XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

New Right Tank Sending Unit!

 
  #1  
Old 07-23-2016, 04:02 PM
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Default New Right Tank Sending Unit!

As I mentioned in another thread last week, Nix came to me with only one fuel gauge working, the left one. This was a bit annoying because she draws more from the left tank than the right, and I'm never sure exactly how much gas I have left before I embarrass myself running out of gas.

I checked the wiring, sticking the hot and ground together and the needle pegged on FULL immediately. OK, it's the sending unit.

Husband ordered a new one from SNG Barret, #DACS5498, sending unit for the Right tank. It arrived last week, I put it in this morning.

The hold up was the need to create a tool. Andrew (Tar) gave me a good idea here:
Originally Posted by Tar View Post
For what it's worth as far as fabricating the tool: I picked up a segment of exhaust pipe at the auto parts store (basically a metal tube about 4 inches long and about 2 inches in diameter, of which they have a variety of sizes, for small-scale exhaust pipe repairs) and did as follows: into one end, cut three equally-spaced notches (corresponding to the three tabs on the sender lock ring), and at the other end a pair of notches opposite each other, in which a screwdriver or similar could be fitted to turn the "tool". It worked pretty well.

Best, Andrew
Thank you, Andrew, it worked like a charm!

First I had to make the tool to get the old unit out of the car. Mine looked like this:



Trial fit of the locking ring;

Perfect Fit!

There was still a bit of gas in that tank, I knew there wasn't much, so I parked Nix's nose out the garage door with her head down. The gas gauge is about half way up the back of the tank and this maneuver tipped the gauge opening up far enough so no gas came out.


Here are the old and new sending units. The old brass float still floated but it didn't work anyway so the rheostat is bad. Shocking after a mere 40 years!


Getting the new sending unit back in the tank was not as easy as getting the old one out, and that wasn't the easiest job I've ever done on this car. The sending unit is back in a hole and around the corner, and the locking ring Refused to seat and start!

So I got a pair of vise grips and bent the bead out of the way, but NOT at the locking points.

The red arrows indicate locking tangs on the tank, green arrows show where I bent the steel out of the way so the new ring would engage the sending unit.



When I turned the key and pushed the switch, I discovered I still had 1/4 tank, about 3 of so gallons! I could drive a couple days on that!
(';')
 
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2016, 01:27 AM
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Nice work. How do you drive the new tool ? A hole for a rod
or a strap and nut welded to the upper end for a proper socket
to drive it?


Noooooo, don't drive it to the bare bottom..... much debris to pickup and cause mischief upstream.


Worked in my shop about 15 minutes. Ugh, much too hot, even in the shade.... The removable alloy disc on the blade opening on my band saw no longer fits??? The slot is askew about 1/4 ". Why, I dunno. My fixing of an alignment shoe??? But, that should not be.
That happened on the other "blade side"???


Bodge? File the slot til it fits... When it gets cooler.


Need to go to market. Better get at it early in AM... It was/is hot....


Carl
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:18 AM
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Thank you, Carl,
I knew someone would ask me that!
The slots on the other end didn't show up will in the picture, did they.

As Andrew recommended there are 2 slots on the back, but as it was around the corner and in a hole I had to use the curved head of a pair of water pump pliers to turn it getting the old one out and final seating of the new ring.

It's a bit Micky Mouse true, but there was no way to turn a screw driver hard enough to get the old ring out that way.

Besides. Being a mere woman I frequently have to do things in strange ways to get the job done: Work-arounds.
(';')
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 09:31 AM
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Slick !!


1. Workarounds not limited to women. The word "mere" when used with Women is repugnant. Or perhaps oxymoronic!!


2. I like the label. Might not be recognized as a tool and be dumped as an unknown???


3. Leverage is everything. "Giver me a place to stand and I'll.....".


Carl
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 12:53 PM
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Concerning running tanks to empty, on my series 2, I do run them to empty! My thinking is that crap will accumulate in a tank if it is allowed to! I would rather get the water and crap out on a regular basis and prevent a major failure. At the first hint of hesitation - hit the change over switch.
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:51 PM
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My tanks are plumbed together and the engine draws from both more or less equally. The switch only changes which sender is read on the dash, there is no valve.

As much gas as I run through that car there's no opportunity for the detritus you mention to collect. In winter when I'm not driving her, I fill the tanks to the brim so no moisture can accumulate on the sides and sink to the bottom. So far so good!
(';')
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
A
Thank you, Andrew, it worked like a charm!
Glad it worked! I suppose future makers of this tool might want to use a longer piece of pipe, so it sticks out of the body far enough to more easily engage a screwdriver or other lever.

Though my (left-hand) sender didn't work before I removed it, a good cleaning of the red (rusty?) crust all over it seemed to restore it (or at least that's what the multimeter said: a full range of resistance values per spec). Also, I was glad to see, looking into the tank, that I do NOT have a rust problem (yet).
Anyway like you I put in a new sender, and the old one is in the rafters as a spare.
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:31 PM
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Thank you, Andrew,
A longer pipe wouldn't have worked in my fender, in fact I had to shorten this one.

I'm sure it's the difference between S2 and S3, but for the pipe to sit flat on the locking ring it has to be almost completely inside the fender. Hence no room for screwdriver or any other long object to turn it.

I was a bit concerned about getting it all sealed up as I've never changed a sending unit so low on the tank before. They've always been near or on the top. But after filling to the brim and putting it in an enclosed garage, this evening there's not even a hint of raw gas smell, only carburetor bowl boil on a hot engine as usual; one of those warm, comforting smells from my childhood, the smell of a Real car.

Thank you again for your Most Helpful suggestion!
(';')
 
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Old 07-24-2016, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by littlelic69 View Post
Concerning running tanks to empty, on my series 2, I do run them to empty! My thinking is that crap will accumulate in a tank if it is allowed to! I would rather get the water and crap out on a regular basis and prevent a major failure. At the first hint of hesitation - hit the change over switch.
Just puzzled, if you are deliberately running tanks down do you change filters more often or after this event?

I ask because I inadvertently ran a tank dry and then had problems a few months later with crud in the system.

Probably depends what carbs you have also, some are more sensitive than others.
 

Last edited by yarpos; 07-24-2016 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:49 PM
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A nice fix, Elinor and Andrew. I like the added satisfaction of making a tool and it actually works!

My gauge reads just sort of 3/4 when the tank is full - both sides. It's on my to-do list. This will be very useful if either of the senders is found to be the culprit
 

Last edited by jagent; 07-25-2016 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jagent View Post
A nice fix, Elinor and Andrew. I like the added satisfaction of making a tool and it actually works!

My gauge reads just sort of 3/4 when the tank is full - both sides. It's on my to-do list. This will be very useful if either of the senders is found to be the culprit
On my list too, the left tank reads 3/4 when full and has 20 litres left when reading empty. I just flick over to right tank when gauge reaches empty and know I have a 20 litre reserve should the need ever arise .
 
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:47 PM
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Thank you, Tony,
I think you'll find the gauge is Not the reason you only get a 3/4 reading. This new gauge reads the same as the other one does and I filled Both tanks past shutoff (hard to do in California!).

I CAN get a truly FULL tank, but I have to work at it.

If conditions are just right (quiet) so that I can hear when the tank is actually full, I could always get the left tank to read pegged FULL (it was too noisy to do that yesterday).

This also requires not opening the valve fully, especially after it's stopped once, but only about half, and allowing gas to flow into the tank slowly, especially near the top, so it didn't splash on the nozzle and trip the shutoff.

>WHEW<
Now that I write it up, it sounds Very complected! It's not really, I guess you just need to see me do it once.

EDIT: When you look into the tank through the filler you see the bottom of the anti-theft device. This is the culprit not allowing the tanks to be filled completely. Gas gets to a certain level and splashes off the bottom of this thing tripping the shutoff.

That's why the need to proceed slowly if you want that last 2 or 3 gallons in each tank.
/Edit
(';')
 

Last edited by LnrB; 07-25-2016 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:18 PM
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The question is, why on earth would Jaguar build in a shutoff device which results in a less than full tank, and then fail to calibrate the gauge to read full at that point? Even though it would only be a virtual fill, it is clearly as far as the manufacturer intends you to go, therefore it should indicate "full".

As with many Jag quandaries, my question is of course rhetorical!

As it is, the temptation to overfill as you suggest will always exist. And yes, I've done the trickle trick several times to squeeze more in, the level is easy to monitor by eye as it fills. Maybe I haven't gone far enough (i.e. to overflowing) in order to get a full reading on the gauge. Bizarre.
 
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:30 PM
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My guess would be that petrol pumps in the old days were a lot slower than the current ones, and the cut off not so sensitive.

I've got a NOS fuel sender somewhere......
 
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:52 PM
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I'm thinking this is one of those little annoyances that tell us, "This is Truly a British car!"

Or, it could be Senders By Lucas.

Had I known at the time I could have bent the wire to show full, but I would always know it's not Really full, and that would annoy me more.

I wonder whose bright idea this was? I wonder if he got a bonus?
(';')
 
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Old 07-25-2016, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
On my list too, the left tank reads 3/4 when full and has 20 litres left when reading empty. I just flick over to right tank when gauge reaches empty and know I have a 20 litre reserve should the need ever arise .
Once when Nix was still new to us I thought I would find what her effective range was considering only one working sender. I filled both tanks to the max using the technique described above so the Left tank read Full, put the can of mower gas in the trunk and drove for over a week not taking any unusual precautions.

At the end of about 10 days I had 417 miles on; the only working gauge at the time, the Left one, got down to just a hair above absolute Zero (the needle hadn't moved in several days) and I was still going with nary a sputter. But I chickened out and filled up.

Max capacity we're told is 12 US gallons per tank. I put 12.3 in the Left tank (the one that draws fastest) filling it to the brim as before and 11.6 in the right; 23.9 gallons! I was quite astonished!

That was a good solid 17mpg which I didn't think was bad considering how I drive. Since that time the vacuum advance was renewed resulting in even better fuel economy, but I seldom check such things anymore, I just put in gas as needed.
(';')
 
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Old 07-25-2016, 11:07 PM
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I don't think it is the Jaguar's rank that shuts off the fueling nozzle.
Smog era nozzles are built to shut down just short of full. Spillage not conducive to clean air and creates a need for refining more fuel.


There was a time before the auto cut off and hands free nozzles.


That was the case when I worked at a full service station in my last years of college. We trained our ears to hear the right gurgle. As full as possible with no spill. Boss wanted as much fuel as possible dispensed to keep the franchise guy happy. But, customers got irritated on spillage on pristine new Packards and the like.


I still have the knack and contrary to printed instructions, top off the tanks. Nowadays, budget allowing. Not so hard at today's $'s, but at close to 5 bucks a gallon, yup!!


New to me 4 buck Olympus camera works. Nigh on to ten bucks
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Now an AC cable??? down loads eat juice, fast.


Tossed a bunch of "chargers" a bit back. Merely 20 to 6v ina lot ofd cases. Might have one left???.


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I have almost enough "kit' to swap out the outboard 51/4's for 7's.
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Carl
 
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post
I don't think it is the Jaguar's rank that shuts off the fueling nozzle.
Smog era nozzles are built to shut down just short of full. Spillage not conducive to clean air and creates a need for refining more fuel.
...
Carl
! Thank you, Carl, I hadn't thought of that!
It explains quite a lot actually!
(';')
 
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post
.....Smog era nozzles are built to shut down just short of full.
Carl
oops, need to start again (below)
 

Last edited by jagent; 07-26-2016 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JagCad View Post
.....Smog era nozzles are built to shut down just short of full.
Carl
That's quite correct. The difference with my other cars, past and present, is the fuel gauges are designed to read full at the shut off point.

Another modern change is deletion of the old trigger catch that used to allow locking the nozzle in action while you wander around attending to more engaging pursuits, like checking tyres, water etc.
 

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