I am in the middle of re-building my 4.2 and need to all of the parts from 1 block to fit to the new block. I have the distributor shaft removed and the book talks about removing the bush by taking out the locking screw from the front and then drifting the bush out..

However when i remove the screw i would either expect the screw to be long enough to contact the bush in a recess or have a short screw and then maybe a pin or setscrew to lock the bush in place but i have neither (on both engines), to me there has to be something that locks this bush into place but it seems not...

I don't want to just start whacking this bush from above in case i damage it and there is something i cannot see...

Can someone please provide some guidance.

thanks

Russell

 

Caveat:


Never been there.


1. The screw in situ doesn't seem to be the same as the one in the other picture. But,
probably merely phot limitations. You removed it!!!


2. I agree, it just doesn't look like it is performing the function of a grub screw to keep the busing in place??


3. A couple of measurements should determine if the end of the screw comes into contact with bush and with enough tension to secure it. I've my doubts from afar.
4. I suspect that you have determined that there is enough slop in the bush to merit it's replacement.


5. If it is tightly pressed in, a saw cut along the length can relieve the tension and make pressing or "banging" it out easier.


The Jaguar and I went to market. No rain, yet, but cold, at least to us. Needed, amongst other stuff, black eyed peas. Traditional for luck in the New Year.


HAPPY 2017 TO ALL.


Carl

 

Thanks Carl..

The block you see in the pics is toast so i need to remove this bush to install in my fresh block, otherwise yes i would resort to something a little more menacing to get it out.

It is the same screw, i just spun it in there without it's copper washer for clarity of where it came from.

The screw in no way is long enough to be used as a means of locking the bush into place. I will head into the garage again tomorrow to see if i can work out a way to remove.

Russell

 

Hi Russell. I do agree with Carl that the screw in pic#2 doesn't look the same as in pic#1. More to the point, the silver headed screw in pic#1 does not fit with my memory of what this should be . . . I recall it as a hex headed bolt whose length is long enough to reach and hold the bush. In any event, once removed, you should be free to drift out the old bush.

However, I must ask why you intend to use this "old " bush in a newly re-built engine. Perhaps you will be surprised to find you can still purchase a new replacement. IIRC, you drift or press in new bush . . . then ream to finished spec. By all means, drift out the old bush so you know what you are dealing with . . . but, compared to cost of all new bearings, rings, seals etc, I would replace with new.

Best wishes,

Ken

 

My memory is worse than Kens, it been too long since I opened an XK engine up.

I found this

Engine section.pdf

Scroll down to page 129 (it starts at pge 113), so not too far down.

It shows that bushing, etc.

They are TIGHT in that casting housing, from memory.

I hope all this works for you as our internet is travelling at a blistering 21KB/S, when its working and drops out regularly, since Dec30, and no one knows when it will be fixed.

 

Grant:


1. Any election coming up? Hackers tried to influence ours.


2. Some messed with the outfit I use for "E" mail. ID thieves at work.


3. Or merely band width over load. Every body and his brother on linwe for what ever....


HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!


Carl

 

Carl,

Happy New Year to you and yours.

I WISH it was that.

The landlines went down Dec29, after being a hit and miss affair for a week prior. Still down, NO time to fix as yet.

Then on the 30Dec the ADSL went west, and has been on and off (more of the off) since then. We usually travel at 4000+ and this is slower than the old dial up I do remember.

Some say Jan 20 bedore it is meant to be back to normal.

So, I use whilst it works, and do Jag work when it dont.

Some serious compensation heading the way of thousands of Aussies, as its out near on country wide, should put that in the "tourist highlights" thread haha.

 

Ken

The reason for re-use of the old bush is that it's still perfectly serviceable (needs a good clean i will grant you) as it has not suffered from wear and is not causing the shaft to "wobble" when fitted, also the same shaft will be used so they are a "matched" pair.

The screw is the same screw, the pic of it on the bench is with the copper sealing washer, when i spun it into the block i omitted this washer, this is the reason it looks so different.

It is interesting to note that both my old block and this new one (Both 8L designation) have the very same screw and copper washer arrangement, i am wondering if on older non-split blocks they used to use a locking screw and on the split blocks they decided a press fit was perfectly acceptable. When looking down the bore of the new block without the bush there is a hole directly opposite to the screw hole which makes no sense to me as there is no way you can pin the bush in place otherwise the shaft would never fit.

Russell

 

OK Russell . . . good explanation, and with so many evolutionary changes across the range of XK engines, this press fit bush is probably one of too many Jaguar things my memory wrestles with.

Suddenly, I hear the "clunk" of a huge penny dropping! Your comment about the copper sealing washer under the head of this screw . . . and the drilling on the opposite side of the bush housing . . . both suggest my memory may have misled my previous explanation to you. Please accept my humble pie apologies. Your observation of this drilling and the fact that any cross-pin would foul the distributor shaft, are most revealing.

On the bush you have removed, is there a matching hole, perhaps with an annular internal or external machining like the c/s babbets? If so, then this explains the screw's function . . . not a "set screw" at all, but a drilling to enable lubrication from the internal oil gallery to be applied to the distributor shaft & bush, and thus requiring the copper washer & screw to seal against oil leakage.

Best wishes,

Ken

 

Ken

No apology necessary.

I went ahead and took a deep breath and drifted out the bushing. My new block came without this bushing so i was unable to determine anything from it. You are absolutely correct concerning the hole for the screw and the one seen on the opposite side of the opening, they have to be for lubrication, there is a small "flat" on one side of the bushing with a small hole to allow for the oil to pass.



Russell

 

Aaah Russell, well done and sincere thanks for the details in your ongoing posts that handed my free-falling memory a much needed parachute. If it wasn't for poor Grant pedaling like mad on his home-made moped-powered microband internet connection, you might have got the "good oil" first time around . . . ah well.

I noted in your pics, a few front journal bearing shells looking nicely worn, but not scuffed or gouged . . . and wondered how your crankshaft miked out? Expect more wear (especially ovality) on the big end pins. Perhaps the most critical bottom end issues beyond bearings, seals and gaskets are ensuring the oil pump is within spec or replaced, insist on new O-rings, and careful pre-setting the rear c/s oil seal . . . and one final potential time bomb is to correctly set the mesh of the distributor shaft, noting that the keyed drive is offset. For the latter, please don't ask how I know . . .

Matching bearing caps, rods etc essential; c/s t/c gear wear might be an issue at 500K miles, but I've not seen it . . . and finally, over the years, I've grown to be a fan of high build liquid gaskets rather than cork etc, but I don't expect everyone to agree . . . the brand I use is quite expensive but foolproof.

Top end is a different matter . . . lots of tips and tricks to bone up on and a few snags to avoid . . . especially on the 8L. If you lodge at least 10 postage stamps at your local Post Office for Grant's internet connection, he will hopefully chime in with all the bits I've forgotten.

Cheers,

Ken

 

On ya Ken.

One legged pedalling has got me all of 14kb/s, oops.

Landline is dead, and the 20th Jan for a maybe fix, HAHAHA.

ADSL is touch and go, and I do what I can when that light goes Green, but man, its SLOOOOOOOOW.

I have always had the bottom end balanced at an engine shop, it costs naturally, but OHHHHHH so smooth when done right.

Front crank pulley (harmonic balancer) is probably toast due to age, and again, I always get them relaminated.

Check the keys and keyways for the snout gear and tapered collar, they do wear.

Oil pump is ALWAYS new, no matter how "good" it looks or measures up.

Top end is simple, and I rarely mess with anything there, other than a stake down kit on both sides.

Obviously more, but a good dose of common sense always works, and forget its a Jaguar, its an internal combustion engine, and needs what it needs.

Daughters S2 4.2 was a 5cyl, then "my spare engine" got fitted, built as per above by me, and run in by an 18yo, and she's still got it, and she is just pushing 30, and still drives it the same, and even though I am biased just a little, it is still soooooo sweet.

 

Ken / Grant

All points well noted, many thanks.

As of today all of the parts are back from the machine shop, the Crankshaft required a polish and no more, the new block was bored to accept new .020" pistons and the cylinder head received new guides and the seats were cleaned up and a hold down kit installed on both intake and exhaust.

Concerning the rear crankshaft seal, i opted to go for the upgrade to the split lip seal, far too easy to justify whilst the engine was in pieces as i would do more than kick myself, not if the rope seal leaked but when. The oil pump is brand new along with new timing chains/guides/tensioner, all new bearings, a full set of Payen gaskets, i also went ahead and purchased from David Manners their recent head stud kit that contain traces of ST/ST to hopefully help with corrosion issues down the road.

I am a little **** about having everything cleaned before assembly, only Saturday it took 4 Hours to clean all of the main caps along with the connecting rods before the new pistons were fitted (to the rods), (i had forgotten how messy assembly lube can be).

As you mention Ken the old bearings were totally worn out and the block is scrap, the amount of sludge in the sump was staggering, i had owned the car for just 12 months before finally getting stuck in and i am very glad i did, a small misfire is now a total engine re-build, just 87000 miles on the car and it's a shame it was treated in such a poor manner by it's previous carers.

This weeks task is to determine how best to re-clean the block prior to installation of all aforementioned components....

Thanks for all the kind words

Russell

 

The only certain way to clean out the block is to remove all the core plugs and the rear cover plate and flush with water and poke around with a piece of wire to break up the crud so it flushes out nicely. Better to do this with the head studs in place, so you don't have to then clear out the tapped holes for the head studs in the bottom of the coolant jacket, (my first mistake !!). Crud accumulates very badly at the back of the block where it is furthest from the pump entry. The rate flow of coolant is very low at the back of the engine.

Is your new block the slotted type ? If so then no worries about cracks between the bores.

If you're facing-off the block deck, make sure you attach the timing cover when it is done as this is part of the face the head butts-up to , and you don't want a lip there that could prevent the gasket from sealing.

 

Forgot, it happens.

I also fit the longer banjo bolts at the rear of the cylinder head for the oil feed. Still readily available I reckon. The original only grab by about 3 threads, and there is abot 1" of thread in the head for each oil passage.

A helicoil fitment is also not uncommon in some I have done.

 

Fraser

The block has come back from the machine shop so has been hot tanked a couple of times already, yes the timing cover was machined along with the block so no worries there. My main concern is cleaning out all of the oil ways so no particles remain to cause damage, i have heard of steam cleaning the but have no access to a steam cleaner unfortunately.

Yes the block is the slotted type and the whole thing was crack tested before purchase.

Russell

 

Russell,

I hae only ever washed the block and heads with HOT soapy water, a bottle brush (long handle style), and a garden hose, and time. Usually takes me an hour to satisfy my fussy ***, and then blow it dry with comp air, paint the outside, and start assembly. The last one was in 40c temps, so an hour out in the sun, dry and preheated, haha. Ready for painting.

The machine shop has done the hard work, as they usually do.

Dont forget the large oil pipes in the sump, they can/will have sludge sitting in wait.

 

Grant

The sump pipes were filthy, i tried to find a bottle brush long enough to be able to whiz all the way through each of them, finally i found on Amazon a CPAP hose cleaning brush that is 5' long, result!!!!!

As for the block you are right, the hot tanking had cleaned most of the crud from the water passages, i will just use the hot soapy water maybe this coming weekend to satisfy my own fussy *** to get the oil passages cleared out. Unfortunately no such luck with 40 degree weather, wet all week and a high of 50F, time to fire up the compressor

Russell

 

A cleaning brush for a 12 Bore shotgun is suitable for the main oil gallery ! When I had my engine in bits, I also had the crankshaft sludge trap plugs removed and then I cleaned these and the oilways. The traps were almost full. According to old Jaguar hands, these sludge traps were one of the worst elements of the design.

 

Fraser

Good idea on the shotgun cleaning kit.

I had to have the oil plugs machined from the crank as they were not able to remove in any other way, this was a little costly i can tell you. I intend to partially fill the voids with either oil or assembly lube or a mixture before placing the crank into the block. i really am concerned with oil delivery upon initial start. Priming the oil pump is going to be tough, if i put something in there then rotating the engine by hand to ensure a smooth feel along with multiple rotations to set the tappet clearances would surely empty the pump, my only hope i think is to crank the engine on the starter by jumping the relay so no fuel is delivered etc which should build the required pressure and oil flow before going ahead with an engine start.

Russell