and cannot determine how these are supposed to be hooked up. Are both of these resistors supposed to be hooked up with this Lumenition system? I also found the LUmenition wiring diagram online, but it does not give this information.

Can someone provide me advice or a clear wiring diagram as to how the coil, Ballast, and Lucas resistors should be hooked up? Pulling out my hair on this one.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...aa628b0792.jpgThe Ballast Resistor is to the left of the coil, and then there is another shiny aluminum one to the right, with a Lucas Number 54427556.

In this picture, you can see where "Sparky" has twisted a green wire into the brown wire. The brown wire is the feed from the Lumenition electronic ignition box going to the "Negative" side of the Coil. The green wire appears that it should plug into the female green wire that can be seen on top the aluminum foil to the left side of the picture.

Any suggestions?
Thanks.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...e9470c9520.jpg

BALLAST
 

Hantke.......Hello. I just joined this Jag site, and I am also restoring a 1977 XJ6L which I bought last month. I have been taking a ton of pics of the rebuild process, and will post some here of the submerged fuel pumps that I removed, and the carb rebuilds. I also just posted a question in another thread about the ignition system......do you have two Ballast Resistors at the base of your Coil as mine does?

Here is a pic of how you remove the submerged fuel pump:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ea211987bf.jpgPassenger side fuel pump is behind this round cover. Same on driver's side.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...52fb6aa780.jpgLock down ring removed, and pump ready to be pulled out. Be sure to drain the tanks first!
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...8e1a425d8a.jpgBoth of my pumps were bad. This pic is after cleaning.
I would MUCH rather have the prior design of the pumps and filter in the trunk, as its a big pain to remove/replace these units inside the tanks. I am contemplating replacing them with one electric pump mounted externally.

Here is the pic of my ignition system, located down and to the right of the carbs. Can you tell me if you have BOTH of these ballast resistors mounted just below your Coil?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...1904f49570.jpgWhite colored ballast resistor below and to the left, and a silver one down and to the right of the Coil.Thanks.

NAH,

That alloy ballast thing is related to the Opus system that the car had originally. About as reliable as a FIAT, aka, Fix It Again Tony.

The connected ballast is a standard ICR13 Universal unit, sold by the thousands back in the day, for all sorts of cars.

Yours has probably had the Opus removed and a Contact Points distributor fitted, very common world wide, until the S3 Electronic system arrived, and then that was the go to for the S2 6 cylinder cars.

Grant......I posted the pic of the coil and the two ballasts below it. What is "Opus" system? Maybe Original Points.....something?

I posted another thread asking about this ignition system. Mine has a Lumition electronic system installed, with the points replaced by that optic device under the distributor. The wiring is really Jerry-rigged, as the pics show. Am I supposed to be using BOTH of these ballasts.....the white one on the left and also the alminyum one on the right? Does anyone have a wiring diagram showing how to properly wire in both of the ballasts? Is it possible that one of the ballasts is designed for something other than the ignition?
Thanks.
Dwight

That’s some impressive crap you pulled out, my worry now would be the integrity of the tanks, that stuff has come from somewhere and most likely its the inside of the tanks flaking off, sorry if I come across as a harbinger of doom.

Dwight,

This thread is getting way too confusing for my tired old cells.

The Original Ignition system on the S2 Carby cars was an Opus BRAND system. AKA as "Hopelus".

Cost Jag here a Motza in warranty claims. Points distributors were readily available from any of the earlier cars from 1950ish onwards.

Yours with a Lumenition is also not new to any car world.

I found the S3 system for all my 7 Series cars, the MK10 and S Type 3.4, never looked back.

Basically it drops the voltage TO the coil from 12 to about 7, and the coil IS a specific "Resistor Spec" coil, also common anywhere.

Then there is a 3rd wire, usually via a relay, that provides a 12v by-pass to ZAP the coil for starting, then, once the key is released to the Run position, the ballast system takes over. SIMPLE.

If that coil is a standard 12v coil, then the engine will be off song, as the spark will be weak. Most coils have the "Use with Resistor" stamped in the base. I always went with, NO stamp, NOT a resistor coil, and that has held me well for too many years.

Grant.......Yep, all this flux capacitor gravitational electromagnetic discussion is frying my brain too.......Great Scott!, as the crazy DeLorean-driving scientist would say.

OK, the "Opus" is just the name of the system I have in my 77.....got it.

So, I need to remove the coil and inspect it to see if it is a 12volt, or if it was designed to use the ballast resistor with it. Will do that today.....it says "Lucas" on it, but I guess Lucas made both types.

Now, lets assume the Lucas coil is stamped "Use with Resistor", then I need to keep the Ballast wired in-line. But what about the other Ballast Resistor that I was asking about? In the pic, there is the white one to the lower left of the Coil, and the shiny aly-miny-umm one to the lower right of the Coil. What the heck is the shiny aly one for?

Assuming that the Lucas coil is not stamped "Use with Resistor", and is 12v, does that mean that I need to unplugg both of those Ballast resistors mounted to the Coil base plate?

Thanks.
(I was going to take all this talk over to my thread about this ignition system, but I guess that since we started here, we should finish here?)

Have not seen your other thread, damn.

That shiny one is not connected that I can see, so remove it, less weight, more speed.

If your coil is a resistor coil, leave the White ballast as is.

If your coil is unknown, get a Use with Resistor coil, and still leave the White ballast as is.

Your OPUS is gone, that is what the Lumenition is now doing, just the slack OP did not remove ALL the odds and ends.

Like all my early V12's, the Opus are all gone, and Crane sits in its place, its only the name that varies.

Grant.....Boy, that pic beside your name is wow, wow, wow......you have yourself one hot wife.....no wonder you get distracted......shoot, forgot what I was going to write about.....well, I will just sit and admire the pic for awhile......

8 hours later.....wow, wow, wow......but now I remember........I was replying to your comments:
Yep, my other thread titled "Ignition Questions" has had no replies.......thats why I went ahead and asked the creator of this thread if he could help.
I like your opinion......yank the dern Ballast out, toss it over my shoulder, and dont look back.....less weight, faster 0-200 time.

But I still would like to know what that dern shiny Ballast on the right is for. In the 1977 Jag Parts Book, it shows both Resistors, but does not give them a name or a function. What would have been the purpose to have two Ballast Resistors mounted to the Coil Base Plate? Before I toss it out, I would like to know what is for. It might be necessary for proper function of the passenger ejector seat......will have to contact 007 and ask him. (But without a sunroof, maybe I should disarm the ejector seat anyway).

Just had a thought.....You mentioned that when the driver turns the ignition key to "start" to engage the starter, that the Ballast Resistor is bypassed so that a higher voltage can reach the Coil. Is it possible that this bypassed voltage flows to the Shiny Ballast, which is rated at a higher level than the White Ballast.....thus allowing more electrons to the Coil?
Dwight......now I can get back to admiring the pic. Ha ha.......

Greetings. I am still hoping to get some input from others regarding this ignition system. First, to add a bit of laughter to this thread, I will show a pic of this exotic "Jag Model A-XJ6L", with the high dollar custom wheels that perhaps only a handful were out-fitted with:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...22c7fda824.jpgSuper rare Jag Model A-XJ6L.Back to the ignition questions: Can anyone explain what the 2 Ballast Resistors are for? I learned that the white one to the lower left of the Coil is to reduce the volts from 12 down to around 9 while the engine is running, but during cranking the Ballast Resistor is bypassed and the coil gets a direct supply from the battery (which is probably dropping to around 9-10 volts due to the starter motor sucking up all the amps).

I removed the coil to try to determine if it was the original 6 volt or if it had been upgraded to a 12 volt. Based on the numbers, it appears to be the old 6 volt:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...44f90a52e1.jpgCoil, Shiny Resistor, & Condensor
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...aae3dfde29.jpgCoil No. I6C6, 45232E, date stamped 12-77.Many years ago, the following Luminition electronic ignition was installed, and the points was tossed out:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...e6f8ef8413.jpgLumenition electronic ignition box.So, assuming that this is a 6 volt coil, then the white Ballast Resistor will still be needed, correct? That leaves the shiny alyminium one........is there a special purpose for this one?

Also, any advice on the green wire that I showed in an earlier picture? Looks like it should "plug" into something, and there is a green female wire in proximity that it could be plugged into......any idea what the green wire is for?

Thanks for all advice.

I've moved your thread from General Tech Help to XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III forum. Members who are likely to have the answer will be here.

Graham

Graham.......OK, thanks for moving it where others can see it.
Dwight

Dwight,

I've moved all your ignition/ballast posts from Hantke's 1976 XJ6-L Project thread to here.

It was becoming very confusing diverting to your topic in his project thread. All your questions and relevant replies are here in the one place now.

Graham

Graham.......OK........thanks for moving it all.
This morning I found that our cat named "Bobcat" just gave birth to a liter of kittens...........and she decided to make the delivery in the driver's seat of the Jaguar. Guess she likes looking at the Jaguar emblem in the steering wheel. Will try to get some pics before she "hopefully" moves them to a box I made in the rear seat. Fortunately I had a thick blanket on the driver's front leather seat.

From afar:


1. Mighty nice set of Ford A 21" wheels. But, only for display here, huh!!!! Ford Lug pattern and Jaguar's lug pattern differ. Jaguar is more like Chevrolet!!


2. The alloy ballast aka resistor is attractive. But more wires than needed???


2. Were it my car, as originality is left behind here, I'd simplify. dump the excess. Coil and both ballasts. Invest is an decent quality 12 coil. Wire it in. Simplicity. + from ignition switch. - post to the distributor.


Crank on 12 as well as run on 12. Alas, points and condenser will not be as happy.


Carl

Carl.........Thanks for the thumbs up on the 1931 Ford wheels. You are right.....lug pattern wont work, but I could just weld them on......ha ha.....

Regarding the alloy shiny ballast.......Im not sure if it is needed or not. Maybe 30 years ago some guy just left it there when he installed the Luminition electronic ignition.....Im not sure. I would like to know what the original purpose was in having two ballasts mounted beside the coil. The 1977 Jaguar Parts Book does show both of these resistors, but I still have no idea what the shiny one was for. Is it possible that the shiny one was activated during cranking of the starter, and it reduced the voltage from 12 volts to maybe 9-10 volts? The white ballast was active when the starter was not engaged, and reduced the 12 volts down to around 7 volts.

I hear you about just going with a 12 volt coil......but at this point I just want to keep it as-is. I just finished rebuilding the carbs, but cant put them back on until I resolve the wiring issues. Engine has not run in 20 years, and I have had the pistons soaking in fogging oil and Marvel Mystery Oil for the past 3 weeks. Looking forward to hearing the engine run for the first time.

Thanks for the input.
Dwight

Well, our Bobcat decided to have her kittens in the front seat of the Jaguar. Luckily I had an old thick flannel sheet on the seat cushion, so no runs, no hits, no errors on the old leather seat. I guess ole Bobcat picked a classey spot to have her kittens.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b0ece6f534.jpgBobcat and her 6 kittens in the front seat of the Jaguar.Guess I have plenty of time to figure out those ignition wiring problems.

Dwight,

I may have assumed too much, common for me.

The White ballast is NOT a JAg part, and has been fitted after the car was built.

Reasons:

The Opus failed.
The Opus ballast, the SHINY thing, is toast, most are.

You simply have bits and pieces of 2 systems on the car, with only ONE doing the task.

That Shiny thing, is simply a fancy version of the White ballast.

The car only needs ONE, and the White unit is wired, and apparently working?????, so if it aint broke, dont mess with it.

Grant.....Good morning, and thanks for your comments. What perplexes me is that the 1977 Jag XJ6 Series Two Parts Catalogue shows both of the resistors being mounted to the Coil Base plate. They are mounted in the exact position as on my 77 XJ6. See pic:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b2ffc28a70.jpg1977 Parts Book shows both the white resistor and the aly-miny-um one.

The white one is C.32578 and the shiny aluminum one is C.44458

So, at some point it seems that both were intended to be used......and I just cant find any information as to what they were for. I guess I will do a test by supplying 12V to both and measure the volts on the output side of each resistor. The white one should read around 7 volts. If the shiny aly-miny-um measures around 9-10volts, then I am thinking that this one operates when the starter motor is being cranked. Other possibilities?

Still pulling out my hair.
And the Bobcat is still in the front seat with her kittens and the Jaguar watching over them.
Dwight

Bugga, USA car, they were different.

My S2 cars had the shiny one, thats all, and one being a Daimler, and from the 1st owner, as near original as any I have seen.

My understanding of your system is the White is the "running" ballast, and the other is something to with the by-pass to the Opus module.

I have/had a detailed schematics of that somewhere in the shed, and when time permits, hahahaha, I will look for it, and re-read that Opus fiasco.