1979 XJ12L S2 Starter problem? Funny clicking noise. Video attached.
 

Hi All,

I have a 1973 S2 XJ12L (carbs). Starter seems a bit stuffed ?

Was running recently before incident. Was cranking and just about to catch when it started making that clicking sound.

Thought it might be the battery so charged it for 4 days. No difference
Thought it might be a dud earth so put two jump leads on the battery earth direct to the block, no difference


See video:




BTW earth lead gets pretty warm after a couple of tries. Not too hot to touch but significantly hot.

Any ideas?

Thanks,


Wilson.

Wilson:


I suspect that you are on the way to replacing the starter.


But, before you dive in, go over the circuits. Jaguar mantra. Clean, tighten and lube.


1. Ignition switch to starter relay. Relay to starter solenoid.


2. Battery cables. - post to wing wall. + post to fire wall post. Fire wall post to solenoid on the starter.


3. And often ignored. Down and under. A braided cable from chassis to engine at the transmission.


If this process does not fix the issue, out with the starter for bench tests.


Carl

Charging the battery for four days doesn't definitively remove it from the suspect list. If a battery is a dud you could charge it for a hundred days and it would still be a dud.

Have the battery tested. Or if you have a volt meter you can accomplish the same thing by checking for voltage drop when cranking.

I agree that the starter is likely on its last legs but replacing it on a V12 isn't a pleasure cruise so eliminate all other (easier) suspects first.

Just IMO !

Cheers
DD

Oops.

All the hallmarks of a battery that has lost its guts. It may be charged, and after 4 days one would think so, but batteries are fickle at best.

The starter relay would be next, up on the firewall panel, just near the centre bolt for the crossbraces. Has a Large White/Red wire on one terminal. This wire goes TO the solenoid, and sometimes the spade on the relay is loose, simple fix, squeeze.

Next the ring gear is out of mesh range, and the pinion is jamming as apposed to rotating, sounds stupid, its not. Sir Arthur does this sometimes, SAME noise exactly, and a few milimetres rotation of the engine in a clockwise direction sorts him just fine. Reach down from the RH top and place the 1" socket/breaker bar on the crank nut, and push slightly, even my wife (her car) knows how to do this, so its simple. Mind you Sir Arthur has Thermo fans, and lots of room, so I suppose good luck is in order.

Next, starter out for refresh, and on a RHD V12, oh boy, lotsa fun.

The hotish earth cable is sort of normal, but is indicative of a starter issue, as in drawing heaps of current it cannot dispose of by rotating.

Hi Grant,


The battery is good and I tried it with other batteries.


Interesting idea about the ring gear out of mesh. Although simple to fix I don't fabcy living with it indefinitely.


The starter was new about 10 years ago but I've done maybe 120 miles in the last 10 years so its not worn. Still could be humped though. Things rot.


I got under the car to look at the starter to see if the +ve lead has come off it or come loose.


Its where? I think I *might* have been able to see 10 degrees of the curvature of the very back of it. No better view from above. Am considering a USB endoscope attachment for my phone.


Cheers,


Wilson.

I managed to get the exhaust heat shield off with a bit of persuasion (6ft scaffy pole).

Sadly, the +ve connection to the motor looks good so I will have to try and get the downpipe off.

The last time was 20 years ago and I used a set of crows feet spanners that I bought for the job.

They came with a 10mm to 1/2 adaptor which I seem to have lost.

So, I made a tool to take the correct spanner (pics).

Sadly (again) the spanner is a bit of a rubbish fit on the nut and was never too clever to begin with and is now rounding over the nut edges.

I shall have to look out an appropriate socket (9/16th) ?
Cheers,
Wilson.

Shame. Nice lathe work though!

And, a tree point chuck, unlike my far more fussy 4 pointer!!!


Carl

Hi Carl,

I always fancied a 4 jaw self centering for square work in addition to the 3 jaw for round and hex.

They're quite rare.

I actually do have one but its on an L00 backing which fits neither my Bantam (D1-3) nor my Student (L0).

Hi Grant,


Well, given that your suggestion to turn the engine slightly looked worth a go I... gave it a go.


Fan off, socket on, turned engine 10 degrees clockwise.


It turned easily which ruled out the possibility that it was seized. Hurrah!


Battery in.


Ignition on, tried start.


Familiar clicking noise. Grrr...


Tried start.


Familiar clicking noise. High speed whirring noise. Puff of smoke.


Oh dear. Drive pinion stripped? Magic smoke gone?


Sod it. In for a penny... tried start.


Engine turns!


Add fuel, engine starts!


Great rejoicing!


So, I owe you a beer mate.


Now I need to finish making the carb linkage and deal with the LHS bonnet hinge which helpfully sheared.


The vacuum advance doesn't look too clever either.

Hey ho, at least its now a car that moves and not a lump of scrap.


Mucho thanks!


Wilson.

Well done.

I would dismantle the starter relay and carefully clean the contacts, and maybe that will assist.

That Magic smoke, oh dear, someone here may have some spare, and an applicator, Clarke in Brisbane did a while back, but I reckon his S1 may have used it up.

Good that it runs, and you are happy. The rest will fall into place, proving how simple these cars really are.

You are right Grant, the S1 has had the fire and a couple of smaller leaks so all out Magic Smoke. I'll have to stock up just in case I get another leak, which is highly likely with 46 year old wiring.:icon_goofygrin:

Great. Whatever was stuck is fixed. But, to reoccur???


Two back up plans. Each has worked at times for me, on other critters, but with similar starter architecture.


1. Percussion. I got one last crank from a failing starter on my Jeep.
got me home and saved a tow. A couple of whacks with the shileigleagh that each of my cars has stowed.


2. After much starter travail in my lump, I added a wire at the small terminal on the solenoid. The other end is wrapped, but close to battery. I can, with care, start my engine sans the ignition key and the relay involved. Super care a better phrase!!!!


Carl

OK, so got finished the new linkage.

Just need to install and mate to original throttle pedestal.

All in 316L except the bearing housings. The guy next to me only does 316L and he has a lot of offcuts but not 1" 1/2 which I would have needed.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...951250be47.jpg

Nearly there... I need to figure a cable run for the throttle cable.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...c26cff66bf.jpg