My 1985 Grey kittycat,not purring yet
 

Guys, I have already introduced myself in the appropriate section of this forum, and I here to make some queries and post some pictures of the car.
Condition of car:
Body: a few dings here and there, one rust spot on the lower part of the driver side front fender near the emblem, three rust bubbles about 1 inch from the windshield right hand lower corner. Will keep my fingers crossed on the rust near the windshield. Paint in good shape. See pics.Does not look as if it was repainted. As per the PO, the car was garaged kept for most of its life?????.
Interior: Floor pans rust free, Front seats destroyed. I have already purchased a pair on Craigslist.
Engine: Does not run yet.
Driver side fuel tank has a leak. Seems repairable. Would know when I remove it.
What have I done so far: Purchased and picked up the car on 10/15/14.

Drained Right side fuel tank. approximately 3 gallons of dark brown varnish came out of tank. Flushed out tank with fresh fuel, replaced fuel filter, blew out fuel lines. Serviced ignition system.
Ignition system OK
Fuel tank switching solenoid: stuck on left side tank. Removed, cleaned and applied some electrical spray lube. Solenoid now switches from left to right tanks.
No power to fuel pump: opened on cleaned relay with electrical spray lube. Fuel pump is now working. Will have to check Fuel pressure. (have to purchase a fuel pressure gauge) Fuel now gets up front to fuel rail. Compression Check: Average 110 psi on all 6 cylinders.
Vacuum Test: 20 in/hg

Engine oil and filter change 20/50 weight oil.

Thanks to Doug I performed a fuel delivery test. Ign 'on' Gear shifter in drive, open flap in AFM. Got fuel (Don't know how much yet) but it seems healthy.
Cranked engine and car started immediately. Ran for about 2 minutes and died. FPR is stuck closed. No fuel is getting back to tank. Sprayed the FPR with WD 40 to see if it would free up. So far it no good. Applied about 30 in/hg to FPR and it would not open. Will purchase or order one tomorrow.
I am sure it is a fuel issue, because if i spray fuel into the intake I can keep the car running until I stop spraying.
Next step: I am going to remove the injectors to see if they got clogged up by residual crap that did not get flushed out of the tank and.or lines.
I will try to narrow down the problem after I replace the FPR and do a Fuel pressure check.

If anything i did as stated above is incorrect please feel free to correct and/or make any comments you wish.
In the meantime here are some pics of the car>

OK, Went to Manage attachments and for some reason it is not allowing me to upload the pics. Will try with my next post.
Thanks

Good work on all counts :)


Cheers
DD

Thank you Doug. A question to all. Can I remove the fuel rail with all of the injectors and electrical connections attached and crank the engine to verify if they are all spraying fuel? Or should the injectors be tested individually. I am thinking that after I replace the FPR, I can use an additional length of fuel hose for the return line, flip the rail slightly up and test. Is this a dumb idea?
Tired to upload pics, but it stays stuck on "Uploading file/s Please Wait" Is it that the jpg file is too big?

to the moderator/s: need some advice on how to upload some pics. This is what I have done so far. I go to "manage attachments" Browse to find the file I want to upload, click on the file then "OPEN" and it just stays stuck on "Uploading file/s Please Wait" and I wait and wait.............................................. .....and wait. Thanks.

Yes






Not dumb, as it gives 100% positive verification that the injectors work, but it's a fair bit of work.

If you have correct fuel pressure at the rail (36 psi in your case) and the injectors operate in termis of electrics (evidenced by clicking) it's a 90% bet that they are spraying fuel.



I *think* you need to have xx-number of postings before you can add pictures.

Cheers
DD

If you are going that far into the injectors, i would,just as a might as well while in here job, replace the fuel lines. Its going to be so much easier if everything's not jammed in around the intake!!!

To Doug: thanks again.
To DarrenMB: That's a must. I already purchased enough FI hose to replace every piece of hose on the fuel supply and return system. Added to that I will be replacing all vacuum lines.

Update:
Results of tests performed on my Series III
Fuel Pressure Test:
Nominal Fuel Pressure Cold @ Fuel Pump Outlet 100-120 PSI
Fuel Pressure Cold @ Fuel Rail Nipple for cold start injector 40 psi
No idle issue resolved by replacing Rubber hose from MAF to Elbow.
Injectors spraying properly.
Car Starts and runs.As the engine warms up, fuel pressure begins to drop. At around 20 psi it stalls out.
If i let the car rest for about 5-10 minutes the fuel pressure goes back up to 40 psi, car starts and idles until the pressure starts to drop. At 20 psi the engine shuts off. I am now going to assume that the pump is faulty. If so, which pump should I get?.
I am yet to check what is going on at the pump outlet when the pressure drops. Have to make up an inline connection at the pump to see if it is the pump.
I took my FPR to a Bosch mechanic and he applied air to the inlet of the FPR and he said that the regulator was working as it should.
How much air pressure he applied he would not say. All I heard was a pop when he applied air pressure and air came out the outlet side.
With the key 'on' tranny in 'drive' when I move the flap at the AFM I can hear the fuel going back on the return line. Is this how it should be?
Is my pump bad? Is the new filter clogged? Is it the FPR? Will be performing additional tests to narrow down the fuel pressure issue and post the results. In the mean time suggestions are more than welcome.

Doing pretty durn good. Some comments:


1. I think you are on the right track as to fuel supply. The numbers you mention are OK. But, if tested in a failed mode would probably be low. You drained the goop out of the tanks. that is the place to start. The tanks feed the pump via gravity. Those lines, the pump, the filter and the line going forward are suspect. If you have an air supply, you can open each segment and purge it. Don't forget the changer over valve.


2. Wild card. The filler caps fit tightly, no leaks. The vent lines to the carbon canister up front are plugged. A vacuum builds in the tank. Comes a point when the pump can not overcome it and fuel delivery ceases. Easy test. Open the caps and run the engine. If it doesn't stall, here it is. Gotta clear the lines.


3. WD40 is relied on by many to function outside it's design. It was/is a desicant. The light solvent does help just a tad and a penetrant but there are better choices. And, WD40 has a new variety as a penetrant. Two products, similar names, different uses.


Carl

OK. The switchover was cleaned WD40'd and is now functional. I am only using the right hand tank as there are signs of leakage on the left tank. I will get to that after I get the engine running right. Back to what JagCad suggested, When I open the right side tank cover while diagnosing the fuel issue I hear a "whoosh". Is that normal or do u think I should inspect the charcoal canister? In other words the tank should not get pressurized?
All of the supply and return lines have been flushed clean and blown out with 90 psi air.
Fuel pressure drops with the tank cover open or closed.

Here is something weird: During the testing to get to the point where I am at now, I noticed the following; If I crank the engine, I hear the pump coming on and running but it does not build the initial pressure (40 psi) stated in my last post. I placed a second battery in the trunk disconnected the green/white wire and powered the pump directly. It built the pressure instantly 40 psi at the rail. I am thinking that the green/white wire has a high resistance with just enough power to run the pump at a slower speed hence low fuel pressure. All of the tests/results in my last post were done with the pump connected directly to the second battery The green/white wire is the least of my problems at this time. I will test and replace after I resolve the fuel issue. Am I testing the fuel pressure incorrectly by powering up the pump directly?

Nope.

The fuel pump doesn't know or care where the power comes from, so to speak, so long as there's enough of it to work!

The spec is 36 psi while cranking the engine

Cheers
DD

Re: the woosh when opening the gas cap...the jag pressurizes the tank to about 3psi while operating, so the woosh is normal, so long as it is blowing out and not sucking into the tank.

I am going to replace the fuel pump on the car. Has anyone used the URO CBC5657 or
CB 5657X fuel pump on their car. If so I need some feedback. I see Jagbits and a couple other companies has them for sale. I did some research and found that this pump is made by WALBRO.

Walbro is a fie old company that has made fuel things for decades for all kinds of critters.


Or:


A NOS or good used Bosch from David Boger. everydayxj!!


Carl

The one I sell at Jagbits is the original pump so you will get exactly what came on the car when new that way you don't have to cut off the connectors and splice...use this coupon code for a 5% discount and free shipping also FORUMS-5%

So, its definitely my fuel pump. This morning I installed two fuel filters (Carquest 86299)
on the outlets of each fuel tank before the switchover valve, and filter #3 on the line to the fuel rail. The same problem exists. When cold I have 40 psi on the rail ans as the engine runs the fuel pressure drops to around 20psi and the engine dies. The pump is heating up so I guess that it pulled some crud from the tank when I initially was troubleshooting the no start problem or it happened with the PO. I am shopping for a new fuel pump. The original pump Bosch #0580464014 can be had here in Florida for anywhere between $289 and $348 depending on who you deal with. That is half the cost of my Series III. I did some more research and as per the manufacturers the following pumps are an aftermarket replacement for the Bosch pump at a fraction of the cost.
URO CBC5657
Walbro GSL392
AIP FP109
All three cost under $100
Jagbits has one that cost about $150 or somewhere close. He said in his post that "his pump is the original pump". So that should mean it is a Bosch pump which is the OEM part for 1985 Series III. At least that is what the OEM part is.
My question is which pump should I purchase?
I am leaning towards Jagbits since he is a forum member or contributor, but I have not seen any feedback from members on this forum regarding which pump they have successfully used. I did see posts where a couple of members had negative views on aftermarket pumps and high speed driving.
To Gary @ JagBits, what is your delivery time to Florida.
I am also looking for a Fuel pressure Regulator Bosch #0280160229. If you have this item please let me know so I can purchase both at the same time if the price is right.
BTW> I still can't post any pictures. Is there a specific picture size? i think my phone pictures are too large. I don't know.

I sell the regulator on the website under part number EAC4864 for $119.95 the pump is CBC5657 $138.71 the pump does not come in a Bosch box any more.

@Jagbits: Do you have both the pump and FPR in stock?
FYI: I borrowed a pump from a friend of mine and its doing the same thing. After a few minutes of running the pressure drops to 20 psi and the car stalls out. I also noticed that my return line in tank on has a dribble of fuel coming out. I blew out that line and I am going to do it again. THE LAST TIME i DID IT i APPLIED PRESSURIZED AIR TO THE RETURN LINE AND FUEL WAS BLOWING OUT OF THE SUPPLY LINE AT THE RAIL. OUT OF THE EQUATION WAS THE FPR. Could it be that since it is doing the same thing with two pumps that the problem is elsewhere? Maybe the FPR? but then if it is staying open I should see fuel at the return in the tank. I am stumped. but not giving up. I really don't want to spend money unnecessarily. I am not one to just throw parts at the problem and hope it will be solved. Any suggestions?

I do have both in stock, I don't have the answer to your diagnoses questions though sorry, maybe someone else can help??/

Here are some pictures of my 85 Series III. I don't know what happened to the three attached images what did i do wrong