Those blasted horns again!
 

Hello!!

So its been a while since i looked at me horn issue. Yes. Another horn post.

I have a few days off as I am sick so i figured i would pull off the trim and revisit and have a good look as I feel a bit more confident.

NOTE: I do remember hearing the relay switch when i pressed the horn button last time around.

So on taking off the trim i found what i presume is the ground wire, as i had done some reading in posts a while back. BUT its not attached to anything I also got some residue of some metal. See pics. I figure this is part of a grounding that is evident on the steering column.

There are two and only one seems incomplete.

Now i don't know wether me messing with the trim dis-lodged an already broken contact.

So. Can I stick this wire into the top contact? will this work? Or do i have to attach the broken bit to the original contact somehow?

The original owner said the horn stopped working all i can think is that it may have happened when they stuck in the alarm system that is pictured or even the Nardi wheel.

Any help please to get these blasted horns working and i owe you a beer!

Chris


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Get well. Sick ain't good.

You are on track, as I "understand" the horn circuit. The pad in the Jag wheel depress a rod. That makes the ground. Not quite. It must be transmitted to the relay. The brass "shoe" that is busted in your pictures completes the ground,

I suspect the PO's install of the Nardi fouled the circuit!!!

Does the center of the Nardi depress and suggest the engagement of the rod to start the ground completion process ? If, no,. a fix of the shoe will be for naught.

My Jaguar's horns are silent. As I don't favor horns, not an issue. And I so seldom use one, I'm not sure the ones in my Jeep work!!!!

Apologies for the gratuitous comments.
Carl

Hi carl

how can I test if the rod is making a ground contact? Visually the horn button depresses.

also can I use the:other" ground plate further up the stearing colum in the picture for the ground of the horns??

I only want the horns working as I have found drivers here to be really unaware of their surroundings and a lack of understanding of what a signal light does hahah


thank you carl

!!!

Did not realize there were two "grounding shoes" down there !!

And yes, with a test lamp you can test. Double whatever? Simple two lead lamp. I've a couple I made in my electrics box . Try the + on the lamp to battery +. and the - leg tot he shoe. Depress the horn button. Does the lamp light? If so, great, Use it to complete the ground circuit to the horn relay.

Inattention at the signal. Sure are. I just rely on the patience I've acquired over the decades. Or, someone behind me toots. usually,. they awaken and move on. I must fess up, I've snoozed at the light!!!

To each his/her own.. Live and let live and all that stuff !!!

Chores done for the most part. Billy got his breakfast, happy goat. Coco got his, happy dog. Me too!! happy guy.

Will play in my shop a bit.. LED yard lights continue to intrigue me...

Carl ..

Hi Carl

so I attached my light tester. It has a negative and positive connection so I stuck these on to the battery. When I get a live connection it goes red and green for negative.

so. I touched both ground brackets on the stearing column and I get a ground (green light)
if I touch the ground bracket with the horn ground wire that is lose I can hear the switch relay flicking it no horn.

if I have the ground cable on the ground bracket top or the broken one and press the horn button i get nothing, no relay switching sound.

what would you suggest next? It seems I am getting a connection to the relay but nothing from the horn button.

thank you. And yes. Being ill sucks. Especially when my dog wants walkies! Hahah

I think you have two faults. I was curious as to what that device was. I could not rotate the picture and read the print!! Far more sophisticated than my stuff, Although I do have a similar device to check house wiring for correct polarity installation . It has served me well. Never thought it might work on my critters!!

1. There is an unwanted ground in the column. So the horns tooted when not wanted. PO disconnected the ground at the column. The hard way in my estimation.


2. A problem at the horn relay r the horns themselves. Inaction can do that.

Check your S57 schematic. For the power at the relay and the horns themselves.

3. There is an in line fuse just above the battery in m y car. These can either blow or just go open???

Yeah, my Coco delight is his walks. Me in tow!!!

Carl

If the relay clicks but the horns remain silent, you have problems downstream of the relay.

Does the relay still click if you press the horn button?



Try it and see !

If not, repair/reinstall the other contact finger and attach the wire.

I've never really gotten my head wrapped around what goes on in the column with those two contact fingers. I know the fingers contact rings that are installed on the inner column, and that sometimes the rings slip out of place....causing the horns to sound at all times. The usual fix is to pull one of the wires. But none of this is helping you.

Someone posted some pics of the inner column workings...perhaps in the XJS section? It might help you but, for me, I still can't figure it out.

Cheers
DD

I have a very rough idea as to what goes on in the column as to horn grounding.

Everything insulated. If it breaks or wears, oh toot, toot unwanted,

Pressing the wheel button depresses a rod. It makes a contact at the inside base of the column. the side opposite goes to a shoe. And that keeps the ground complete with the wheel turning.

I'm not sure that a clicking relay means it works. It may have an "open" inside. I got a look into one of those neat 4 pin units. Same e;ectromechanical as in the tin Lucas cases. But, oh, so teeny....

The thought occurred to me. Jag horns will not toot unless the key is on.

And, Chris, if you are so inclined, get down and under at the horns.

1. Give them a whack with a rubber mallett.
2. Jump 12v tot he posts.

Mine tooted, but only that way... Not from the column.

Carl

Carl.

that little tab in the last picture is the steering column ground for the horn.

it must make continuous contact with the inner steering column, the column shaft that is inside the steering column Tube.
if it broke off, it will be difficult to repair, not impossible, but very difficult. You might need to drop the entire steering column to either spot weld it or rivet it.

Contact David, for a replacement steering Tube.

Can i use the higher up contact thats not broken for ground?

Thanks again!

Hi Doug

Can i just use the higher bracket that is not damaged for a ground??

Thanks again!

try it, worse that can happen is you blow the fuse.

I agree with Jose. Give it a whirl.

The difference between the upper and lower grounding tabs, and what happens inside the column, is a bit of a mystery to me. I've never had to open a column up to see what makes it tick

Cheers
DD

Doug, I was looking at my '65 S type steering column and it is almost the same. I think Jaguar designed it back in the 1950s. The difference is that the old column has a wire through the inner shaft which is also semi hollow. The XJ has the plastic contact instead.

Thats the original alarm system that came with the jag hahah Need to take it to a radio dude to use the existing wiring and install a new alarm

Hi Jose

So as i was feeling way better i took to under the car. I took off the horns, cleaned the contacts, took the relay out, cleaned the contacts.

I know the LOW horn is not working but the high works for sure as I did the "old" stick then direct to the battery trick.

I then re-grounded the purple wire under the stearing wheel to the the upper part of the column to the un broken connection.

NOW when i turn on the ignition the horn blows !!!!!! YAAA! But not so fast!!!! Now it does not stop honking!!!! boooooooo!

If i move the ground to the original broken connection it does the same thing. Constant horn.

Well at least i got it to honk, Something i have never heard before.

Any ideas what it could be NOW?? May i have put back a connection in its wrong spot in the relay?????

Many thanks!!!

the purple wire is not a ground wire,
it is a positive wire I think.

It looks now as if the original reason for the damage done was that the horns got stuck.

so it could be a bad relay or bad connection at the horn push as Doug said.

to confirm the horn push connection, you need to remove the horn push to look behind it.

when I installed a MOMO steering wheel years ago, I had to do some re-wiring at the horn pushes because it has 3 points to honk the horns. But basically if the Nardi only has the center push, and it makes contact with the plastic and brass horn extension, then the problem is not there. It is with the purple wire. I do not know where that purple wire ends.

Yes, check relay connections

Terminal 85 - green wire ('key on' voltage)
Terminal 86 - purple/black (ground from horn button)
Terminal 87 - purple/yellow (voltage output to horns)
Terminal 30 - brown/purple (constant voltage)

If that checks out Ok then I'd remove the horn button. If the horn goes silent then you have a problem in that area. If the horn is still honking then you you have a problem with the grounding fingers, or somehow related to the grounding fingers.....possibly to the contact rings in the column falling out of position.

Cheers
DD

Unfortunately, I suspect the PO undid the ground at the base of the column for a reason . Continous and unwanted toot . Deep in the column or related to the Nardi installation.

Carl. ,

Hi Jose

Hmmm interesting. I tested both the column contacts broken and not broken and both show up as ground. Also i originally had the purple on one of the contacts and could hear the relay flip.

Removed the horn push and i still get a horn!

Argghhhh!!