1984 Series 3 XJ6 US model Vanden Plas.

So I am re-doing the front suspension and I've gotten through the destruction and am working my way to reassembly. I have virtually all the bolts and nuts from the suspension with significant rust and I don't trust most of them though they came off (with a few notable exceptions) easily enough. So I want to replace them with new. That's problem, but I'll get to that after a detour to shims.

Shims:
I am replacing the upper and lower ball joints with the Lemforder ones that don't need re-greasing adjusting etc. On the lower, when I took the old ball joint off, there were two thin shims. I saved them and they are in good shape. Question is do I use them with the newer style? I don't think so, but I know there's someone out there that did that replacement who knows.

Now back to Nuts and Bolts:

So I need a ton of nuts and bolts. Problem is the Parts manual identifies them only as "Nut" or "Bolt". No specifics on sizes for me to hunt for. I learned that at least as to the Bolts I can type in the Part Number on the interweb and get the dimensions. But I don't know if I can do it for all of them.

So Question 1 is does anyone know how to properly measure a bolt and a nut to make sure I get the proper size? I have no idea how to do it so that when I go to my local nut and bolt place I can see if they have it. (I do know I want grade 5 or better, grade 8 if I can get it)

Question 2 is does anyone have a tip on how to actually lay hands on these? Local Hardware is going to be hit and miss at best and interweb sells them by the 100 so I don't need that. Anyone who's done the front suspension and has some advice on this aspect I'd love to hear.

 

Shims: If the shims you mean are the ones that came out of the ball joints, I simply chucked them with the old ball joints.
If you mean the alignment shims fore and aft the upper ball joints (there are 3 on each side), those are critical to caster adjustment. I made note of the arrangement and put them back the way I found them. With all new parts and bushings the final measurement was well within specs needing no further meddling.

Bolts: If you find a *Fastener* store (we have 2 within 30 miles one way or the other), and take examples of what you need, they will be Delighted to sell you as many as you need of each one, whether fine or course thread, in whatever length you want.

All my bolts were Well treated with Automatic Rust Prevention (decades of engine/PS oil leaks) and came off/out with little problem after I broke loose the original factory torque.
(';')

 

Muttony:

Elinor has it down pat. She has been there and done that.

1. Aye, the original ball joints did include shims to seat them properly. The Lemfords, a bit different and "lubed for life" do not. Toss the joints and shims, avoid clutter with useless stuff. Caveat, I am not good at that.

2. For sure, as to suspension parts, only the best. Nuts and bolts included. I am nt sue if our source is still there. I used to go there often. "The Screw Shop" in nearby Concord, CA.

But, our local ACE franchise hardware store has a great selection of nuts and bolts.
From unrated to 8. iron or SS. NC or NF. When I need one or more, I usually take a test nut or bolt to select nd fit what I need. .

Caveat. Grade 8 is super strong, hard. But at a cost, brittle.

So, in the absence of Jag spec's. think. In shear or in tension, Or neither, just locators. :

Carl

 

Don't forget to tap out the balljoint bearing ring that is pressed into the hub carrier from below; the ball butts up to this. Usually a tap downwards with a small hammer will remove it. The Lemforder joints just bolt on, being a typical "fit and forget" modern component and no adjustment is needed, only a regular inspection of the rubber boot. The Lemforder joints need fixing with shorter screws, those from the old joints are no good for this. Most kits come with the correct screws that also have a locking compound on them that takes effect when the screws are tightened up; tab washers are not used.

Bolt lengths s are measured from underneath the hexagon to the end. For diameter use a caliper gauge or micrometer, a steel rule is no good. Set screws look like bolts but the thread goes along the whole length. In my old parts book most bolts had a code that when translated, gave you the length in 1/8" increments plus the diameter. All those on the suspension will be Unified thread e.g. 5/16 UNF, a very common size. Some bolts that are special in some way just have a part number; be careful about these as they may require to be made of special steel.

Nuts take the dimensions of the bolt, but the flats follow fixed sizes, (larger than the nut "size" obviously. So a 5/16 UNF nut usually takes a 1/2" spanner. You will probably have found some Nyloc nuts when dismantling. Throw these away and replace, they should not be reused.

 

There is a little tool that looks like a feeler guage with each one having a saw tooth design. You hold that up to the bold and find the one that's threads match your bolt. Stamped on the blade is the number of teeth per inch. Get the standard thread chart and you will be able to easily identify the "name" of the bolt. Or just take it to the store and find the one that threads on.

 

I looked it up. It's called a thread gauge or thread pitch gauge. Lowes has them for $5. I use mine all the time.

 

Well, I spent my evening going through the Parts Manual and looking up the sizes of the nuts and bolts from various suppliers and have come up with:



Fraser, do you have any idea as to the length of those shorter lower ball joint set bolts? Manual says old ones were 1".

 

We are a little spoiled in the southwest because we don't have the rust issues, so i like to reuse the factory fasteners in my projects as much as possible. There is a fair amount of engineering that goes into fasteners and I am not a fan of second guessing the OE engineer if I can avoid it.

Sometimes, however, new fasteners are a necessity, and like you, I've put a spreadsheet together and ordered fasteners on line from these folks-

https://www.boltdepot.com

If you're contemplating substituting stainless fasteners, I'd be very careful not to use them where there's any significant structural load - spring pan bolts come to mind. Strength and galling are issues.

A couple of other suggestions for reusing factory fasteners-

-Glass bead the factory fasteners to remove rust. This usually removes the factory cadmium plating so I spray some clear on the fastener before I install it. It isn't perfect and my not hold up well in really wet environments, but it helps. (I know this means having a glass bead cabinet, or better yet having a friend with one, but this is one of the most used tools I have in my home shop.)

-You can take your fasteners to a local chrome or metal treatment shop and have them "pickeled" to remove all the corrosion. I've had this done and then had the fasteners recoated in tin-zinc for corrosion protection. This is the ideal solution.

-Harbor Freight sells a vibrating small parts cleaner in a couple of different sizes (they are popular with reloaders to clean shell casings before reloading) I've used the HF parts cleaner with walnut shells and a little glass bead as a medium and the parts come out quite nice and polished (they sell crushed walnut shells as reptile bedding at the pet store for a very reasonable price) The HF parts cleaner is noisy as hell and I usually leave it out in the shop running for a couple of nights for best results.

Hope this helps somebody dealing with old fasteners on their projects..........

 

I have a set of these too and I often chase/clean threads with it, but it is also very handy for determining thread pitch-

https://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemD...SABEgLtr_D_BwE

 

everytime I need bolts or nuts I go to ACE HARDWARE. They have a giant selection of either in different grades. Otherwise I go to
FASTENALL.

Both can find out thread count and size because they do it all day long.

 

Regarding the reuse of threaded fasteners, you can soak them in oil and then get a cheap set of taps and dies from Harbor Freight and run a die up and down a few times and the threads are clean. Cheap taps and dies won't cut new threads but are fine for cleaning old ones. Just be sure the bolt is solid, no galling, etc. The post above is correct about not using stainless for load bearing bolts. Also, I suggest buying name brand fasteners for critical (things that can kill you) situations. Metallurgy is a complicated science and you don't want to mistakenly use fasteners that can fail. I use Hillman bolts and nuts. Lowes carries them. Name brand and been doing it for years. Their fasteners probably are actually made in the Third World but at least they are manufactured to US specs.

 

My apologies to our non-US fellow Jaguar owners. I did not mean to imply that the US is the only place that has high quality fasteners. I am sure that every region of the world has both high quality and low quality parts available. I'll try not to be so US centric in the future.

 

I have included the SAE torque chart which is good to print out and tack to your toolbox for quick reference:

 

Very interesting. I have never seen torque recommendations for dry vs lubricated. Our maintenance manual calls for lug nuts to be torqued to 60 to 80 ft/lbs. You are not supposed to lubricate the lug nut studs but every one I've ever seen is gooey. So I guess that counts as semi-lubricated and matches the range for grade 5 threads.

 

Lubricated wheel lugs? A long standing debate !

Some insist...sometimes quite vehemently.... that wheel lugs never be lubricated. I think this recommendation stems from a possible scenario where excessive glopping of lubricant could prevent a closed-end lugnut from being properly torqued down. The globs of grease become trapped inside the closed-end lugnut and create a (for lack of proper words) hydro-lock situation. As you tighten the nut you're not clamping the wheel; you're clamping the grease.

I dunno. Just my thought.

Personally, since I loathe rusty threads, I always put small smear of grease on the lug studs. Some use anti-seize or high-specification lubes....but old fashioned wheel bearing grease has always seemed OK to me. Even a couple drops of motor oil will work.

Some will argue that the lubricant affects your torque specs and so forth. No doubt true but wheel nut torque specs simply are not precise to begin with....at least not on our older cars. The manuals always show a wide acceptable torque range; 65-77 pounds, or 62-72 pounds or whatever.....you get the idea. Pick a middle number and go with it.

I know that I'm a bit nonchalant about some things but If something bad is 'supposed' to happen as a result of lubricated wheel studs, I've never heard it, seen it, or felt it

Cheers
DD

 

A couple of decades ago, I began to apply Antiseize to lug nuts.

Decades,. before none. just dry was fine.

Why, escapes me, at this stage of life.

No issues with either !!!

Albeit, multi talented son insists anti seize on lug nuts defeats friction, needed for security!!!

Carl,

 

And he may very well be right.

Being woefully under-informed on a vast number of subjects I often find myself caught in a quandary between theory and my own real-world experience. I've determined that, for myself, there are a lot of things that it just isn't very important to be 'right' about....because being 'wrong' so often never results in anything bad happening.

This isn't a disparagement of those who DO know (and follow) what is right, mind you.

My nonchalance (on this and many other subjects) is just a reflection of my own life experience. There was a time in my life when I was a lot more concerned about a lot of things! Nowadays I'm more selective about the things I fuss over. I like it that way

Cheers
DD

 

When I did my suspension, I went to ACE hardware with my old samples. On the wall of the bolt aisle there is a thread finder board. Just take the old bolts and thread it into the thread finder board, note the size, then find the length. Measure from under the hex to the tip of the bolt for the correct length. Most of the bolts on the Jaguar will be UNF. Grade #8 should be okay.
Fastenall is another place you can check for your Bolts and Nuts.

No shims needed for the Lemforder Ball Joints. Remember to remove the old lower ball joint seat from the hub carrier. Tap it out from the top.
My Lemforder Ball Joints came with the bolts, I believe they were 3/4 inch long but it has been over 3 years since I did them.

 

Not sure if this will help anyone. I didn't read it in detail recently but doesn't really detail what each bolt is for, size etc. Got to start somewhere. Compliments of the Coventry Foundation. You can download from thread #3.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...s-such-213403/

 

Years ago, on another forum, the issue of wet torque values vs dry torque.

I happened to recall that the factory manual for my Jeep mentioned this and had a table. Not much difference as I recall. for sure on the lug nuts, either within any usual spec's. Those can get "touchy" on cars with small and thin hub/rotors. Warp!!

As to wheel lugs, My "X" wrenches served for decades. On and off. Only relatively recently, Impact to remove and torque wrench to replace...

Aye, at times I miss my "blast cabinet". A lot of time and a few bucks spent there. Rolling stand with a pair of locking casters, tp include a space for the shop vac. Essential. I added a small fluorescent lamp inside. The external incandescent not very helpful with medium flying!!

My big wire wheel did a lot. Alas, it seems to have perished. Powered by the power head of a defunct radial arm saw. I had a method of clamping to apart on my "bash bench". A big chunk of " I" beam!! Bolted to the reinforced top. It also has a chunk of RR track, curt to resemble an anvil. The I beam part is also my weld table.

Carl .